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Manoverboard
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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 02 Jun 2018, 13:54

… or … " Nonsense, lies and exaggeration "

Should we have a vote ?


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 02 Jun 2018, 13:56

Manoverboard wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 13:54
… or … " Nonsense, lies and exaggeration "

Should we have a vote ?
Will it take the form of a referendum ??? :thumbup: :angel:
Last edited by Ray Scully on 02 Jun 2018, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Jun 2018, 13:57

Manoverboard wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 13:54
… or … " Nonsense, lies and exaggeration "

Should we have a vote ?
That would be the democratic thing to do. https://www.peoples-vote.uk/
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 02 Jun 2018, 14:55

Once again I feel the need to correct your 'truth' Jack
The story of the change to EU legislation with reference to migrants undercutting wages was well covered in the UK press.
The Guardian actually ran it on the first page of their website.

Unfortunately too little, too late as far as the UK are concerned.

Even in Europe, there are serious doubts as to whether it can ever actually be enforced.
Similar to the EU ruling that any migrant who doesn't find work within three months can be removed. It has never actually happened to the best of my knowledge, anywhere.
https://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/v ... bby.679956

Freedom of movement has implications all over Europe.
The talent drain from some Eastern European countries has set them back a long way.
But as long a we have someone to make our Latte, it's all good eh!

We have a situation now that we could not have envisaged ten years ago and much of it is down to the refusal of the EU to change it's path, even slightly.
The rule makers in the EU have 100% bought into the project but the general population doesn't seem to.

The rise of populism doesn't seem to bother them. They plough on regardless.
Look what we have at the moment.
The UK has a populist left party that may well take power, led by a committed anti EU leader.
Italy has a populist right wing government.
Hungary has a populist right wing government
Poland have a populist right wing government.
Slovenia will shortly be electing a right wing populist party
France is led by a Europhobe with the second party RN being a right wing populist party.
The second party in Denmark are right wing populist.
Germany have a fragile coalition of centre right and left with third main opposition party being AFD right wing populits.

If you bothered to study it Jack, you would see that the rise of the (far) right is all across Europe.
Many of these parties are pretty anti Brussels.
The EU solution is ..... more EU.
Talk about head in the sand.

I was too young to vote in the '75 referendum but I have not come across one single person who has said that they fully understood the implication of that vote.
They were told that they were voting for a Common Market, not a political union.
I would go as far as to say that anyone who did vote in '75 and says that they knew what it meant long term is an outright liar.
History has absolutely proven that the text was buried so deeply, as to decieve the electorate.

So, in a nutshell, the UK voted to stay in , based on a huge lie.
The first opportunity it had to get out, it took it.

But the anti democrats simply cannot stand that they lost, so will do literrally anything to over turn the decision.
It is throwing up some very, very strange bed fellows

What will happen if there is another vote?
What if it's another 52/48 to leave?
Then what?
Do all the anti democrats go away?
What if it's a 52/48 to stay?
Does that over ride the original vote?

The world has gone well and truely bonkers.
And the really bonkers thing about it all is that some think it's normal and natural.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 02 Jun 2018, 17:07

I voted ' Yes ' in the 75 referendum but only for the single market … some years later it became clear that Ted Heath had lied threw his teeth to us but meanwhile the Governments of the day accepted the various Treaties that tied us to a Federalist State …. in the very beginning even Winston Churchill knew which way it would go but we didn't !!

Is my appreciation of events over the years.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 02 Jun 2018, 17:39

barney wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 14:55


I was too young to vote in the '75 referendum but I have not come across one single person who has said that they fully understood the implication of that vote.
They were told that they were voting for a Common Market, not a political union.
I would go as far as to say that anyone who did vote in '75 and says that they knew what it meant long term is an outright liar.
History has absolutely proven that the text was buried so deeply, as to decieve the electorate.

So Barney nothing changes, very few new what they were v0ting for, promoting, or the implications, sadly this is very evident when you consider the almost complete failure of Messrs Davies and Co to negotiate a way out which does not do great harm to our economy and massively weaken our worldwide influence.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Jun 2018, 17:54

No one voted for European union in 1975 as it was not created until 1992. Implemented by the John Major Conservative government.
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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 02 Jun 2018, 18:10

Jack Staff wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 17:54
No one voted for European union in 1975 as it was not created until 1992. Implemented by the John Major Conservative government.
But if you read some of the comments attributed to the EEC founding fathers you can see the way they envisaged it should develop, sadly none of this was made public in 1975 otherwise I hope I would have reconsidered the way I voted.
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 02 Jun 2018, 18:12

