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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 09 Aug 2018, 08:18

If you wish to persist in your interpretation of the result Jack I would point out that under your rules a majority of the electorate did not vote to be in the EEC in 1975.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ranchi » 09 Aug 2018, 08:29

We didn’t vote in the election and it wasn’t due to apathy. We had a seven day cruise booked on the west coast. Include a day to travel there and a day back, so we were away from home for 9 days. We applied for a postal vote and assumed that all would run smoothly. About a week before we were due to travel we still had not heard anything. We went in to our local council offices and were told that postal voting forms would be delivered on or after 16th of the month. Great. We left home on the 15th and returned on the 24th. While I realise that our two votes would not have made a difference in our area I was appalled at a system which is so inflexible. We were offered the opportunity of a proxy vote but it was not viable.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 09 Aug 2018, 08:42

Jack Staff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 23:18
Onelife wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 22:09
Jack Staff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 20:17
oldbluefox wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 20:10
Nice ploy - change the subject. Don't let facts get in the way of fiction.
err, I have no idea what you are on about now.
The majority disagree with you? :)
The 'majority' can do what they like, it doesn't change the fact that only 26.7% of the population or 17,410,742 people voted to leave, and that is not a majority of the people.

That is living in the past, 2016. I know you wish to take us back further.
By your interpretation Jack every election and government we have ever had should be invalid, since none of them ever exceeded 50% of the population in their favour.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 09 Aug 2018, 12:02

No wonder you guys fell for all the Brexit lies if you can not (or simply won't) accept that 17 million people are not the 'the people'.

How many more times do you need this explaining, I'm not talking about your precious vote, except that it indicated that Brexiters were only ever one in four people.
Jack Staff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 19:02
oldbluefox wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 18:59
The fact is we had a referendum. Everybody who was eligible to vote had the opportunity to vote for their preferred option. The Leave vote won, the Remain vote lost and no matter which way you try to manipulate the figures, no matter what excuses you come up with the plain fact is you lost the vote, a fact many Remainers struggle to accept. You lost because fewer voters voted to remain than to leave. And that Jack is the plain truth.
I have no problem with that.
You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 09 Aug 2018, 12:42

Jack Staff wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 12:02
No wonder you guys fell for all the Brexit lies if you can not (or simply won't) accept that 17 million people are not the 'the people'.

How many more times do you need this explaining, I'm not talking about your precious vote, except that it indicated that Brexiters were only ever one in four people.

The outcome happened because people did not believe the lies put out by Project Fear. How many more times do we have to tell you, no matter how you massage the figures you lost? Stop making excuses.
Jack Staff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 19:02
oldbluefox wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 18:59
The fact is we had a referendum. Everybody who was eligible to vote had the opportunity to vote for their preferred option. The Leave vote won, the Remain vote lost and no matter which way you try to manipulate the figures, no matter what excuses you come up with the plain fact is you lost the vote, a fact many Remainers struggle to accept. You lost because fewer voters voted to remain than to leave. And that Jack is the plain truth.
I have no problem with that.
You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all.
"I have no problem with that"
"You do the reputation of Brexiters no good at all"
Make your mind up Jack. To be honest I don't care less what Remainers think of me. I am looking forward to the day when we are free from the shackles of this carbuncle of an institution.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 09 Aug 2018, 12:52

So you still can't get it. Never mind, let's leave that for now.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by david63 » 09 Aug 2018, 13:01

The majority of the "population" did not vote for Brexit - fact.

The majority who voted in the referendum did vote for Brexit - fact.

The argument should be whether the voting system is fair. Under the current system there would have only needed one person to vote (one way or the other) and everyone else be apathetic and not vote and that one vote would have carried the decision.

Arguably the result of a referendum should be 50% + 1 of the electorate - but it's not and we are stuck with the system that we have.

