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Ray B
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Ray B »

Watching footage of fighting at petrol stations from car cams, it just shows how quickly law and order could break down in a disaster situation.
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david63
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Post by david63 »

Let's start some more panic buying https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58721085

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Kendhni
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Post by Kendhni »

I am still laughing that, of all the things people could panic buy, they decided that toilet rolls were the most important.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Ranchi »

I did wonder about the role of the media in the turmoil talking place on petrol station forecourts when shock of shocks, this appeared in today’s press:

FUEL CRISIS
Irn-Bru warns of disruption from supply chain turmoil
Hannah Boland
IRN-BRU is at risk of running short on supermarket shelves after the drink’s producer warned that deliveries had been hit by the petrol crisis and turmoil in the supply chain.

Fortunately the report by Fr Dermot of Buckfast, that they too were on the brink reporting shortages in the coming week but customers shouldn’t panic buy, was suppressed.
Last edited by Ranchi on 29 Sep 2021, 08:49, edited 1 time in total.

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screwy
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by screwy »

All this just goes to show the media’s role in panic buying.
Two weeks ago nobody new of ‘reputed ‘ shortage of tanker drivers, I still don’t believe this because the companies aren’t advertising vacancies.Everone just went about their normal daily routine,until the media / RHA put out the message that shortages may occur. Now allegedly the industry knew this months ago but everything was fine,possibly a few forecourts would be closed for a few days but drivers would just go to the next garage.It’s not just the Beeb all media outlets are to blame.
Last edited by screwy on 29 Sep 2021, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by barney »

I saw on breakfast news a chap complaining that he couldn’t get staff at his Turkey farm due to Brexit.
One of the presenters asked him where he actually advertised because she’d tried to find out how to get a job there but despite scouring every avenue, couldn’t find any vacancies.
She then called his company to ask about vacancies but the office didn’t know of any but suggested she email.
So she did, but got no reply.
She told the company owner that she’d be happy to work at his business for a few days to see the reality of the working conditions.
He did invite her down.

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Re: Current Affairs

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Why is it always the Governments fault when companies cannot run their businesses and plan ahead for foreseeable problems?

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david63 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:34 Why is it always the Governments fault when companies cannot run their businesses and plan ahead for foreseeable problems?
I said exactly the same thing David.
It's been five years since the vote to leave the EU.
There has been a shortage of HGV drivers all across Europe for years.
Why has the industry let the situation ride.
Well, it's quite obvious to me.
They have got fat on the exploitation of under paid foreign labour.
Now, the chickens are coming home to roost and they haven't prepared.

I was reading an article in the Guardian this morning about the exploitation of eastern European migrants in the Irish meat processing business.
Bulgarian, Lithuanian and Romanian workers finding out too late that they don't actually work for the company but actually for a Polish agency, thus reducing their rights.
This is all so McDonalds can sell really cheap meal deals to already over weight people.

The globalists have an awful lot to answer for.
Most of the worst exploitation is in EU countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t-industry
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t-exporter
Last edited by barney on 29 Sep 2021, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

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screwy
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by screwy »

All I know is that non of this would happen under a Labour or Lie Dim government, so they say.
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Mervyn and Trish
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david63 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:34 Why is it always the Governments fault when companies cannot run their businesses and plan ahead for foreseeable problems?
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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david63 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:34 Why is it always the Governments fault when companies cannot run their businesses and plan ahead for foreseeable problems?
To be fair many companies had been asking the government what form brexit would take for many years ('what does brexit actually mean to us?' was probably one of the most common questions coming from private industry) ... unfortunately the government didn't have a clue itself and jumped from flavour of brexit to another to another depending on which way the wind was blowing. Even towards the end of 2019 the CBI and many other organizations (including transport) were continually asking for clarification as to what they needed to do to prepare for brexit ... the government refused to provide any meaningful detail (apart from the odd sound bite).