That is exactly my point Jack.cheers.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Jun 2018, 18:19

barney wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 18:12
That is exactly my point Jack.cheers.
I suggest you take that up with John Major in 1992 then.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Jun 2018, 18:27

towny44 wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 18:10
Jack Staff wrote:
02 Jun 2018, 17:54
No one voted for European union in 1975 as it was not created until 1992. Implemented by the John Major Conservative government.
But if you read some of the comments attributed to the EEC founding fathers you can see the way they envisaged it should develop, sadly none of this was made public in 1975 otherwise I hope I would have reconsidered the way I voted.
" If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can. " Winston 1946

"Whatever the economic arguments, the House will realise that, as I have repeatedly made clear, the Government’s purpose derives above all from our recognition that Europe is now faced with the opportunity of a great move forward in political unity and that we can — and indeed must — play our full part in it." Harold Wilson 1967

"Didn’t they hear Churchill say, “If Europe is to be a living force, Britain will have to play her full part as a member of the European family” Daily Mail June 1975

It was all public.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 02 Jun 2018, 18:42

The Logic of Brexit.

Leave a Free Trade Area to trade more freely

Leave trade agreements to get new trade agreements

Weaken influence to become stronger

Turn inward to be more global

Opt out by opting in

Welcome people by being hostile

Avoid customs checks by leaving a Customs Union

Keep access to the single market by leaving the single market

Maintain an invisible border by installing infrastructure

Cut red tape by adding to it

Boost investment by creating uncertainty

Boost jobs by reducing growth

Take responsibility by blaming others

Unite by creating divisions

Respect the Union by ignoring the wishes of its nations.

Enhance devolution by centralising power

Protect Consumers by reducing standards

Help workers by removing guarantees of rights

Put people first by making them poorer

Save the NHS by driving doctors and nurses away

Bolster public services by reducing tax-take

Keep the exact-same rights by removing some of them

Tackle environmental threats by leaving an environmental regulator

Ensure security by leaving security cooperation structures

Help farmers by stopping subsidies and making their markets harder to access

Help research by making funding and cooperation harder

Guarantee peace by undermining the GFA

Save money by recreating the present at substantial cost

Bring clarity by creating confusion

Replace reality with fantasy

Evidence with blind faith

Honesty with dishonesty

Policy with buII5h1t

Strategy with blagging

Possible with impossible

Leading with following

Richer with poorer

Sanity with insanity

The future with a non-existent past

:Steve Bullock
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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 02 Jun 2018, 19:50

:thumbup: and that Jack just about sums it up. bl**dy FRIGHTENING

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Re: Brexit

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 03 Jun 2018, 08:11

But it's what a majority of people voted for. A bigger majority than have elected a government in living memory. That's called democracy. Something events in Italy have demonstrated the EU and its believers have no time for.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 03 Jun 2018, 08:42

Jack, your Steve Bullock is not famous enough to be listed in Wikipedia, makes him less influential than an old Stockport county footballer! ;)
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Re: Brexit

Post by Kendhni » 03 Jun 2018, 10:07

To be honest I am not convinced that there should be another referendum, and definitely not at this stage. If there is another referendum then, unlike the last one, the government is going to have to be clear about what is on offer - so the electorate will be much better informed (something governments do not like when it comes to referendums and elections).

We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote but how will brexiteers vote - will they vote against something they did not want or would they continue to vote for it even if it looks like a bad deal, does not go far enough, goes too far or looks like an entire generation will struggle? Are people willing to admit that they were wrong or ill informed at the original referendum? unlikely.

I am not convinced a fair referendum could be created - the public are far too fickle

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 03 Jun 2018, 10:43

Almost two-thirds of Tory members don’t have confidence in the Government’s handling of Brexit.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetor ... rexit.html
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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 03 Jun 2018, 12:22

Kendhni wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 10:07
We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote
Really? :o


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 03 Jun 2018, 13:00

oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 12:22
Kendhni wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 10:07
We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote
Really? :o
Speaking with friends and acquaintances who voted leave, many now feel we are likely to end up with the worst possible scenario, namely accepting nearly all the rules of the EU but having little or no say.