Don't blame the people for the system.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 09 Aug 2018, 13:09

Jack Staff wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 12:52
So you still can't get it. Never mind, let's leave that for now.
Not quite sure what we don't get Jack, if you want us to agree that only 17.4 m voted to leave out of a voting population of 44m, then I believe we have alreay accepted this. What you don't seem to be willing to accept is that under the rules of the referendum this resulted in a win for the leave voters, regardless that this was less than 50% of those entitled to vote, and even less against the total population.
Last edited by towny44 on 09 Aug 2018, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 09 Aug 2018, 13:10

david63 wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 13:01
The majority of the "population" did not vote for Brexit - fact.

The majority who voted in the referendum did vote for Brexit - fact.

The argument should be whether the voting system is fair. Under the current system there would have only needed one person to vote (one way or the other) and everyone else be apathetic and not vote and that one vote would have carried the decision.

Arguably the result of a referendum should be 50% + 1 of the electorate - but it's not and we are stuck with the system that we have.

Don't blame the people for the system.
David, Thank you for explaining better than my attempts.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 10 Aug 2018, 09:57

Golden Princess wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 20:42
… It was the comment by a mod ""I post on the Brexit Topic from time to time and NOTHING is, nor ever has been, at the personal level … "
One of mine of course …

As a Member I posted this in response to ' Gill ' and the context was to advise that Members who are Remainers are NOT attacked at the personal level … as indeed they are not.

Your reference to a n other posting … which will not be re-quoted.

The ' Team ' will remove anything and everything that breaks the rules but as often is the case it is necessary to remove related and innocent postings to prevent the matter getting out of hand.

For me the incident is closed, how it was dealt with is not for public consumption.

Regards MobyMod

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 10:58

Just in case you've missed this.

Everything I've seen over the last few days suggests public opinion is turning on Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-remain

If Remain was Project Fear, then Leave was Project Fantasy.

Truth is none of us really knew what would happen. Two years down the line the reality is becoming more apparant. When the actual deal (or no deal) is known perhaps we do need anther vote, as there'll be something tangible to vote for or against.
Gill


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 12 Aug 2018, 11:29

:thumbup: Yes Gill let us have another vote but this time we can introduce project REALITY to fear and fantasy.

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 11:38

Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 11:47

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 11:38
Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.
Thank goodness you can always blame the messenger to give you a straw to clutch at.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 12 Aug 2018, 12:17

Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 12:23

Predictions so far have been wrong so where's the difference?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 12 Aug 2018, 13:13

Ray Scully wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 12:17
Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257
"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times

Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 12 Aug 2018, 13:38

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 13:13
Ray Scully wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 12:17
Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257
"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times

Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years


Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden

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Re: Brexit

Post by david63 » 12 Aug 2018, 13:48

The interesting thing in the Guardian report is the "swing" in Labour voters.

I have thought for a long time now that the "Labour" vote influenced the Referendum in that many traditional Labour voters saw Remain as a Conservative policy and being Labour had to vote the opposite way. This was not helped by Jeremy Corben appearing to be somewhat apathetic about the whole thing. Had JC gone round the country standing shoulder to shoulder with DC I think that the outcome would have been significantly different.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 14:16

Ray Scully wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 13:38
Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden
"British food supplies would be exhausted by Aug. 7, 2019, if the country ate only its own products from Jan. 1, the National Farmers’ Union said Tuesday, highlighting the U.K.’s reliance on imports from the European Union and other regions. The group called for the government to prioritize food security in Brexit negotiations."
Jack Staff wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 17:29
Here's some good Brexit news - We won't starve before August 2019!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rmers-warn?
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 12 Aug 2018, 14:30

Ray Scully wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 13:38
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 13:13
Ray Scully wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 12:17
Project FEAR or a touch of REALITY? take your pick

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -m7cbfb257
"Senior executives from some of the big four supermarkets made the alarming prediction in briefings to the Treasury on the impact on food prices of a no-deal Brexit.

The biggest tariffs on imports from the EU could include cheese, up by 44%, beef, up by 40%, and chicken, up 22%"

Sunday Times


Hopefully this will mean less EU subsidies and more home produced products .....something our farmers have been paid not to do for years


Have they the capacity to pick up the shortfall? I can see the Mail headline SMELLY COWS at the bottom of my garden
There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.
Last edited by Onelife on 12 Aug 2018, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 14:34

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 14:30

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.
Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 12 Aug 2018, 16:31

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 14:34
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 14:30

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.
Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?

Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?


Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 16:33

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 11:38
Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.
I see the new editor of the Daily Mail is going to change the paper’s stance to ‘let’s have the least damaging possible’ Brexit.

You know somethings up when even the Mail admits that ANY Brexit will be damaging!
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 16:41

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 14:34
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 14:30

There was a time when we used to produce more than 70% of home produced products in this country the rest being more difficult to grow thus imported.

With new farming technology we have the means to produce far more fruit cultivated crops such as oranges and lemons, bananas etc, but perhaps not in the numbers required.
Is this the same new technology that is going to solve the Irish border issue?

Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?


Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.
Ireland are part of the EU. Any agreement has to be approved by the 27 EU countries. Ireland can’t just go it alone and make an agreement with us. You are basically calling for no deal and all the problems that people are worried that’ll cause.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 16:47

david63 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 13:48
The interesting thing in the Guardian report is the "swing" in Labour voters.

I have thought for a long time now that the "Labour" vote influenced the Referendum in that many traditional Labour voters saw Remain as a Conservative policy and being Labour had to vote the opposite way. This was not helped by Jeremy Corben appearing to be somewhat apathetic about the whole thing. Had JC gone round the country standing shoulder to shoulder with DC I think that the outcome would have been significantly different.
I agree. I think a lot of people thought their Leave vote was a vote against the government or against the establishment. Corbyn was only ever luke warm about Remain. Not surprising really as he’s turned out to be a hard core Brexiter.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 16:56

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 11:47
oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 11:38
Thank goodness you can always rely on The Guardian to give you a straw to clutch at.
Thank goodness you can always blame the messenger to give you a straw to clutch at.
It’s a shame there isn’t a ‘like’ button on this forum. Have a thumbs up instead :thumbup:
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 18:02

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?
I admire the simplicity of Brexity thinking. Shame it doesn't stand up to reality.
There has to be two borders. Theirs and ours.

They will do what they have to do, following our decision to leave.

We HAVE to have a border to be able to be able to trade under the unelected bureaucrats of the WTO.
But, if we have a border we...
Break the Good Friday Agreement - to which we are legally bound.
Our sovereign Parliament has made it illegal to place a border there.

Or we just stay in the Customs Union.

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.
Please explain how they are bullying us? They are just enforcing the law or agreements we have made. All perfectly clear before June 2016, but was then described as 'project fear' by the Brexity press.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 12 Aug 2018, 18:19

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:02
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?
I admire the simplicity of Brexity thinking. Shame it doesn't stand up to reality.
There has to be two borders. Theirs and ours.

They will do what they have to do, following our decision to leave.

We HAVE to have a border to be able to be able to trade under the unelected bureaucrats of the WTO.
But, if we have a border we...
Break the Good Friday Agreement - to which we are legally bound.
Our sovereign Parliament has made it illegal to place a border there.

Or we just stay in the Customs Union.

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.
Please explain how they are bullying us? They are just enforcing the law or agreements we have made. All perfectly clear before June 2016, but was then described as 'project fear' by the Brexity press.
Jack, I know you would like to ensure that things remain as they are, which is why you constantly keep quoting EU rules as though they were the holy grail, but we voted to leave which changes everything, so please accept the new situation and learn to live in the real world, not the remainers dubious worship of their EU nirvana.
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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 18:27

Gill W wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 16:11
What good news? Please post some. (it doesn't count if its anything from the Mail or Express)
[/quote]
Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:33
I see the new editor of the Daily Mail is going to change the paper’s stance to ‘let’s have the least damaging possible’ Brexit.

You know somethings up when even the Mail admits that ANY Brexit will be damaging!
Does that count by your own reckoning? :think: :think:

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 18:37

towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:19
Jack, I know you would like to ensure that things remain as they are, which is why you constantly keep quoting EU rules as though they were the holy grail, but we voted to leave which changes everything, so please accept the new situation and learn to live in the real world, not the remainers dubious worship of their EU nirvana.
International law.
On the GFA the US is also a signatory.