Private companies are not like the civil service which simply mops up the unemployable so that they have an abundance of wastrels to do yet more worthless paper pushing at the drop of a hat. In private industry people have to justify their role.
Last edited by Kendhni on 29 Sep 2021, 12:50, edited 2 times in total.

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OK Brexit may be a contributing factor, as is Covid, but from what I have been reading the problems in the haulage industry have been festering for many years before Brexit and been known about but nothing was done.

I was reading this morning about Next who are suggesting that they will be having problems with the warehouse/logistics staff - and this is from someone who was pro Brexit.

Surely if you run a business that relies on staff, irrespective of where they come from, you have contingency plans (Covid apart) for when those staff become unavailable. It may take a couple of weeks to get those plans up and running but at least there are some plans in place.

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In the old days it was incumbent on the employer to ensure they had adequate trained staff. Companies ran apprenticeships and management training schemes and recruited either from school or university, they did not rely on govt to ensure there was a regular flow of trained staff to fill skilled and senior staff roles.
We really need to get back to that style of management, and maybe there should be significant tax incentives to subsidise the best and penalise companies with the worst HR operations.
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You should have added Towny that replacing the "bean counters" with managers would be a start!

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Post by Kendhni »

david63 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 14:30 OK Brexit may be a contributing factor, as is Covid, but from what I have been reading the problems in the haulage industry have been festering for many years before Brexit and been known about but nothing was done.
There is no doubt about that. I remember a story during the Blair/Brown years (2005-ish) where, despite there being over 1 million unemployed, they were struggling to get lorry and bus drivers. So the big media kick-up of the day was that they advertised the jobs in Poland and recruited several hundred Polish drivers.
Surely if you run a business that relies on staff, irrespective of where they come from, you have contingency plans (Covid apart) for when those staff become unavailable. It may take a couple of weeks to get those plans up and running but at least there are some plans in place.
The problem was the total lack of clarity about what businesses had to prepare for. They were unwilling to invest millions in going down one route when it was equally likely that they may have to go down one of several different routes - if anything that lack of clarity slowed down the recruitment of drivers. COVID then became a mask for all things brexit and it is only

As an example, over 1:3 of those that I work with are not UK citizens (IT is generally are very cosmopolitan). I remember the company setting out policy to help them with paperwork and interviews, only to be told at the last minute that the process had totally changed and what they had done had just been a waste of time and money.

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Post by Kendhni »

towny44 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 15:31 In the old days it was incumbent on the employer to ensure they had adequate trained staff. Companies ran apprenticeships and management training schemes and recruited either from school or university, they did not rely on govt to ensure there was a regular flow of trained staff to fill skilled and senior staff roles.
We really need to get back to that style of management, and maybe there should be significant tax incentives to subsidise the best and penalise companies with the worst HR operations.
I agree with most of what you say, I am a huge fan of re-introducing on the job apprenticeships, but I think in this instance many lorry drivers are expected to come with the relevant licence ... I am sure some companies may provide the training but I think most look for people with the correct licence (accepting I could be wrong here).

Management is usually something where you work up through the ranks of one company to be promoted to an appropriate position and then lie through your teeth on your CV as you move around to better and better management positions. I find today that many seem to consider themselves management, or get promoted into that position, without proper skills ... been there done that, hated pushing spreadsheets and Powerpoints around a desk so I asked to go back into technical roles ... it was a period of my career I actually hated (not even sure I was a good manager).

Peters principle is very true ... you get promoted to your level of incompetence.

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Post by Gill W »

screwy wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:54 All I know is that non of this would happen under a Labour or Lie Dim government, so they say.
And if it happen under either of those governments, you can bet your life that this forum would be in the vanguard of those complaining about it ! :lol:
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Gill W wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 17:19
screwy wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:54 All I know is that non of this would happen under a Labour or Lie Dim government, so they say.
And if it happen under either of those governments, you can bet your life that this forum would be in the vanguard of those complaining about it ! :lol:
Strangely enough Gill with regard to issues like covid, the financial crisis or sudden shortages like the current petrol one, I am genuinely always sympathetic to the government of whichever colour.
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Post by Quizzical Bob »

david63 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:34 Why is it always the Governments fault when companies cannot run their businesses and plan ahead for foreseeable problems?
In your opinion, what should they have done?

