Brexit

Chat about anything here

Ray Scully
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1552
Joined: January 2013
Location: Lancashire

Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 11 Jan 2019, 17:14

Barney, what's the problem? if there is a peoples vote, surely you don't expect it to change the result of the referendum.

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 11 Jan 2019, 17:43

If there was another referendum I suspect that the result would be very close again. Maybe remain. Maybe leave. Whatever the losing side will not accept it.

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 11 Jan 2019, 19:51

I suspect if there was another referendum and the Remainers won they would expect the result to be honoured? And the Leavers, after the shenanigans of the past two years would accept it? :o
And if the Leavers won we would be back to where we are now, with a bunch of politicians only interested in themselves.

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 12:46

Jack Staff wrote:
11 Jan 2019, 16:45
barney wrote:
11 Jan 2019, 16:12
If the losing side will not accept the result, then the next step is anarchy.

Those calling for a 'people's vote' must understand the consequences of that.
Just say remain win by 52-48%
Do they seriously expect that the 48% will just shrug their shoulders and say, oh well. never mind.
There will be massive civil unrest all across the country.
Major cities will burn.
The far right will be out in force and sweep up all the low lifes looking for a punch up in their wake.

At the moment, the UK is lucky in the fact that it doesn't have a large far right movement, unlike most other European countries.
Should Brexit not happen, for any reason, this will change in a heartbeat.
The pseudo liberals will then be wringing their hands and wondering where it all went wrong.
We are British. We do not appease, we fight fascists.
Unfortunately both the far right and Antifa are cut from the same cloth Jack.
Ultimately, they are both happy to resort to violence to further their cause.

Antifa are the anarchist group who turn up to oppose fascists without understanding that they are equally bigoted.
They are the guys dressed in black with their faces covered.
https://twitter.com/antifa_uk

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 13:09

barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 12:46
Unfortunately both the far right and Antifa are cut from the same cloth Jack.
Ultimately, they are both happy to resort to violence to further their cause.

Antifa are the anarchist group who turn up to oppose fascists without understanding that they are equally bigoted.
They are the guys dressed in black with their faces covered.
https://twitter.com/antifa_uk
More 'whataboutery' eh, Barney?

I am well aware of the Antifa. The one good thing I can say about them is they are not fascists.

This is what your Brexit is doing to our country.
You used to tell us about how wonderful things were going to be.
Now it is if we don't Brexit, there will be riots.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 13:50

Only because you and others have failed to grasp the basics of democracy Jack.

You cannot seriously expect millions of voters to accept the legitimate overthrow of a vote, just because the losing side didn't like it.

Mark my words, there will be blood on the streets and folk like you will be responsible. :(

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 13:52

barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 13:50
Only because you and others have failed to grasp the basics of democracy Jack.

You cannot seriously expect millions of voters to accept the legitimate overthrow of a vote, just because the losing side didn't like it.

Mark my words, there will be blood on the streets and folk like you will be responsible. :(
I think you will find that it will be the Brexiters who history will hold responsible.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

Manoverboard
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 7085
Joined: January 2013
Location: Dorset

Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 12 Jan 2019, 14:10

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 13:52
barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 13:50
Only because you and others have failed to grasp the basics of democracy Jack.

You cannot seriously expect millions of voters to accept the legitimate overthrow of a vote, just because the losing side didn't like it.

Mark my words, there will be blood on the streets and folk like you will be responsible. :(
I think you will find that it will be the Brexiters who history will hold responsible.
17,000,000 innocent souls who did not chose to vote the way you did will not be held responsible, just the egotistical idiots who believe themselves to be more influential than they actually are.

ps … TM's Deal hasn't been voted down yet … as far as I am aware. :wave:

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Jan 2019, 15:15

Just before Christmas I went by coach to London, and passed the memorial plaque for the Battle of Cable Street.

It's really sad that it looks like we are going to have to fight fascism on the streets all over again.

The referendum result emboldened the far right to creep out of the woodwork. Even if there's a no deal Brexit, it's naive to think they will slink back to the holes they crept out off. The low life thugs will be spewing their hatred on the streets regardless of what happens next.

