Venice bans large ships ...

[Ess001]

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=5602

Sorry if this has already been posted, but the anticipated ban on large ships in venice has now been confirmed. Hope above link works!

Ess x

[Kendhni]

Ah well, what a shame, I wonder if there is much appeal left for visiting Venice by cruise ship?

[lioness]

Still be OK for the ships we cruise in Yes I think Venice is wonderful to visit by cruise ship, although we always do our own thing there. We did Burano and Torcello this year.

[Ray B]

It IS THE WAY to enter Venice. After a really enjoyable cruise on Oriana to the Med in September I can look back, and one of the highlights was the sail into Venice. It was worth getting out on deck just after 5am so as not to miss a moment and one of the prime reasons I booked the cruise not knowing when and if they were going to stop all cruise ships sailing past St Marks Sq.
I can appreciate why they want to stop large ships, it does not take much of a rise in water level to over-top the the quays.

Ray

[Onelife]

Still be OK for the ships we cruise in Yes I think Venice is wonderful to visit by cruise ship, although we always do our own thing there. We did Burano and Torcello this year.

Hi lioness,

Is Aurora one of the ships you are referring too? I do hope so as Venice is on our itinerary for our cruise in July.

Regards

Keith

[Boris+]

We were there for the protest mentioned on the BBC website. The ships they show were not there; I presume they have simply used old stock footage.

The crowds were absolutely impossible, and when we went into a jewellery shop to make a purchase, AFTER our payment had been received THEN the shop keeper had a go at us for being tourists! The 'authorities' publicised the number of passengers due in that day by ship - and they got it badly wrong. We stood on the Grills Terrace (complete with free ice cream I may add) and added up the 9 ships in port that day - no way were the published figures correct.

Anyway, the protestors only 'permitted' 4 ships to go initially, and ours was the fourth in that lucky group. We could clearly see the huge hulk of the MSC Divina going out ahead of us - and it completely and utterly dwarfed the skyline etc and made the buildings around St Marks Square look like models. The view looked like a group of people had done some model making, but not all to the same scale - weird.

When we were finally permitted to go (a delay, yes - but it did have some benefits the following day) we were escorted by police on jet-skis with blue flashing lights. The protestors stood on the quayside and protested and waved their flags (bless them) those of us who had Union Jacks waved them back in polite response (for whatever reason).

Being late leaving port meant we were late into the next destination, but it also meant that whereas we were due to be tendered instead as we got there first we were moored alongside instead - so it all came out alright in the end.

From what I gather QE and QV will still be ok for Venice (Arcadia too), but I won't specifically book a cruise to Venice again - dirty, shabby place, unacceptable attitude.

Em

[gilly88]

its a shame as ken said but I have to say I agree with the decision.

Venice is a unique city, and there has to be some control over the amount of traffic that is passing through those narrow water ways. its not as if the ships will not "go" to Venice, just take a different route, which will still enable people to visit the sights. After all the sights might no longer be their for future generations if things do not change, and that would be an even bigger shame.

[Dark Knight]

the historic importance and preservation of Venice is far more important than the moans of a cruise passengers
it is high time action was taken to stop the damage done by huge cruise ships eroding the foundations of the city
and if it spoils you trip to Venice then TOUGH, get some perspective and stop being selfish

[lioness]

Keith, yes to Aurora and even Arcadia will be OK at 85,000 tons. From memory it was 96,000 tons and under are OK. Ventura and Azura will not be allowed.

[Quizzical Bob]

the historic importance and preservation of Venice is far more important than the moans of a cruise passengers
it is high time action was taken to stop the damage done by huge cruise ships eroding the foundations of the city
and if it spoils you trip to Venice then TOUGH, get some perspective and stop being selfish

But it's not the cruise ships that are doing the damage, it's all the launches racing about.

[Dark Knight]

QB
it is the bow waves damaging the foundations of the buildings and this is made worse by the amount of water displacement caused by ships over 100,000 tonnes

[Onelife]

Keith, yes to Aurora and even Arcadia will be OK at 85,000 tons. From memory it was 96,000 tons and under are OK. Ventura and Azura will not be allowed.

Thanks lioness....that’s reassuring as sailing into Venice is a fantastic sight and one that we’re really looking forward to doing again in July. I have to say I won’t be too disappointed if we are redirected via Santa Maria cel Mare as from a good advantage point one should still be able to get a panoramic view of the whole of Venice. ...less of course you’re arriving by canoe

Regards

Keith

[Boris+]

Hi QB,

I have to agree with you on that point. I think that the turbulence we saw in the water was not caused by slowly moving larger vessels, but by smaller vessels (not cruise ships) travelling at speed.

Additionally, when we were last in Venice we didn't head for the tourist 'hot spots', instead choosing to walk through quiet side streets and back streets - hoping to see 'original' or unaltered situations. We were shocked and surprised to see buildings uncared for, unloved and some in serious states of disrepair, which was obviously nothing to do with the Grand Canal etc. So instead of these properties being regularly painted or re-pointed or re-rendered, chunks of render were missing half way up the walls, bushes (yes, bushes or small trees) were growing out of the walls; rubbish was laying about piling up and not having been collected; paint was peeling and flaking off walls - and windows, doors and shutters were in desperate need of attention; and they desperately needed cleaning. I saw gates (big enough to get a small car through) which would have been solid but for the gaping holes - and through the holes I could see what had once been a small garden with potential; but now it was extremely badly overgrown. There were other properties with small private quays within gates - now housing broken down and wrecked boats of varying sizes. It was an eye opener, for sure.