If you are saying any agreements we made with the EU are no longer applicable, because we just decided, then any countries that we wish to have a (trade) agreement with in future are rightly going to think we are untrustworthy.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 18:49

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:37
If you are saying any agreements we made with the EU are no longer applicable, because we just decided, then any countries that we wish to have a (trade) agreement with in future are rightly going to think we are untrustworthy.
I sometimes wonder where you get these ideas Jack. How do you know what other countries will be thinking bearing in mind we have voted to exit the EU, with or without an agreement? Isn't that what the Brexit talks are looking to resolve?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 18:52

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:49
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:37
If you are saying any agreements we made with the EU are no longer applicable, because we just decided, then any countries that we wish to have a (trade) agreement with in future are rightly going to think we are untrustworthy.
I sometimes wonder where you get these ideas Jack. How do you know what other countries will be thinking bearing in mind we have voted to exit the EU, with or without an agreement? Isn't that what the Brexit talks are looking to resolve?
From John. He said " but we voted to leave which changes everything" as though we can now do anything we want to try and get to the fantasy 'sunlit uplands'. I'm just pointing out it takes two to trade deal.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 19:14

Of course it does,I agree on that, but if a trade deal with the EU cannot be struck I don't see why UK could be considered untrustworthy in the eyes of other countries.
I am getting the impression from the Remain camp that UK are totally incapable of doing anything without relying on the apron strings of the EU. I believe we are much more capable than that and continuing to subordinate ourselves to the whims and wishes of Barnier & Co does us no favours at all. Naturally many politicians and civil servants who are hoping to extend their careers with a lucrative job inside the EU will oppose Brexit, as will the likes of Mandelson who will be picking up a tidy pension and many civil servants who have been able to delegate responsibility to the EU but unless you live in the more affluent areas there is nothing to commend the EU to the general populace.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 19:27

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 19:14
Of course it does,I agree on that, but if a trade deal with the EU cannot be struck I don't see why UK could be considered untrustworthy in the eyes of other countries.
I am getting the impression from the Remain camp that UK are totally incapable of doing anything without relying on the apron strings of the EU. I believe we are much more capable than that and continuing to subordinate ourselves to the whims and wishes of Barnier & Co does us no favours at all. Naturally many politicians and civil servants who are hoping to extend their careers with a lucrative job inside the EU will oppose Brexit, as will the likes of Mandelson who will be picking up a tidy pension and many civil servants who have been able to delegate responsibility to the EU but unless you live in the more affluent areas there is nothing to commend the EU to the general populace.
Because John said "but we voted to leave which changes everything", that we can just rip up agreements on a whim (I assume that's what he meant). Hence other countries, when we are not tied to the "apron strings of the EU" will think twice.

We did not have any trade negotiators before Brexit, as we did not need them. Who is paying their wages now???

You Obviously did not read that Gwardian piece. It is mainly Labour constituencies that have swapped to Remain.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 12 Aug 2018, 20:02

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:02
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Hi Jack,


The way l see things (bearing in mind that I'm a little short sighted) is that the whole issue of the boarder between n and s is in fact being blown out of all proportion.....There never will be a hard boarder, the reason being....who the hell is going to enforce it? Who cares if the EU try to impose regulations? at the end of the day we don't  want a hard boarder neither dose North n South Ireland...who is going to make them do it?
I admire the simplicity of Brexity thinking. Shame it doesn't stand up to reality.
There has to be two borders. Theirs and ours.

They will do what they have to do, following our decision to leave.

We HAVE to have a border to be able to be able to trade under the unelected bureaucrats of the WTO.
But, if we have a border we...
Break the Good Friday Agreement - to which we are legally bound.
Our sovereign Parliament has made it illegal to place a border there.

Or we just stay in the Customs Union.

