[Split from G011] Carnival Refunds

[Mervyn and Trish]

Carnival's profits won't be stashed away. For the most part they'll be handed out in shareholder dividends.

[towny44]

Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.

This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.

Hi John…Carnival have been returning an average yearly net profit of 2.5 billion over the past five years. Now I’m none to cleaver with the figures but I do know a bit about wheeler dealing and if truth be known the Carnival corporation probably have their billion dollar profits stashed away in overseas high interest accounts while the loans that they have taken out will no doubt be at a lower rate than what they are getting in their higher interest accounts.
I do feel sorry for the staff and businesses that depend on the cruise industry but I won’t be shedding any tears for Carnival…they will bounce back…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it

I do wonder where you get your theories from Keith, but if you ran a successful business you will know that issued annual profits and liquidity more often than not have no relationship to one another. Equally a large amount of the cash liquidity will have gone to pay the annual dividend. Furthermore you must be aware that the vast majority of company failures are due to liquidity problems, even for ones which have regularly posted good profits. But if you do know where Carnivals hidden billions are stashed, then I imagine Mickey Arison would love to hear from you.

[Manoverboard]

…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it

Yours, I hope I recall correctly, was a different type of business to that run by Carnival.

In your case less investment than theirs was needed and you wouldn't have had a cash flow problem, barring any defaulters of course.

[Onelife]

This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.

Hi John…Carnival have been returning an average yearly net profit of 2.5 billion over the past five years. Now I’m none to cleaver with the figures but I do know a bit about wheeler dealing and if truth be known the Carnival corporation probably have their billion dollar profits stashed away in overseas high interest accounts while the loans that they have taken out will no doubt be at a lower rate than what they are getting in their higher interest accounts.
I do feel sorry for the staff and businesses that depend on the cruise industry but I won’t be shedding any tears for Carnival…they will bounce back…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it

I do wonder where you get your theories from Keith, but if you ran a successful business you will know that issued annual profits and liquidity more often than not have no relationship to one another. Equally a large amount of the cash liquidity will have gone to pay the annual dividend. Furthermore you must be aware that the vast majority of company failures are due to liquidity problems, even for ones which have regularly posted good profits. But if you do know where Carnivals hidden billions are stashed, then I imagine Mickey Arison would love to hear from you.

Hi John,

As l said l'm none to good with figures but all companies are susceptible to economic ups and downs and during such times liquidity and cash flow are, as you say squeezed to the limit, especially for small/start up firms who are at the mercy of bigger companies who call the shots as to how long they have to settle their bills. This of course puts smaller companies at greater risk of not being able to pay their creditors, and as a result are genrally the first to go under.

Those at the top of the cash fountain general make the biggest profits and should in my opinion be fully aware of the pitfalls that economic downturns have on their Buisness . Businesses choose their own buisness model and succeed or fail by them. There is no success without risk some survive many don't.
These are however exceptional circumstances and many businesses will go under through no fault of their own. That being said were P&O are concerned the writing has been on the wall for a long time, they have ploughed ahead with what they think is bigger and better and because of this they will have to shoulder the consequences of expanding/overstretching themselves too quickly (if that is what they have done)?

As for the stashed away billions it's probably been turned into gold by now

[Onelife]

…..btw..I know all about losing a business….I built up a good business over twenty three year only to see it taken away in a day.. sadly for third of what it was worth.

It’s the nature of the beast and all businesses are governed by it

Yours, I hope I recall correctly, was a different type of business to that run by Carnival.

In your case less investment than theirs was needed and you wouldn't have had a cash flow problem, barring any defaulters of course.

Hi Mob....your memory serves you well......l evaluated the risk and set up a business that l could manage.

[towny44]

Hi John,

As l said l'm none to good with figures but all companies are susceptible to economic ups and downs and during such times liquidity and cash flow are, as you say squeezed to the limit, especially for small/start up firms who are at the mercy of bigger companies who call the shots as to how long they have to settle their bills. This of course puts smaller companies at greater risk of not being able to pay their creditors, and as a result are genrally the first to go under.

Those at the top of the cash fountain general make the biggest profits and should in my opinion be fully aware of the pitfalls that economic downturns have on their Buisness . Businesses choose their own buisness model and succeed or fail by them. There is no success without risk some survive many don't.
These are however exceptional circumstances and many businesses will go under through no fault of their own. That being said were P&O are concerned the writing has been on the wall for a long time, they have ploughed ahead with what they think is bigger and better and because of this they will have to shoulder the consequences of expanding/overstretching themselves too quickly (if that is what they have done)?

As for the stashed away billions it's probably been turned into gold by now

Keith, can I suggest that, rather than imaginary choccys, you start sharing some of your magic mushrooms with us.
Incidentally this mornings Mail OS advises that curmudgeonly Victor Meldrew personalities live longer and avoid alzheimers better than the rest of us, so to quote Spock "Live long and prosper".

[Onelife]

Hi John,

As l said l'm none to good with figures but all companies are susceptible to economic ups and downs and during such times liquidity and cash flow are, as you say squeezed to the limit, especially for small/start up firms who are at the mercy of bigger companies who call the shots as to how long they have to settle their bills. This of course puts smaller companies at greater risk of not being able to pay their creditors, and as a result are genrally the first to go under.