If May's deal goes through (big if) or if Brexit is stopped or delayed, there will be some idiots who will jump on the bandwagon and do a bit of rioting. However, if a no deal Brexit happens, they'll be exactly the same people who'll be out rioting if Aldi runs out of baked beans
Gill

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Jan 2019, 15:18

2016: There will be no downside to Brexit only a considerable upside

2019: We must must have Brexit so the fascists don't get cross
Gill

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 15:28

democracy (redirected from Modern Democracy)
Also found in: Thesaurus, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia.
de·moc·ra·cy (dĭ-mŏk′rə-sē)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

The people instructed government to to leave the EU via a legitimate vote that was called by Parliament, agreed by Parliament, and must now be enacted by Parliament.
Anything else is a betrayal of the majority.
How it happens is up to Parliament but it must happen or democracy will be dead in the UK.

I fully understand that the anti-democrats don't like it, but fortunately they have method of recourse in the next general election.
They can vote for the political party that stands on a mandate of joining the EU.
The Libdems should walk it if the remainers are correct.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 15:31

barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:28
I fully understand that the anti-democrats don't like it,
Says the man who doesn't want people to have a vote.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 15:32

Gill W wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:18
2016: There will be no downside to Brexit only a considerable upside

2019: We must must have Brexit so the fascists don't get cross
I'm still pretty chilled about the whole thing Gill.
I can't speak for others but I do not subscribe to Project Fear.
Deal or no deal, the UK will be fine.
We are a resilient nation.

Would you like Brexit to be a success or would you rather it be a total disaster?


screwy
Senior Second Officer
Senior Second Officer
Posts: 766
Joined: March 2013

Re: Brexit

Post by screwy » 12 Jan 2019, 15:43

The people have had a vote...end of.
Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 15:47

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:31
barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:28
I fully understand that the anti-democrats don't like it,
Says the man who doesn't want people to have a vote.
We've had it !
How many do you want Jack?
Just one more?
One every week?
Every six months?
Continue until you get your way?

After May's defeat on Tuesday, she will no doubt come back again with an EU titbit and try again.
Another defeat means she will have no choice but to resign, if she has any pride.
Another Tory will take over.
There is little chance of a GE at the moment.
Then, all bets are off as it depends on who the Tories vote to be leader.

Even if there is a GE and Labour win it (doubtful), Corbyn will have to go if the UK is to remain in the EU.
He is and always has been a staunch leaver.
If you doubt that, look up his voting record in Parliament.
Although the vast majority of Labour members fancy another referendum, an undisputable fact is that 63% of Labour seats voted to leave the EU.
Labour cannot win on members alone and they need to take the North & Midlands with them.
see attached

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/anti ... leave-par/
Last edited by barney on 12 Jan 2019, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 12 Jan 2019, 15:59

barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:32
Gill W wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:18
2016: There will be no downside to Brexit only a considerable upside

2019: We must must have Brexit so the fascists don't get cross
I'm still pretty chilled about the whole thing Gill.
I can't speak for others but I do not subscribe to Project Fear.
Deal or no deal, the UK will be fine.
We are a resilient nation.

Would you like Brexit to be a success or would you rather it be a total disaster?
I would rather remain - but if we must Brexit, of course I want it to be a success.

I don't WANT it to be disaster. But I do think it will be.

After all, we are in planning for disaster mitigation. Buying up fridges left right and centre for stockpiling medicines, the supermarkets are stockpiling food, trying to create a traffic jam at Manston and giving a ferry contract to a company that has no ferries. Not to mention it's planning for a self inflicted disaster. Yes, we are resilient - but we are still planning on inflicting the pain on ourselves - it seems completely mental to me.

Anyway, Barney, according to you, there's going to be a week of disruption, and then normal life resumes. Let's hope you're right, eh?
Gill

User avatar

david63
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5593
Joined: January 2012
Location: Lancashire

Re: Brexit

Post by david63 » 12 Jan 2019, 16:06

screwy wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:43
The people have had a vote...end of.
The people had a vote and theirs was to leave the EU.

The MPs have a vote and they are voting for their own ends, be that not leaving the EU (against the will of the people) or to try and force a change of Government (totally ignoring the will of the people).

I have said it before - the current behaviour of a large number (majority?) of MPs is a disgrace.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 16:12

david63 wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 16:06
screwy wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:43
The people have had a vote...end of.
The people had a vote and theirs was to leave the EU.