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:31
Sooner or latter the EU will realise that they can't use bully tactics over things they have no control over...We want to control our own destiny, with them or without them, and we will.
Please explain how they are bullying us? They are just enforcing the law or agreements we have made. All perfectly clear before June 2016, but was then described as 'project fear' by the Brexity press.
There are in fact three boarders regarding Ireland, theirs, ours and that of the EU....If Ireland as a whole wish to stay within the EU and in doing so wish to break away from the rest of the UK then there'll be no issue with their boarders, apart from their "massive export market to the UK" which would need to be negotiated...as an aside, l hope they honour their referendum better than what the remainers have done this side of the water.

Of course I wouldn't like to see this happen but at the end of the day stark choices are going to have to made over the coming months if solutions can't be found.

As for bulling us.....The tactics of the EU have been to back us into a corner with the sole intention of trying to soften us up.....that is what l call bullying!!.

It's only been the last month or so that the EU have entered into any meaningful negotiations.....and you wonder why things haven't  gone smoothly?

The world is a changing Jack...just make sure you stock up that freezer... we could have a few harsh years ahead of us. However, rest assured the  'sunlit uplands' are there Jack....we'll just have to climb a few mountains before we get there.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 20:37

Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 20:02
There are in fact three boarders regarding Ireland, theirs, ours and that of the EU....
Ireland is the EU is Ireland. There is only one there, just like the EU border at Heathrow.
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 20:02
If Ireland as a whole wish to stay within the EU and in doing so wish to break away from the rest of the UK then there'll be no issue with their boarders, apart from their "massive export market to the UK" which would need to be negotiated...as an aside, l hope they honour their referendum better than what the remainers have done this side of the water.
So do I, they voted to remain.
Leave 44.2% Remain 55.8%.
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 20:02
Of course I wouldn't like to see this happen but at the end of the day stark choices are going to have to made over the coming months if solutions can't be found.

As for bulling us.....The tactics of the EU have been to back us into a corner with the sole intention of trying to soften us up.....that is what l call bullying!!.
Any examples? All I've seen is our PM being bullied by her own party.
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 20:02
It's only been the last month or so that the EU have entered into any meaningful negotiations.....and you wonder why things haven't  gone smoothly?
It's only in the last month that we have had a (unworkable) plan for the EU to react to.
Onelife wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 20:02
The world is a changing Jack...just make sure you stock up that freezer... we could have a few harsh years ahead of us. However, rest assured the  'sunlit uplands' are there Jack....we'll just have to climb a few mountains before we get there.
Jacob Rees-Mogg says fifty years. My freezer isn't that big and anyway, I will be dead before then. So I will never see any of the Brexity benefits even if they weren't a fantasy.
Last edited by Jack Staff on 12 Aug 2018, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 21:05

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 18:27
Gill W wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 16:11
What good news? Please post some. (it doesn't count if its anything from the Mail or Express)
Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 16:33
I see the new editor of the Daily Mail is going to change the paper’s stance to ‘let’s have the least damaging possible’ Brexit.

You know somethings up when even the Mail admits that ANY Brexit will be damaging!
Does that count by your own reckoning? :think: :think:
[/quote]

I specifically said GOOD news.

If we’ve got to the point where even the Mail has the stance that any Brexit is damaging, then that’s the very opposite of good news.

So, yes, it does count.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Aug 2018, 21:46

Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 12 Aug 2018, 21:51

Jack

So do I, they voted to remain.
Leave 44.2% Remain 55.8%.

I was referring to a referendum should they wish to leave the uk.

As for the rest...I've got a freezer to fill :)

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 22:08

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:46
Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 12 Aug 2018, 22:41

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:08
oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:46
Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
John

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 22:50

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:46
Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.
Does it really matter that much to you?

I can’t be bothered to get a long running conversation about something so minor, so if you think it’s contradictory, fine.

