Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

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towny44
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#101

Post by towny44 »

daib GC wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 23:05
towny44 wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 22:40
daib GC wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 20:16
towny44 wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 19:45

I do not doubt you're correct about how long P&O have been perpetrating this charade, but I do wonder why you still want to continue paying this false pretence auto tip if you have known about it for so long?
You are mistaken it is only the link to the questionnaire. And I will still be paying my auto tip. I still have seen nothing to change my mind. I am still very happy to do what I do.
Do be careful how deep you dig in that hole Dai, we would not want the sides falling in on you!
I am still interested how you still beleave that the post from CC was in anyway genuine as it came along at a very appropriate time and from a first time poster. Glad to say that where it has been posted elsewhere it has been greeted with a large degree of scepticism. And I had not even posted anything.
I accept it may not be genuine, but it did contain a lot of information that rang true; and the convoluted way the calculations of both bonuses were outlined could help to explain why there were so many different interpretations of how the auto tip money was paid to staff given out by P&O.
But whether it is true or not I have run my calculations through the computer several times and still find that if everyone paid the full auto tip the revenue to P&O far outweighs the likely bonuses that would be earned by all the staff concerned. So either P&O are having to set the level of the tip high enough to cover the ones who opt out, or they are pocketing quite a tidy sum for their profits. Either way those that pay are being disadvantaged compared to those that opt out.
John

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Kendhni
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#102

Post by Kendhni »

Meg 50 wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 17:42
Kendhni wrote: 29 Apr 2018, 13:02
People who consistently go the extra mile might get a 4 and it is almost impossible to get a 5 (unless you know how ;)
for us to give excellent - the steward or whoever has to be mind-blowingly good - and we just about never award that on any questionnare - cos no one in this world is perfect.

I hope it's not only 5/5 that gets the bonus
That is exactly my concern as well.

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#103

Post by Manoverboard »

We will be on holiday trying to enjoy ourselves so wouldn't give a toss about staff bonus systems, if and or when the waiters give me the ' Excellent ' pitch I shake my head enthusiastically and tell them that there is definitely ' Room for Improvement '. This results in extra ice cream all round :lol:

In any event the questionnaire is a load of rubbish and we rarely, if at all, fill it in.

If any of them do however exceed our expectations then an envelope will pass between us ... as a bonus.

:wave:
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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#104

Post by Stephen »

Manoverboard wrote: 30 Apr 2018, 09:39
We will be on holiday trying to enjoy ourselves so wouldn't give a toss about staff bonus systems, if and or when the waiters give me the ' Excellent ' pitch I shake my head enthusiastically and tell them that there is definitely ' Room for Improvement '. This results in extra ice cream all round :lol:

In any event the questionnaire is a load of rubbish and we rarely, if at all, fill it in.

If any of them do however exceed our expectations then an envelope will pass between us ... as a bonus.

:wave:
:thumbup: Spot on Moby


AileenB
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#105

Post by AileenB »

The post referred to by Janet on page 2 of this thread is almost exactly as told to us by an extremely reliable source almost a year ago.
Until we received that information we had always paid the auto gratuity and sometimes even gave "extras" to members of staff. We now always remove the auto gratuity / service reward and pay directly to cabin stewards, waiters etc.This is the only way to guarantee OUR MONEY goes where WE want!
For a 2 week cruise a couple is now expected to hand over almost £200 in this scheme. How many of us would be happy to hand over that amount to someone unless you knew EXACTLY where your money was going? Until such time that P&O can guarantee that OUR money will go to the members of staff that serve US, we will remove this charge to our account.

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barney
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#106

Post by barney »

As posted earlier Aileen, we have always auto tipped since it came in but next time will be different.