These were all properties which needed a bit of tlc and attention - it really came as a shock. I know that in some countries property exterior care is not a popular thing to do (unlike the UK, where we like our exteriors to have curb appeal), but these back streets really were appalling.

Em

[Dark Knight]

Locals have long voiced concerns about huge vessels, often carrying thousands of passengers, damaging the foundations of the fragile city when they pass so close to buildings down narrow canals - before mooring up alongside historic monuments which they overshadow

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/artic ... z2jtxYbFik
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Mmmm not sure

[Onelife]

Hi Em,

From what I have read the major problem of repairing these building is twofold. One being the very high cost of repairs due to in most cases the dredging of water before repair can take place. The other is the reluctance of foreign owners who have bought up many of the shop outlets to invest in the up keep of these historic buildings.

Regards

Keith

[Quizzical Bob]

QB
it is the bow waves damaging the foundations of the buildings and this is made worse by the amount of water displacement caused by ships over 100,000 tonnes

It's the length of the vessel and the speed that matter. A cruise ship travelling at a few knots causes hardly any waves, but it's their city and if they don't like them sailing past then that's their choice.

[Dark Knight]

QB
Forget the hype and read the proper technical reports

[towny44]

QB
it is the bow waves damaging the foundations of the buildings and this is made worse by the amount of water displacement caused by ships over 100,000 tonnes

Nightie have you ever been to Venice and studied the massive bow waves from a large cruise liner?
If not take it from me there are none, but as QB and others have said it is the smaller craft which create the bow waves especially in the Grand Canal where no cruise ships ever enters, even the Gondolas create a bigger bow wave than the cruise ships; and as for the "huge" water displacement from a cruise ship the Venice lagoon is massive and the combined effect of 5 or 6 cruise ships a day will hardly create a ripple on the steps of St Marks.
So please step down off this weeks soap box.

[Onelife]

Hi Em,

From what I have read the major problem of repairing these building is twofold. One being the very high cost of repairs due to in most cases the dredging of water before repair can take place. The other is the reluctance of foreign owners who have bought up many of the shop outlets to invest in the up keep of these historic buildings.

Regards

Keith

Hi Em,

Having read my post again it may have left you a little confused by the word “dredging” If so, It might help if you replace it with “draining”

Silly me!

Regards

Keith

[Timothy Turtle]

The statement says that "cruise ship traffic will be rerouted through the Contorta Sant'Angelo Canal, which is farther away from the best-known parts of the city". Does anyone know where this canal is as I can't find it on a map?

[Kendhni]

Given the reports of damage to the islands in the Caribbean caused by cruise ships and their passengers I wonder how long it will be before we see much tougher restrictions in that region? There are regular reports of cruise companies being fined for damage they have done to the environment in the Caribbean. Maybe more tendering and less docking may be the future?

The problem there is that many of the Caribbean islands have changed their economy from traditional farming and fishing based economies to being mostly supported by tourism. The Caribbean is a fantastic place but we have to be careful about double standards and selective 'protectionism'.

[Boris+]

Hi Keith,

Yes, I can see the point you make - and very valid it is too. However - and with huge respect for you - the majority of properties which I saw in a very sorry state were surrounded by other properties and therefore not needing any drainage works etc.

Someone else posted a comment about an article which said something like 'large cruise ships being moored right next to ancient buildings'. The only ancient thing I could see where the majority of ships were berthed when we last visited was my reflection in the mirror!

Em

[Dark Knight]

The head of the local council, Giorgio Orsoni, worries about "the damage to the city's foundations from ships passing through the Giudeccia canal, only 10 metres deep. The water they displace acts as a pump for the seabed, shaking even the San Marco basilica".

"We are victims of the state," Orsoni adds. "The San Marco basin is state property … The big cruise ships deal with the port authorities who report to central government. [The ships] pay €40,000 ($49,000) each time they moor, with 3,500 calls a year, but Venice gets nothing out of it. The 2 million passengers who disembark spend very little, maybe just buying a drink."

The state of the lagoon is a deep cause of concern. "The wash churned up by the ships is hollowing out the seabed and gradually turning the lagoon into an inlet of the Adriatic," warns Angelo Marzollo, the author of a Unesco report. "The erosion is particularly bad in the southern part."

So what is to be done? Casson favours a radical solution: "Ships over 30,000 tonnes should stay outside the lagoon, either at Malamocco or a custom-built offshore port near the future Mose barrier [designed to protect the historic city]. In the meantime, Port Marghera could fill the gap."

Ultimately the preservation of Venice is at stake. "Venetians no longer live in Venice, which has become too expensive," Casson adds. "The canals are blocked: they should be dredged rather than allocating all available funds to building the Mose. The urban fabric is very fragile. Our 60,000 residents cannot cope with 20 million tourists a year," on just six square kilometres. It is high time to encourage "intelligent tourism".

"Above all we must think in terms of heritage," says Bandarin. "The city is an icon and it must fully accept that fact. We need a strategic view for the next 10 years."

If the bill tabled by Casson is passed it will give Venice control over its own destiny.

This story originally appeared in Le Monde


Soapbox alert Towny....or do you know something the Unesco people dont ?

[Onelife]

The statement says that "cruise ship traffic will be rerouted through the Contorta Sant'Angelo Canal, which is farther away from the best-known parts of the city". Does anyone know where this canal is as I can't find it on a map?

Hi Timothy Turtle,

This link may answer your question as I would imagne the Contorta Sant'Angelo Canal must run somewhere along the new proposed route.

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Trav ... ty-center/

Click on picture to enlarge.

Regards

OL

[Timothy Turtle]

Thanks OL. It will be interesting to see if the new channel is dredged in time for the Guidecca ban - the Italians' track record for such work is pretty poor!