The MPs have a vote and they are voting for their own ends, be that not leaving the EU (against the will of the people) or to try and force a change of Government (totally ignoring the will of the people).

I have said it before - the current behaviour of a large number (majority?) of MPs is a disgrace.
How do we know it is still the "will of the people"?
The last time they were asked is nearly three years ago, a lot has changed since.
We could just ask them again.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 12 Jan 2019, 16:32

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 16:12
david63 wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 16:06
screwy wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:43
The people have had a vote...end of.
The people had a vote and theirs was to leave the EU.

The MPs have a vote and they are voting for their own ends, be that not leaving the EU (against the will of the people) or to try and force a change of Government (totally ignoring the will of the people).

I have said it before - the current behaviour of a large number (majority?) of MPs is a disgrace.
How do we know it is still the "will of the people"?
The last time they were asked is nearly three years ago, a lot has changed since.
We could just ask them again.
Would you accept it if the result was the same ?
say
50.1% leave
49.9% remain

or would that be too close ?

Would you like Brexit to be a success or disaster ?
Last edited by barney on 12 Jan 2019, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 17:22

barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 16:32
Would you accept it if the result was the same ?
say
50.1% leave
49.9% remain

or would that be too close ?
Barney, you already know I will not accept us leaving the EU.
barney wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 16:32
Would you like Brexit to be a success or disaster ?
In the unlikely event we leave I would like Brexit it to be a success. But what I (or you) would like has no bearing on Brexit being the complete disaster it has already proven it will be.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Jan 2019, 19:14

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 17:22
has no bearing on Brexit being the complete disaster it has already proven it will be.
I hadn't realised we had already left ......................

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 19:46

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 19:14
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 17:22
has no bearing on Brexit being the complete disaster it has already proven it will be.
I hadn't realised we had already left ......................
We haven't, but the number of companies, whether whole or in part have.
Also confidence, our world standing and reputation are going out the door right now.
The damage Brexit has already caused will take years to recover, even without leaving. At least Brexiters will be able to say "I told you it would get worse staying in the EU".
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 12 Jan 2019, 22:10

Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 19:46
At least Brexiters will be able to say "I told you it would get worse staying in the EU".
You mean like this.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 12 Jan 2019, 23:52

oldbluefox wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 22:10
Jack Staff wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 19:46
At least Brexiters will be able to say "I told you it would get worse staying in the EU".
You mean like this.
What's wrong with that?

Unfortunately the Brits are against it, so it won't happen as long as we have our veto.
With Trump doing his America first stuff, he clearly will not go against his Russian paymasters. Even to the point of his support of NATO and with Britain now cowering away behind the Channel, thinking it is still 1940. Such a shame after generations of British soldiers and airmen have done service in Europe (members of this forum even), it's as if we are saying their efforts were worthless.
So it comes to Europe to defend itself.
The only "EU Army" that is currently being planned is co-operation on things like radios and standards. The Latvians can find out not to shoot their Polish bullets at the Estonians. Seems like a perfectly sensible idea to me.
An EU army won't happen, it's purely Brexiter propaganda. But please take this opportunity to explain why it is a bad idea and how Brexit will actually help anything apart from speeding its' possible creation.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 09:30

"An EU army won't happen, it's purely Brexiter propaganda".
I presume you see Ursula von der Leyen as part of the Brexit propaganda machine? This has not come from a Brexiter and is not the first time the subject has been mooted. The intentions of the EU are very clear to those who have their eyes and their minds open.
Simply put, I don't want to be part of a European Army. Let's face it France and Germany can't pay their way to NATO so I wonder who will be putting into the European pot? What makes you think we will not be drawn into a European Army if we remain in the EU? You are short sighted and deluded if you think it will not happen, much as you hate to admit it.

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 09:36

I suppose it would be a good way of providing employment to the unemployed youth of southern Europe..........
Great idea Jack. Let's pack off our youth, no doubt on a conscription basis, to do their bit for Europe!!!! :roll:

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 13 Jan 2019, 11:16

Now, talking about conscription IS Project Fear.
Gill


screwy
Senior Second Officer
Senior Second Officer
Posts: 766
Joined: March 2013

Re: Brexit

Post by screwy » 13 Jan 2019, 12:45

Wouldn’t do our lot any harm truth be known.
Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 16:09

Gill W wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 11:16
Now, talking about conscription IS Project Fear.
The difference being this is backed up by evidence of what Europe's intentions are.
British citizens resident in Europe will have to return home? Not true.
There will be a shortage of medicines after Brexit? Not true.
EU citizens in UK will have to return home? Not true.
The UK economy will crash within months of a Brexit vote? Not true.
Queues of lorries at Channel ports? Not in Calais because they are already prepared for a no deal whilst we dither.