We'll pay directly to the staff and P&O can like it or lump it.
Empty vessels .. and all that


Ray Scully
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#107

Post by Ray Scully »

AileenB wrote: 30 Apr 2018, 10:09
The post referred to by Janet on page 2 of this thread is almost exactly as told to us by an extremely reliable source almost a year ago.
Until we received that information we had always paid the auto gratuity and sometimes even gave "extras" to members of staff. We now always remove the auto gratuity / service reward and pay directly to cabin stewards, waiters etc.This is the only way to guarantee OUR MONEY goes where WE want!
For a 2 week cruise a couple is now expected to hand over almost £200 in this scheme. How many of us would be happy to hand over that amount to someone unless you knew EXACTLY where your money was going? Until such time that P&O can guarantee that OUR money will go to the members of staff that serve US, we will remove this charge to our account.
:thumbup: :clap: :clap:

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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#108

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

After the letter openly sent to try to name and shame passengers who choose to remove auto-tips, signed by Paul Ludlow, I've emailed him to tell him that I think that is disgusting and that in my view the whole tip system is broken and it needs adding to the fare so everyone pays with a clear statement that further tips are neither required nor expected.

If it isn't I will remove my auto-tips next time and go back to envelopes. And if I receive a letter not in an envelope I will complain to the highest level.
Last edited by Mervyn and Trish on 30 Apr 2018, 15:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#109

Post by Stephen »

Mervyn and Trish wrote: 30 Apr 2018, 15:18
After the letter openly sent to try to name and shame passengers who choose to remove auto-tips, signed by Paul Ludlow, I've emailed him to tell him that I think that is disgusting and that in my view the whole tip system is broken and it needs adding to the fare so everyone pays with a clear statement that further tips are neither required nor expected.

If it isn't I will remove my auto-tips next time and go back to envelopes. And if I receive a letter not in an envelope I will complain to the highest level.

No doubt the legalities of that have been checked....... or have they.

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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#110

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

Legal or not, it's not a nice thing to do.

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Stephen
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#111

Post by Stephen »

Mervyn and Trish wrote: 30 Apr 2018, 16:37
Legal or not, it's not a nice thing to do.
I agree. And they can send me as many letters as they like. Water off a ducks back.

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Happydays
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#112

Post by Happydays »

I would put it straight in the bin, since I can't put where I would like to😳😂😂


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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#113

Post by London Cruiser »

They cant change the present Tipping/service charge/ service reward what ever its now called system because the head honcho`s in Miami wont let them. The reason for the letter is because the gravy pot is shrinking, therefore if more people remove them they will drop these tactics and add to the cost of the cruise, RCI group and Carnival all apply this charge Automatically to all customers onboard account, across their various brands, with four cruises booked with P & O this year is costing us over £600 in extra charges for someone to do what I have already paid for. I have never removed the auto charge since it started but now my attitude is changing and mainly through the lack of transparency how this scheme works and is administered. We don't always receive an onboard survey form, so how does that affect the cabin Steward etc if we don't receive it. If only I could be bothered to queue up to fill the form in, which begs the question Why should you have too for something that is Discretionary ! but applied to your account like some type of tax. I think that letter put in a paying customers room really was disgraceful. The system is broken and needs changing, but HQ will put plenty of "Spin" on this matter to persuade us its the right thing to do for a few more years yet.

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Capt Black
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#114

Post by Capt Black »

When auto tipping was introduced we did that, because it was convenient and we previously tipped the going rate anyway. However, over the last couple of years, we've gone back to envelopes.

And our next cruise, 12 weeks today will be the same.

So what if P & O leave a snotty letter for me in my cabin, it's my holiday, and under the current t & c s it's my choice to amend or remove auto tips, and my choice how much I put in the envelopes.

And i will return said letter pointing out that it's my choice how and how much I tip, t & c s work both ways.

Clearly, the auto tipping scheme isn't working, but who is not working for? The company or the staff who provide the service to be rewarded?


ccc666
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#115

Post by ccc666 »

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4816

P&O Fires crew for walkout
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4893

P&O always says that 100% goes to the intended crew (5 ranks) My post was to describe the flawed bonus system where you need to get excellent to get the bonus. While most of the targets are in the 90%, how do you expect crew to achieve when ticking Good Means only 75% score. Isn't this system flawed

If everyone paid the Auto Grats. on a big ship like Azura P&O will collect 3096*7*30 equal to 6,50,160 pounds in a month. Total crew benefiting from this system is about 220 restaurant staff and 80 cabin stewards. While including max bonus the crew can earn max approx around 1200 pounds, the real they earn is around 20% lower around 1000 pounds. Junior waiters earn around half of waiters pay per month.So if i take average 1000 pounds pay per month for all 300 crew, P&O has to pay 3,00,000 pounds per month. While they collect 6,50,160 from Auto Gratuities. So even if 50% opt out P&O will still have 3,25,080 to pay for the salaries. So P&O doesn't pay a pence from their pocket.