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 03 Jun 2018, 13:42

Ray Scully wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 13:00
oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 12:22
Kendhni wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 10:07
We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote
Really? :o
Speaking with friends and acquaintances who voted leave, many now feel we are likely to end up with the worst possible scenario, namely accepting nearly all the rules of the EU but having little or no say.
That will be status quo then Ray since the EU took no notice of anything we said when we were in the club.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 03 Jun 2018, 13:58

towny44 wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 13:42
Ray Scully wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 13:00
oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 12:22
Kendhni wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 10:07
We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote
Really? :o
Speaking with friends and acquaintances who voted leave, many now feel we are likely to end up with the worst possible scenario, namely accepting nearly all the rules of the EU but having little or no say.
That will be status quo then Ray since the EU took no notice of anything we said when we were in the club.
Well John, that contradicts my understanding that GB virtually ran the show. :angel:

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 03 Jun 2018, 14:45

Ray Scully wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 13:00

Speaking with friends and acquaintances who voted leave, many now feel we are likely to end up with the worst possible scenario, namely accepting nearly all the rules of the EU but having little or no say.
Since Remainers are firmly in the pockets of the EU can we really be so surprised? :clap:

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 03 Jun 2018, 16:12

oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 14:45
Since Remainers are firmly in the pockets of the EU can we really be so surprised? :clap:
Jack Staff wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 12:32
... unlike the Quitters who are now just blaming everyone else and each other for the ongoing Brexit débâcle.
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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 03 Jun 2018, 16:21

Jack Staff wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 16:12
oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 14:45
Since Remainers are firmly in the pockets of the EU can we really be so surprised? :clap:
Jack Staff wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 12:32
... unlike the Quitters who are now just blaming everyone else and each other for the ongoing Brexit débâcle.
Who else would there be to blame..........................???
Meanwhile it appears Ken Clarke knows exactly what he wants for the country.................
quote-i-look-forward-to-the-day-when-the-westminster-parliament-is-just-a-council-chamber-kenneth-clarke-75-28-75.jpg
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 03 Jun 2018, 17:43

oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 12:22
Kendhni wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 10:07
We know how 48% of the voting population are likely to vote
Really? :o
I wouldn't count on it either. Some polls have suggested that having seen the increasing arrogance of the EU since the referendum there are remainers likely to change sides too.

It's a foolish politician who tries to second guess the ekectorate. As Call Me Dave and Ozzy Osborn. Utterly convinced they could cajole the British people into accepting their pathetic compromise with the EU that was worth as much as Mr Chamberlain's piece of paper. And look what happened to that pair of weasels.

I don't pretend to know what the outcome of a second vote would be either but noone should count their chickens.

BTW if a second poll did reverse the decision I presume the House of Lords would campaign for "best of three".

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 03 Jun 2018, 17:55

oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 16:21
Jack Staff wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 16:12
... unlike the Quitters who are now just blaming everyone else and each other for the ongoing Brexit débâcle.
Who else would there be to blame..........................???
er, the people who voted for it?
oldbluefox wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 16:21
Meanwhile it appears Ken Clarke knows exactly what he wants for the country.................
He said that in 1996! Not sure of the relevance to today, apart from the fact that he is someone who stands by his principles, unlike remain campaigner May for example.
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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 03 Jun 2018, 18:00

Mervyn and Trish wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 17:43
BTW if a second poll did reverse the decision I presume the House of Lords would campaign for "best of three".
I was actually wondering the same although we may not be allowed to use the 'advisory' excuse a second time. The Remainers might allow us to use one of theirs. :roll: :moresarcasm:

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 04 Jun 2018, 12:46

I reckon that folks could argue until the cows come home on this one and never agree.

So let's go back to a few actual basic facts and not he said, she said.

Jack, please feel free to contradict!

The sitting government of the day (Tory) in coalition said, vote for us and you will get a referendum on the matter.
A straight IN or Out vote.
So, people voted and they won a majority and formed a Government.

They then asked Parliament to vote on having a referendum and Parliament voted overwhelmingly for it.
So we had it and the 'wrong side' won. The PM resigned and a new PM was elected under Tory party rules.
Then some no mark from the City raised some money to challenge the Government on Article 50 saying that Parliament should vote on it.
Well, she won the court case, Parliament voted and agreed to start the leaving process.
So Article 50 was invoked and the UK was leaving the EU.

Since then, the world and his wife have tried to stop the process.

Surely anybody with any dignity, whether they agree with the results or not, must accept it.
Otherwise what is the whole point of voting?

I went to see the PM when he was speaking at Dover pre-ref.
He said to the audience and the cameras, a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market and customs union.
Of that there is absolute proof and no dispute. I know because I was there.

Just imagine if the nay sayers and anti democrats had have put as much effort into helping the UK leave instead of back stabbing and hindering at very opportunity. The country would be a very different place.