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towny44 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 20:09
Gill W wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 17:19
screwy wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 11:54 All I know is that non of this would happen under a Labour or Lie Dim government, so they say.
And if it happen under either of those governments, you can bet your life that this forum would be in the vanguard of those complaining about it ! :lol:
Strangely enough Gill with regard to issues like covid, the financial crisis or sudden shortages like the current petrol one, I am genuinely always sympathetic to the government of whichever colour.
The trouble is, what’s happening now is not just one crisis, it’s a constant rolling procession of crises, one after the other, and the government is constantly reactive and never proactive. I’d be asking questions of any government of any party who got the country into the current state*

* I do ask the questions only not on this forum, as other forum members don’t like it.
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Gill W wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 20:58
towny44 wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 20:09
Gill W wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 17:19

And if it happen under either of those governments, you can bet your life that this forum would be in the vanguard of those complaining about it ! :lol:
Strangely enough Gill with regard to issues like covid, the financial crisis or sudden shortages like the current petrol one, I am genuinely always sympathetic to the government of whichever colour.
The trouble is, what’s happening now is not just one crisis, it’s a constant rolling procession of crises, one after the other, and the government is constantly reactive and never proactive. I’d be asking questions of any government of any party who got the country into the current state*

* I do ask the questions only not on this forum, as other forum members don’t like it.
I do very much prefer a pragmatic style of govt rather than a dogmatic one
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Kendhni »

Gill W wrote: 29 Sep 2021, 20:58 The trouble is, what’s happening now is not just one crisis, it’s a constant rolling procession of crises, one after the other, and the government is constantly reactive and never proactive. I’d be asking questions of any government of any party who got the country into the current state*
The reason behind that is that this government generally does not have a plan for anything it does ... it does something see how it goes down and then blunders onto the next thing. Sometimes their blunder works but often it has consequences that they have not panned for or have deliberately ignored. The problem with box tickers, like this government, is they are happy to accept anything in the belief that they can backtrack, uturn and break their word when it suits them.

The one thing that they did plan for was the vaccination program which proves that they can do it, it worked well, but in pretty much everything else they have touched the lack of a plan confirms the old 7 P's adage.

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Kendhni wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 07:45 The reason behind that is that this government generally does not have a plan for anything it does
Not really much different to any other Government in the past.

All Governments are between a rock and a hard place - if they set out their plan to do something and due to circumstances and/or unexpected events they have to change that plan then they are accused of doing a "u-turn" but if they try to retain a degree of flexibility over an issue by not giving precise details in advance they are accused of not having a plan.

Much of this is down to the current belief that everybody thinks that they have a right to know every minute detail of everybody else's life at all times.


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These clowns in Downing Street govern by focus group. That’s like steering a car by facing backwards and seeing where you have come from.

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Post by Gill W »

The thing I don’t get is that everyone else has to have a plan these days, except the government.

This is seen all the time. If Keir Starmer or any other politician not in government criticises the current government, they are expected to have a full plan for rectifying matters.

Likewise, any one else, whether in the media or on the Internet comments that things aren’t going well gets demands for their plans for what they’d do different.

Yet the people who should have plans, i.e. the government are either given a free pass because plans are ‘dogmatic’ or are permitted not to say anything about their plans just in case they have to change.