Including Auto Gratuities in the cruise price will only lead to more cheating by P&O

Isn't this a SCAM

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Ian Perth
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#116

Post by Ian Perth »

ccc666 what a load of tosh, if your going to use information make sure it’s up to date, 2012 links bare no relevance to what’s happening today, no one knows how tips are dealt with other than PO th mselves so everything here is speculative to say the least, rant over.

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#117

Post by Manoverboard »

Do we all remember the Book that was on Kindle entitled ' Cruise Confidential ' - ish, it was supposed to lift the lid off the life of crew members regarding their conditions, earnings and Spanish customs etc.

It was a decent read but somehow it lacked credibility else the average cruiser preferred to ignore the content and continue to live their own dream that is cruising.

Could this latest information, ' ccc666 ', fall into the same category ... just asking.
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daib GC
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#118

Post by daib GC »

Manoverboard wrote: 01 May 2018, 10:16
Do we all remember the Book that was on Kindle entitled ' Cruise Confidential ' - ish, it was supposed to lift the lid off the life of crew members regarding their conditions, earnings and Spanish customs etc.

It was a decent read but somehow it lacked credibility else the average cruiser preferred to ignore the content and continue to live their own dream that is cruising.

Could this latest information, ' ccc666 ', fall into the same category ... just asking.
Well there are people on CC who have fallen for this post so hard that they beleave it to be gospel and the world is going to come to an end quite soon.

Well something like that.

Naive and gullible come to mind. But then if in confirms their own prejudice then go for it.
Last edited by daib GC on 01 May 2018, 10:34, edited 1 time in total.


Whynd1
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#119

Post by Whynd1 »

On our visit to Alvaston Hall (Warners) we gave the waitress a tip because we had received excellent service with a smile and good humour.
To me that's what its all about.

How can you pre pay for a gratuity when you don't know over the coming days of your cruise what level of service you are going to receive.

I have always done the envelope system as I have said before and will not be changing it and if I receive a letter I will be down to reception querying this.

As has been said its your holiday and why should you be worrying about the tips and getting threatning letters.

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towny44
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#120

Post by towny44 »

Dai, even without this information about the wage levels and the way bonuses are calculated, you only need to look at my figures to realise that if everyone paid the amount P&O would collect would be several times more than they would need to pay out to cover the full wages of the 5 ranks that supposedly share the auto tip.
I do agree that not everyone pays the auto tip, but from my figures the opt out rate would need to be 70-80% before the auto tip did not cover these wages. Which makes it grossly unfair on those of us paying the auto tip, and why I now intend to opt out and pay, probably a reduced amount, in cash; and if asked by P&O this is the reason I will give, and it will remain so until they include tips in the cruise fare.
John

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Ray Scully
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#121

Post by Ray Scully »

Why can't P&O see the elephant in the room??????

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Manoverboard
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#122

Post by Manoverboard »

Get a grip Ray we are discussing gratuities NOT elephants :roll:
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Ray Scully
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#123

Post by Ray Scully »

Manoverboard wrote: 01 May 2018, 12:57
Get a grip Ray we are discussing gratuities NOT elephants :roll:
If one says there is an elephant in the room, you mean that there is an obvious problem or difficult situation that people do not want to talk about.

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barney
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#124

Post by barney »

I think that you've just been whooshed there Ray. :lol:
Empty vessels .. and all that

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towny44
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Re: Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

#125

Post by towny44 »

Ray Scully wrote: 01 May 2018, 13:20
Manoverboard wrote: 01 May 2018, 12:57
Get a grip Ray we are discussing gratuities NOT elephants :roll:
If one says there is an elephant in the room, you mean that there is an obvious problem or difficult situation that people do not want to talk about.
The problem nowadays is there is likely to be a herd of elephants in the room. :relaxed:
John

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