I fully apprciate the objections of those who don't want to leave but rather than trying to stop the democratic process, they should turn their efforts to winning the next general election and stand on a mandate of joining the EU.
That would be real democracy.


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 04 Jun 2018, 13:18

Barney the bottom line for any Government is the safety and economic well being of its citizens. I can't see either being best served by negotiating a deal which is to the disadvantage of UK Ltd, no matter how may times one repeats the most meaningless phrase so far conjured up this century "Brexit means Brexit"

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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 04 Jun 2018, 13:37

Ray Scully wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 13:18
Barney the bottom line for any Government is the safety and economic well being of its citizens. I can't see either being best served by negotiating a deal which is to the disadvantage of UK Ltd, no matter how may times one repeats the most meaningless phrase so far conjured up this century "Brexit means Brexit"
If you had followed that policy in 1940 then I imagine many politicians would have advocated negotiating a surrender to Germany and Hitler's Nazis. A good job Churchill did not fully agree with you Ray, despite the deaths and deprivations that resulted from his policies.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 14:00

towny44 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 13:37
If you had followed that policy in 1940 then I imagine many politicians would have advocated negotiating a surrender to Germany and Hitler's Nazis. A good job Churchill did not fully agree with you Ray, despite the deaths and deprivations that resulted from his policies.
Churchill fought against the right wing politics that was sweeping the continent at the time. That cancer is now in the UK.

He helped create 'Europe' to prevent those events happening again.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 14:02

barney wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 12:46
I fully apprciate the objections of those who don't want to leave but rather than trying to stop the democratic process, they should turn their efforts to winning the next general election and stand on a mandate of joining the EU.
That would be real democracy.
Don't worry Barney, those plans are already well in hand. ;)
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 04 Jun 2018, 14:18

Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:00
towny44 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 13:37
If you had followed that policy in 1940 then I imagine many politicians would have advocated negotiating a surrender to Germany and Hitler's Nazis. A good job Churchill did not fully agree with you Ray, despite the deaths and deprivations that resulted from his policies.
Churchill fought against the right wing politics that was sweeping the continent at the time. That cancer is now in the UK.

He helped create 'Europe' to prevent those events happening again.
I'd refer you to my earlier post.

The UK is one of the least 'right wing' countries in Europe.

I'd recommend some reading on the subject but doubt you could be bothered due to your Stockholm Syndrome.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 14:31

barney wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:18
I'd refer you to my earlier post.
The UK is one of the least 'right wing' countries in Europe.
Arguably, until the Conservatives absorbed the loonies from UKIP and basically all their policies (I know hospital parking charges are an exception).
barney wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:18
I'd recommend some reading on the subject but doubt you could be bothered due to your Stockholm Syndrome.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 04 Jun 2018, 14:41

Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:00
towny44 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 13:37
If you had followed that policy in 1940 then I imagine many politicians would have advocated negotiating a surrender to Germany and Hitler's Nazis. A good job Churchill did not fully agree with you Ray, despite the deaths and deprivations that resulted from his policies.
Churchill fought against the right wing politics that was sweeping the continent at the time. That cancer is now in the UK.

He helped create 'Europe' to prevent those events happening again.
And it was working exceptionally well as a free trade organisation, sadly the drive for federalism and creation of the Euro seems to me to have led the shift towards extreme right wing parties. In which case you ought to be happy that the UK is leaving the EU.
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 04 Jun 2018, 14:42

You can laugh all you like my old mate, but this organisation of which you are so desperate to remain shackled to, has plenty of problems.
https://www.politico.eu/article/populis ... oss-hairs/

Brexit seems to be the least of their problems at the moment.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nationa ... -new-name/
So, the second party in France is far right and the third party in Germany is far right and you compare that to UKIP ???
Bit of an own goal there Jack ;)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/ang ... far-right/
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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 04 Jun 2018, 14:58

Maybe we should re-phrase the whole question.
Let's pretend that we are a new country thinking about applying for entry.
Q. Would you like to join the EU?
A. Yes or No?


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Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 04 Jun 2018, 15:09

Well keyboard Don Quixote's It looks all over for you, according to current polling I would bet on an agreement to an almost seamless split with the EU
being accepted by the great British public

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 15:10

towny44 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:41
Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:00
towny44 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 13:37
If you had followed that policy in 1940 then I imagine many politicians would have advocated negotiating a surrender to Germany and Hitler's Nazis. A good job Churchill did not fully agree with you Ray, despite the deaths and deprivations that resulted from his policies.
Churchill fought against the right wing politics that was sweeping the continent at the time. That cancer is now in the UK.