It’s a really odd state of affairs.
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Post by screwy »

And do you honestly believe it would be different under any other party.?
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What I find odd about these plans or no plans arguments, along with most other arguments over the govts handling of everything, is the impact the media play in these discussions.
Those on the left claim that the Daily Mail winds up those on the right with the way it cherry picks articles to push it's right wing agenda, but they seem blind to the way the left wing biased media, such as the Guardian and quite often the BBC, portray much of govt action as inept, subject to u turns, and cronyism.
I wonder why anyone, especially those on the right, would give up well paid jobs in the city, business or the media, and subject themselves to the abuse the left wing machine throws at them.
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towny44 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 10:03 I wonder why anyone, especially those on the right, would give up well paid jobs in the city, business or the media, and subject themselves to the abuse the left wing machine throws at them.
It's the lure of power coupled with a dose of self obsession ... seemples :thumbup:
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Sounds like on here :D

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Looks as if there will some good overtime coming up for some prison officers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58747614 - and even that is too good for him. If ever there was a case for the re-introduction of hanging he has just made it!

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screwy wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 10:00 And do you honestly believe it would be different under any other party.?
I don’t believe we’d be in such a bad state under any other government, whether Conservative, Labour or anyone else, We have a government of poor leadership and a dearth of talent.

Nothing’s ever perfect, but we have the worst possible government at the worst possible time.

Under a different government we may have had different outcomes.
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Gill W wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 13:15 Under a different government we may have had different outcomes.
Under a different Government we would almost certainly had different outcomes, but whether those outcomes would have been better or worse will be a matter of conjecture for years to come.

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Gill W wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 13:15
screwy wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 10:00 And do you honestly believe it would be different under any other party.?
I don’t believe we’d be in such a bad state under any other government, whether Conservative, Labour or anyone else, We have a government of poor leadership and a dearth of talent.

Nothing’s ever perfect, but we have the worst possible government at the worst possible time.

Under a different government we may have had different outcomes.
We voted against PR at this conference should Labour win power.
So, that's put the kybosh on that for the foreseeable future.

What I find fascinating is that so many natural Tory voters have thrown their toys out of the pram because of the way the Brexit vote went.
They forget that the Tories actually campaigned to remain but respected the democratic decision, as have Labour ..... eventually.

Personally, as you know, I'm certainly no Johnson fan.
I think that he wanted to be PM for the kudos.
He's wants to be an ex PM for the earning potential.
It's the bit in between that he's struggling with.

After watching Starmer yesterday, and obviously assuming he can keep the far left away, he will give Johnson a run for his money, come the next election.
I do however forecast, that I don't think Johnson will run again and his successor may prove more difficult.
Sunak or Truss must be favourites.
Truss has done very well at trade, overseeing all of those trade agreements that we were told would be impossible to do by the anti democrats.

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I just read that ironically the fuel companies now have too many drivers. More drivers than tankers to drive. They will,, it is reported, now be made to hire the governments fleet of reserve tankers rather than the army being called upon. Supports earlier reports from various sources that there never was a shortage of fuel or drivers, just a story hyped by the Road Haulage Association so they could get cheap foreign drivers back. Looks like the government were wise to that by limiting the special visa scheme.

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Mervyn and Trish wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 14:39 More drivers than tankers to drive.
That is no more than I would expect from a well run company. By having more drivers than tankers it means that a tanker will spend less time off the road.

Not sure what the drivers hours are for tankers but I would expect at least a two, if not three, drivers to one tanker ratio.

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Post by Mervyn and Trish »

But surely not to the extent that they don't have enough tankers to drive. And when the RHA has been claiming a driver shortage.

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As far as i'm aware and its a long time since i was on the road and things have changed slightly.
Under EU law and we still work under EU law for drivers hours, you can only drive for 9 hours ,this can be increased to 10 twice in a 5 day week
3 x 9
2 x10
there are lots of rules regarding working hours and break times.
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I have a feeling that in Tory circles Boris will be remembered as one of the most successful PMs we have had. He seems to arouse the same vitriolic dislike, I almost said hatred but changed my mind, in the minds of his detractors as did Margaret Thatcher, and after winning 3 general elections she is revered by the Tory faithful, unlike Tony Blair, Labour's only 3 time winner, who seems to be a pariah to large chunks of the Labour party.
Last edited by towny44 on 30 Sep 2021, 15:36, edited 1 time in total.
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towny44 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 15:34 I have a feeling that in Tory circles Boris will be remembered as one of the most successful PMs we have had. He seems to arouse the same vitriolic dislike, I almost said hatred but changed my mind, in the minds of his detractors as did Margaret Thatcher, and after winning 3 general she is revered by the Tory faithful, unlike Tony Blair, Labours only 3 time winner, who seems to be a pariah to large chunks of the Labour party.
Hope you have your tin hat handy...