I’d rather get on with trying to understand why some Brexiters seem to think that leaving the EU with no deal is fine, and want to proceed whatever the consequences

I’ve been on Twitter too, not just on here, and I’m still completely flummoxed. I know agreement is too much to hope for, but at least on this small forum I’d hope for some sort of mutual understanding.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Aug 2018, 22:58

towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:41
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:08
oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:46
Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
I said in my last post that I’m still flummoxed by the Brexiter mindset. I think you are saying that the break up of the UK isn’t too high a price to pay for Brexit. Wow.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 12 Aug 2018, 23:03

Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:58
towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:41
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:08
oldbluefox wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:46
Discounting the positives from the Mail and Express but latching on to any perceived negative seems to me selective, if not contradictory.
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
I said in my last post that I’m still flummoxed by the Brexiter mindset. I think you are saying that the break up of the UK isn’t too high a price to pay for Brexit. Wow.
Gill, I am saying that it would not be the financial, nor indeed the political calamity that Jack seems to imply.
John

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Aug 2018, 23:28

towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 23:03
Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:58
towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:41
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:08
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
I said in my last post that I’m still flummoxed by the Brexiter mindset. I think you are saying that the break up of the UK isn’t too high a price to pay for Brexit. Wow.
Gill, I am saying that it would not be the financial, nor indeed the political calamity that Jack seems to imply.
I can only echo Gill. WOW
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 13 Aug 2018, 08:52

towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 23:03
Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:58
towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:41
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:08
Which are?

Keith,
Sorry, misunderstood you. But if NI go, so will Scotland. - and I wouldn't put any money on Wales staying either. England ends up as Billy no mates.
Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
I said in my last post that I’m still flummoxed by the Brexiter mindset. I think you are saying that the break up of the UK isn’t too high a price to pay for Brexit. Wow.
Gill, I am saying that it would not be the financial, nor indeed the political calamity that Jack seems to imply.
Do you mean Brexit (especially a no deal Brexit) wouldn’t be a financial or political calamity? (more than just Jack are saying that)

Or do you mean the break up of the U.K. wouldn’t be a calamity?

Or both.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 13 Aug 2018, 09:14

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45165222

With the news that passport control queues reached a wait time of 2.5 hours for non EEA visitors, just wondering how Border Control will cope post Brexit (especially a non deal Brexit). Presumably, only U.K. citizen passport holders will be able to use the automatic passport readers and everyone else will join the queue, as free movement of people will come to an abrupt end.

Also wondering what will happen if we want to visit an EU country. Will agreements be in place in time for us to enter the EU or Schengen area. In the event of a no deal all current arrangements will end.

I did read that Schengen are thinking of an ESTA type system at some point, so I think, ultimately we’ll have to get pre authorised to travel, and pay for it of course.

But in the short term I think there could be a lot of disruption to travel - which would affect us as cruisers, visiting multiple countries in a short space of time.
Gill

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Aug 2018, 09:18

"The immediate consequences of a “no deal” Brexit in March could be worse for the European Union than for Britain, senior Brussels figures have said".
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-d ... -9m0g7nr98
Be better all round if a deal could be struck then. Tell Barnier to stop b*****ing around and negotiate instead of dismissing everything out of hand.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 13 Aug 2018, 09:24

Gill W wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 08:52
towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 23:03
Gill W wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:58
towny44 wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 22:41

Whoopee, they have been millstones round our necks for far too long. We will no longer have to twist businessmen's arms to get them to relocate to these outposts, and they will no longer receive disproportionate subsidies from Westminster. I cannot see any downside at all in that Jack.
I said in my last post that I’m still flummoxed by the Brexiter mindset. I think you are saying that the break up of the UK isn’t too high a price to pay for Brexit. Wow.
Gill, I am saying that it would not be the financial, nor indeed the political calamity that Jack seems to imply.
Do you mean Brexit (especially a no deal Brexit) wouldn’t be a financial or political calamity? (more than just Jack are saying that)

Or do you mean the break up of the U.K. wouldn’t be a calamity?

Or both.
Gill, that comment was in response to Jack's about the potential split up of the UK, so not specifically related to any other effects of a no deal Brexit. However I do not envisage any break up of the UK since I do not foresee any of the parliaments of the junior three being stupid enough to divorce the goose that keeps them in golden eggs.
John

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