He helped create 'Europe' to prevent those events happening again.
And it was working exceptionally well as a free trade organisation, sadly the drive for federalism and creation of the Euro seems to me to have led the shift towards extreme right wing parties. In which case you ought to be happy that the UK is leaving the EU.
'RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY' - Not very Churchillian.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 15:16

barney wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 14:42
You can laugh all you like my old mate, but this organisation of which you are so desperate to remain shackled to, has plenty of problems.
https://www.politico.eu/article/populis ... oss-hairs/

Brexit seems to be the least of their problems at the moment.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nationa ... -new-name/
So, the second party in France is far right and the third party in Germany is far right and you compare that to UKIP ???
Bit of an own goal there Jack ;)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/ang ... far-right/
I certainly can not deny that the far right are gaining ground at the moment. That is why it is up to all of us to stand up to this threat.
It will be difficult with people like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44352779
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Re: Brexit

Post by david63 » 04 Jun 2018, 16:18

Not sure why we are having all of this discussion.

I was reading only the other day that Barnier does not want to negotiate. OK just tell him we are going in March next year and taking all our money with us - end of, job done, simples

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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 04 Jun 2018, 16:36

david63 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 16:18
Not sure why we are having all of this discussion.

I was reading only the other day that Barnier does not want to negotiate. OK just tell him we are going in March next year and taking all our money with us - end of, job done, simples
:clap: :clap: :clap:

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 17:25

david63 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 16:18
Not sure why we are having all of this discussion.

I was reading only the other day that Barnier does not want to negotiate. OK just tell him we are going in March next year and taking all our money with us - end of, job done, simples
We could do that.

Indy Ref2 would then be successful.
United Kingdom would cease to be and the term Great Britain is then only valid as its' original geographical term for our island.
To stop civil war in NI and the governments failure to implement a border it unifies with the south.
Spain forces the issue to regain sovereignty of Gibraltar.
The Argies look on and think 'Perhaps now would be a good time....'

England then decides to rejoin the EU, but its' application is blocked by Scotland.

[Just the slight possibility of any of the above happening SHOULD be enough to stop any sane politician thinking twice about that option.]
Last edited by Jack Staff on 04 Jun 2018, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Brexit

Post by Mervyn and Trish » 04 Jun 2018, 17:58

Jack you really make Project Fear sound like a cheery lot.

Welcome back by the way. I assume your prolonged absence was due to some actual cruising. Looking forward to your reports.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 18:17

Mervyn and Trish wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 17:58
Jack you really make Project Fear sound like a cheery lot.

Welcome back by the way. I assume your prolonged absence was due to some actual cruising. Looking forward to your reports.
Thanks! Great to be back. You are quite correct, recently got back from a cruise around the Med, but I have to say I was disappointed not to bump into you on Oriana earlier in the year, as I thought you too might have taken the easy option rather than the Hurty Gurty route we discussed.
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Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 04 Jun 2018, 20:40

Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 17:25
david63 wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 16:18
Not sure why we are having all of this discussion.

I was reading only the other day that Barnier does not want to negotiate. OK just tell him we are going in March next year and taking all our money with us - end of, job done, simples
We could do that.

Indy Ref2 would then be successful.
United Kingdom would cease to be and the term Great Britain is then only valid as its' original geographical term for our island.
To stop civil war in NI and the governments failure to implement a border it unifies with the south.
Spain forces the issue to regain sovereignty of Gibraltar.
The Argies look on and think 'Perhaps now would be a good time....'

England then decides to rejoin the EU, but its' application is blocked by Scotland.

[Just the slight possibility of any of the above happening SHOULD be enough to stop any sane politician thinking twice about that option.]
You sound more paranoid than George Osborne...................... Fanciful but of course we all know none of this would happen.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 04 Jun 2018, 21:39

oldbluefox wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 20:40
Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 17:25

We could do that.

Indy Ref2 would then be successful.
United Kingdom would cease to be and the term Great Britain is then only valid as its' original geographical term for our island.
To stop civil war in NI and the governments failure to implement a border it unifies with the south.
Spain forces the issue to regain sovereignty of Gibraltar.
The Argies look on and think 'Perhaps now would be a good time....'

England then decides to rejoin the EU, but its' application is blocked by Scotland.