Those at the top of the cash fountain general make the biggest profits and should in my opinion be fully aware of the pitfalls that economic downturns have on their Buisness . Businesses choose their own buisness model and succeed or fail by them. There is no success without risk some survive many don't.
These are however exceptional circumstances and many businesses will go under through no fault of their own. That being said were P&O are concerned the writing has been on the wall for a long time, they have ploughed ahead with what they think is bigger and better and because of this they will have to shoulder the consequences of expanding/overstretching themselves too quickly (if that is what they have done)?

As for the stashed away billions it's probably been turned into gold by now

Keith, can I suggest that, rather than imaginary choccys, you start sharing some of your magic mushrooms with us.
Incidentally this mornings Mail OS advises that curmudgeonly Victor Meldrew personalities live longer and avoid alzheimers better than the rest of us, so to quote Spock "Live long and prosper".

Funny you should mention magic mushrooms.....l don't suppose l can interest you in some poppy plants as well?

[CaroleF]

Towny, John, you asked if P&O allowed me to transfer my current deposits to the new cruises - yes they did. I had booked through Bolsover so they dealt with it all. As the new deposits were only 5% we had very little extra to pay.

Carole

[Onelife]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

[Manoverboard]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

So … you don't subscribe to the idea that it will be the pensioners who suffer the most number of fatalities

[Onelife]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

So … you don't subscribe to the idea that it will be the pensioners who suffer the most number of fatalities

"That's a given" Mob.

[towny44]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

So … you don't subscribe to the idea that it will be the pensioners who suffer the most number of fatalities

Correct, but they won't be around to endure any further financial hardship.

[Manoverboard]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

So … you don't subscribe to the idea that it will be the pensioners who suffer the most number of fatalities

"That's a given" Mob.

That being the case how, may I politely enquire ' will we have faired much better than most ' if we are dead

[Onelife]

So … you don't subscribe to the idea that it will be the pensioners who suffer the most number of fatalities

"That's a given" Mob.

That being the case how, may I politely enquire ' will we have faired much better than most ' if we are dead

Not wishing to sound too mercenary about it...... many of their dependents, children etc will be receiving unexpected windfalls.....sad but true.

[Quizzical Bob]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

That’s ok if you’re on a guaranteed pension.

[Onelife]

It's ironic, is it not, that when all this is over it will be us pensioners who will have faired much better than most of the working population...Our pension pots will have been affected but genrally speaking most of us will be no worse off.....albeit for the massive recession we will all be enduring.

That’s ok if you’re on a guaranteed pension.

Point taken

[Onelife]

P&O (carnival) are a robust company with very little debt

Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.

This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.

Hi John...l thought you might find this interesting.....

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Tra ... n-HBO-show

Btw.....is a $6-7billion loan the same as asking for a lone Guarantee?

[Quizzical Bob]

Debt is not the problem it is cash flow. They still have outgoings whether ships sail or not and if ships are not sailing, and customers are not booking, then there is no money coming in. I believe Carnival have recently secured a $3 billion loan to to tide them over.

This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.

Hi John...l thought you might find this interesting.....

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Tra ... n-HBO-show

Btw.....is a $6-7billion loan the same as asking for a lone Guarantee?

I think a loan guarantee is what is given to the body making the loan, not to the one receiving it.

[Onelife]

This mornings paper says that Carnivaĺ are seeking a further $6-7billion loan to see them through the crisis, they might be looking to offer shares in exchange. So I doubt they would be doing that if they were flush with funds.

Hi John...l thought you might find this interesting.....

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Tra ... n-HBO-show

Btw.....is a $6-7billion loan the same as asking for a lone Guarantee?

I think a loan guarantee is what is given to the body making the loan, not to the one receiving it.

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

[Quizzical Bob]

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

We all need something to help us through these difficult times.

[towny44]

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

We all need something to help us through these difficult times.

Thinking of loan guarantees I am sure you will be pleased to know Keith that Barclaycard are demanding huge insurance deposits from travel companies, or they will no longer process their credit card payments. Of course this is all in the public interest to allow barclaycard to continue trading and enjoy huge profits, whilst not subjecting to them to huge losses if they are asked to fork out anything to customers under clause 75.

[Stephen]

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

We all need something to help us through these difficult times.

I find Scottish refreshment and Australian fruit juice helps

[Onelife]

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

We all need something to help us through these difficult times.

Thinking of loan guarantees I am sure you will be pleased to know Keith that Barclaycard are demanding huge insurance deposits from travel companies, or they will no longer process their credit card payments. Of course this is all in the public interest to allow barclaycard to continue trading and enjoy huge profits, whilst not subjecting to them to huge losses if they are asked to fork out anything to customers under clause 75.

To be honest with you John l have long thought that the Travel Insurance Buisness has needed a good shake up and if this is a way of weeding out the cowboys then so be it. Tighter regulation of the travel insurance industry is long overdue.....Indeed all insurance providers could do with closer scrutiny imo.
Yep'....out of every disaster there are always those who make a "killing" (Oop's..l must choose my words better ) but banks are in the risk Buisness and while you and l might think their charges and profits are excessive.....we are not taking the risks.

[Onelife]

Thanks, QB…. sorry. I was aware of that but I’ve been on my mischievous “magic mushrooms” trying to get John to reply.

We all need something to help us through these difficult times.

We do indeed QB.........on that note if your looking to purchase some magic mushrooms l sell them lose or packed

[Manoverboard]

.........on that note if your looking to purchase some magic mushrooms l sell them lose or packed

OH, is that what's making you grumpy