I do concede that when it comes to Project Fear Remainers do have the upper hand. Jack even thinks we have already left!!!

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 13 Jan 2019, 16:40

I think "not true" sums up your post perfectly.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 13 Jan 2019, 18:18

Where’s the evidence that the EU is going to start conscription into an EU army?
Gill

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 18:35

Jack Staff wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 16:40
I think "not true" sums up your post perfectly.
So you refute all of those? Clearly you are not keeping up with the news.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 13 Jan 2019, 18:40

oldbluefox wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 18:35
Jack Staff wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 16:40
I think "not true" sums up your post perfectly.
So you refute all of those? Clearly you are not keeping up with the news.
I am obviously not seeing the same news as you. I refute ALL of those (maybe not the Calais bit).

I am surprised you are not keeping a low profile, bearing in mind what is going to happen. But then, as you are not seeing the same news, you probably don't know.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 20:03

I'll help you out Jack:
https://aspenwoolf.co.uk/will-expats-se ... er-brexit/
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families
........ and just to dispel another Remainer lie, aeroplanes will continue to fly to Europe in the event of a no deal Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018 ... s-currency

Fortunately not all of us are taken in by the claims of the Remain camp.

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 20:11

Jack Staff wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 18:40
I am surprised you are not keeping a low profile, bearing in mind what is going to happen. But then, as you are not seeing the same news, you probably don't know.
As a Brexiter I'm one of those who would happily leave under a no deal basis on WTO terms and then negotiate our future relationship with the EU. Why would I want to keep a low profile? What a strange comment!

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 20:30

Looks like I'm not alone. Neil Warnock, manager of Cardiff City, sums it up nicely:
“I don’t know why politicians don’t do what the country wants, if I’m honest,” Mr Warnock said in his post-match press conference.

“They had a referendum and now we see different politicians and everyone else trying to put their foot in it ... Why did we have a referendum in the first bl**dy place?

“I can’t wait to get out of it, if I’m honest. I think we’ll be far better out of the bl**dy thing. In every aspect."

Well spoken that man.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 13 Jan 2019, 20:44

I am happy to admit that I did not know the French plans for Calais in the event of no deal.

You are correct. There will be no lorry queues at Calais.
They can not have queues because of the migrants.
They are going to close the port of Calais.
Hope you are all stocked up with provisions.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 13 Jan 2019, 20:50

oldbluefox wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 20:11
Why would I want to keep a low profile? What a strange comment!
Because you may well be going to look a bit silly with upcoming events, which you clearly don't know about yet.
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 13 Jan 2019, 21:05

You've not been visiting Gypsy Rose Lee's little room again have you? :lolno:

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 13 Jan 2019, 21:27

oldbluefox wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 21:05
You've not been visiting Gypsy Rose Lee's little room again have you? :lolno:
No. Perhaps you should join Barney and myself watching the BBC Parliament channel, or are they too biased for you?
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

oldbluefox
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 6805
Joined: January 2013
Location: Cumbria

Re: Brexit

Post by oldbluefox » 14 Jan 2019, 08:28

If Barney does watch the Parliament channel (never heard him say he does but you obviously know) he clearly has a better understanding of the facts than you. His posts rely on experience, knowledge and logic to present a clear argument and I am pleased you give him the credit he obviously deserves. :clap: :clap:

User avatar

Gill W
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2431
Joined: January 2013
Location: Kent

Re: Brexit

Post by Gill W » 14 Jan 2019, 09:50

Gill W wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 18:18
Where’s the evidence that the EU is going to start conscription into an EU army?
Still no evidence of this particular claim.

As I said, this is Project Fear, Leaver style.
Gill


Ray Scully
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1552
Joined: January 2013
Location: Lancashire

Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 14 Jan 2019, 10:36

br 2.jpg
Will this help to clarify things?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 14 Jan 2019, 12:12

There is no blame at all on those who voted to leave. The blame for this monumental clock up lies firmly with remainer May and those who failed to accept the result of the vote.