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Mervyn and Trish wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 15:36
towny44 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 15:34 I have a feeling that in Tory circles Boris will be remembered as one of the most successful PMs we have had. He seems to arouse the same vitriolic dislike, I almost said hatred but changed my mind, in the minds of his detractors as did Margaret Thatcher, and after winning 3 general she is revered by the Tory faithful, unlike Tony Blair, Labours only 3 time winner, who seems to be a pariah to large chunks of the Labour party.
Hope you have your tin hat handy...
Quite likely Merv, although I have never been intimidated by people who rant and rave, and think that by shouting louder their opponents will eventually give in.
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david63 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 12:39 Looks as if there will some good overtime coming up for some prison officers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58747614 - and even that is too good for him. If ever there was a case for the re-introduction of hanging he has just made it!
When i left the service 5 yrs ago overtime was £17 an hour,gone up a bit now.
As some will know, i have always wanted the death penalty brought back. As for this case as Horrible as it was i have seen worse and dealt with some of the most evil people allowed to breath good air.
Last edited by screwy on 30 Sep 2021, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
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david63 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 12:39 Looks as if there will some good overtime coming up for some prison officers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58747614 - and even that is too good for him. If ever there was a case for the re-introduction of hanging he has just made it!
I wouldn’t think twice about ridding this piece of sh*t off the face of the earth but it would be far too easy a way out for him. I hope Screwy can assure me that his life will be hell behind bars because anything short of that is far more than he deserves.

I don’t mind saying that my eyes filled up when I read the parents victim statements…. its heartbreakingly painful to imagine what the family are going through.

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Post by screwy »

He will be on Suicide watch for quite some time,sometimes though they put on a show of not being arsed about the sentence which can be dangerous for staff, if not careful that’s when they suddenly top themselves.
He will be moved to a ‘Lifer’ centre in a Cat A prison somewhere in the country. His life will be made He’ll by other cons because he his not only a murderer but a Rapist. Deserves everything he gets.
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That's reassuring Screwy :thumbup: ....just a thought....if l supplied the petrol could you get one of your old work colleagues to start a small fire...preferably around his genitals? :thumbup: :clap:

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Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I guess being a cop also won't make his life inside any more comfortable.

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Send him some of your choccies Keith, adapted of course.

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Post by Kendhni »

Onelife wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 17:23
david63 wrote: 30 Sep 2021, 12:39 Looks as if there will some good overtime coming up for some prison officers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58747614 - and even that is too good for him. If ever there was a case for the re-introduction of hanging he has just made it!
I wouldn’t think twice about ridding this piece of sh*t off the face of the earth but it would be far too easy a way out for him.
I know someone who did take the law into his own hands after the police refused to do anything ... he served 5 years and now lives on the settee in his parents house (his wife and children want nothing to do with him). On the other hand, the perpetrator got compensation and will receive elevated benefits for rest of his life (due to the injuries caused).

So all he ended up doing was costing the tax payer a fortune
Last edited by Kendhni on 01 Oct 2021, 08:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Onelife
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Re: Current Affairs

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It sounds like his actions were out of proportion to the crime committed?

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Re: Current Affairs

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Stephen wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 07:45 Send him some of your choccies Keith, adapted of course.
Not sure they would get through the metal detector. .....keep sending the razor blades.I'll give it a go :thumbup:
Last edited by Onelife on 01 Oct 2021, 08:46, edited 1 time in total.

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