[Just the slight possibility of any of the above happening SHOULD be enough to stop any sane politician thinking twice about that option.]
You sound more paranoid than George Osborne...................... Fanciful but of course we all know none of this would happen.
I hope you are correct. I do believe that most Brexiters are not only nationalists, but some are also patriots and will realise the danger.

The talk of Irish reunification is rife. This will scare the DUP, bringing down the Conservatives - hung parliament, time to rethink, that problem temporarily solved.
Nicola however has been too quiet. She knows Scotland would leave a UK out of Europe. She is happy to see Brexit happen.
Why is no one talking about Gibraltar, because it is an acceptable price to pay for Brexit? I signed the petition for a Gibraltar MP last time I was there.

I'm not Mystic Meg, I have no idea which combination of events will actually happen. But I don't subscribe to the Brexiters blind faith of 'it will all be fine because we're British'.
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Re: Brexit

Post by towny44 » 04 Jun 2018, 22:45

Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 21:39
oldbluefox wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 20:40
Jack Staff wrote:
04 Jun 2018, 17:25

We could do that.

Indy Ref2 would then be successful.
United Kingdom would cease to be and the term Great Britain is then only valid as its' original geographical term for our island.
To stop civil war in NI and the governments failure to implement a border it unifies with the south.
Spain forces the issue to regain sovereignty of Gibraltar.
The Argies look on and think 'Perhaps now would be a good time....'

England then decides to rejoin the EU, but its' application is blocked by Scotland.

[Just the slight possibility of any of the above happening SHOULD be enough to stop any sane politician thinking twice about that option.]
You sound more paranoid than George Osborne...................... Fanciful but of course we all know none of this would happen.
I hope you are correct. I do believe that most Brexiters are not only nationalists, but some are also patriots and will realise the danger.

The talk of Irish reunification is rife. This will scare the DUP, bringing down the Conservatives - hung parliament, time to rethink, that problem temporarily solved.
Nicola however has been too quiet. She knows Scotland would leave a UK out of Europe. She is happy to see Brexit happen.
Why is no one talking about Gibraltar, because it is an acceptable price to pay for Brexit? I signed the petition for a Gibraltar MP last time I was there.

I'm not Mystic Meg, I have no idea which combination of events will actually happen. But I don't subscribe to the Brexiters blind faith of 'it will all be fine because we're British'.
Jack, I fear old Foxy is correct you are definitely paranoid, I'm not sure we Brexiteers are the correct people to advise you how to escape from this pit of despair you seem to have dug yourself into.
But things are rarely as bad as the so called experts would have us believe, I well remember the paranoia that descended on our IT dept when they started to believe the Millenium Bug fantasies. Highly educated and qualified staff seemed to suddenly be overcome with this lemming like rush to try and solve a problem that the wise old sages amongst us predicted was an overblown fantasy propagated by lots of money grabbing IT start ups who had suddenly found a golden goose that was going to make their fortune, and for some it probably did.
You can bet that amongst the hair shirt ripping remainers there will be a large number looking to make money out of this so called crisis, and some poor firms are very likely to fall for it hook line and sinker.
I understand my comments are going to fall on your deaf ears but I hope you will still be around come Brexit day to see the sun rise and the port of Dover bustling with vehicles heading unencumbered in both directions, and gradually the truth will dawn on the unbelievers that the world hasn't ended after all.
John

Trainee Pensioner since 2000

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 05 Jun 2018, 10:20

:lol: :lol: towny !

There was a lady on some talk show recently, Yasmin Alibaba - Brown or something like that, who claimed that Brexit was actually making her mentally ill.
She just could not reconcile the fact that the side she voted for lost.
There must be some name for this Syndrome.

Like many others, she claimed that whatever deal the PM bought back to Parliament, it should be voted down.
What if it's a good deal asked the host.
It doesn't matter she claimed.
She just wanted us to stay in the EU.
What about the £250 million net a week that it costs us he asked.
Worth every penny was her reply.

She is one the few that will NEVER give up, but ultimately like Blair, Clegg, Campbell and others, they are 'rent an opinion' and their views are no more valid than anyone else's.

At last Jack has admitted that he is no Mystic Meg and doesn't claim to know what will happen. Hooray for that.
He's spent the last year telling us the end of the world is nigh :lol:
Last edited by barney on 05 Jun 2018, 10:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 05 Jun 2018, 16:31

An interesting opinion piece on Politico EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/europea ... ke-and-go/

Basically a message to the UK to just go. We've had enough of you.
Then … but you could still change your mind.
Then … stay and let's all reform the EU together

It seems that we are not the only ones confused by it all

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