Ray Scully
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1552
Joined: January 2013
Location: Lancashire

Re: Brexit

Post by Ray Scully » 14 Jan 2019, 12:53

Barney, the conundrum is what voting to leave means, sunny uplands, people dying because they can't access drugs, no one knows even now. The blame is not with Mrs. May, but the stupidity of a binary referendum on such a complex and convoluted arrangement that our membership of the EU is.
Last edited by Ray Scully on 14 Jan 2019, 13:06, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Manoverboard
Deputy Captain
Deputy Captain
Posts: 7085
Joined: January 2013
Location: Dorset

Re: Brexit

Post by Manoverboard » 14 Jan 2019, 13:02

I watch the Parliamentary Channel quite frequently. My observations are …

There seem to be the same Group of Members saying exactly the same thing ad nauseum and regardless of the question raised, there are approx 50 of them I would estimate and they are more trouble than they are worth. The remaining quieter Members are for the most part moderates and they will be persuaded by common sense and practicality rather than extreme dogma of any colour.

If TM does lose the vote it seems that she can legitimately rerun it, perhaps again and again until ' she ' gets the result she requires.

User avatar

Onelife
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 4509
Joined: January 2013

Re: Brexit

Post by Onelife » 14 Jan 2019, 13:50

If anyone is left in any doubt as to why Theresa May has been fighting an uphill battle to get her deal passed then one should look no further than her own government whip who has resigned in order to vote against her deal....what a slimy backstabbing git....One has to seriously question his commitment to the job in the first place.........disgraceful!!

Mob......totally agree :thumbup:

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 14 Jan 2019, 13:56

Ray Scully wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 12:53
Barney, the conundrum is what voting to leave means, sunny uplands, people dying because they can't access drugs, no one knows even now. The blame is not with Mrs. May, but the stupidity of a binary referendum on such a complex and convoluted arrangement that our membership of the EU is.
The blame is 100% with May in my opinion. Too much time trying to get a deal and too little preparing to leave. By taking your argument to it's natural conclusion it would mean that after joining the EU no country could ever leave. I wish that was explained when we joined.

User avatar

Jack Staff
First Officer
First Officer
Posts: 1159
Joined: September 2016

Re: Brexit

Post by Jack Staff » 14 Jan 2019, 14:08

Manoverboard wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 13:02
If TM does lose the vote it seems that she can legitimately rerun it, perhaps again and again until ' she ' gets the result she requires.
You're kidding, right? :lol:

" Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behaviour or activity for which one criticizes another. In moral psychology, it is the failure to follow one's own expressed moral rules and principles. According to British political philosopher David Runciman, "Other kinds of hypocritical deception include claims to knowledge that one lacks, claims to a consistency that one cannot sustain, claims to a loyalty that one does not possess, claims to an identity that one does not hold". American political journalist Michael Gerson says that political hypocrisy is "the conscious use of a mask to fool the public and gain political benefit". "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
Testiculi ad Brexitum. XLVIII:C

User avatar

barney
Senior First Officer
Senior First Officer
Posts: 2321
Joined: March 2013
Location: Instow Devon

Re: Brexit

Post by barney » 14 Jan 2019, 15:19

As usual, we agree Jack.
The 'conscious use of a mask to fool the public' was enacted the day after the result if the referendum.
Many MPs on the remain side had decided by then ,that they would, under no circumstances get involved with mechanisms of leaving the EU and do everything in their power to stop it.

Bearing in mind that there was a 'shock' election in 2017, both Labour and Conservative MPs stood on a manifesto pledge of honouring the result of the 2016 referendum.
The Liberals and Greens were honest enough to say that they opposed the result and would stand against leaving the EU.
Over 85% of the electorate who voted, cast their vote for one or the other of these parties.
So, in my book, that is an overwhelming mandate to leave.

Greive, Soubry, Woolaston, Lammy, Kinnock …. the list is endless … all stood for election on a manifesto pledge of honouring the result.
Had they resigned the whip and stood as independents, that would have been honourable, but stand for a party with absolutely no intention of carrying out the manifesto promise is the ultimate in rank hypocrisy.

At least we can all agree on that. :thumbup:

Return to “General Chat”