Auto Tipping is Rearing its Head Again

[Mervyn and Trish]

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4816

P&O Fires crew for walkout
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4893

P&O always says that 100% goes to the intended crew (5 ranks) My post was to describe the flawed bonus system where you need to get excellent to get the bonus. While most of the targets are in the 90%, how do you expect crew to achieve when ticking Good Means only 75% score. Isn't this system flawed

If everyone paid the Auto Grats. on a big ship like Azura P&O will collect 3096*7*30 equal to 6,50,160 pounds in a month. Total crew benefiting from this system is about 220 restaurant staff and 80 cabin stewards. While including max bonus the crew can earn max approx around 1200 pounds, the real they earn is around 20% lower around 1000 pounds. Junior waiters earn around half of waiters pay per month.So if i take average 1000 pounds pay per month for all 300 crew, P&O has to pay 3,00,000 pounds per month. While they collect 6,50,160 from Auto Gratuities. So even if 50% opt out P&O will still have 3,25,080 to pay for the salaries. So P&O doesn't pay a pence from their pocket.

Including Auto Gratuities in the cruise price will only lead to more cheating by P&O

Isn't this a SCAM

Welcome to the forum ccc666. And boy have you walked straight into the fire! Tips and dress codes are the unexploded bombs of this, as possibly every, cruising forum and Facebook group.

I'm happy to reward good service but worry if it's true that less than excellent scores from someone else give P&O an excuse to trouser the gratuity I handed over intending it for the people who looked after me.

The trouble is it's rumours and smoke and mirrors and it's hard to get behind the different rumours and counter rumours. For every one there is another that argues the opposite and P&O seem reluctant to clear up the misconceptions.

And with new cruisers less familiar with the old traditions and more likely to have the autotips removed they'll just keep escalating with those who do pay picking up the shortfall.

That's why I firmly believe tips should be scrapped and included in the fare so we all pay the same. They can then get on with performance managing their staff without involving me!

I've written to Paul Ludlow to tell him that. If I get a reply at all I'm guessing it will be from the spin doctors and will actually say nothing.

[Stephen]

Welcome cccc666 from me too.

It can get a little heated at times with many different opinions being aired, but I like to think we are a friendly lot.......apart from Merv

I'm not one to spread rumours but be careful what you say on here if someone called Onelife posts

[Mervyn and Trish]

And watch out for Stephen. Essex boy. Need I say more!

[Stephen]

And watch out for Stephen. Essex boy. Need I say more!

[CaroleF]

Until this latest furore we've never considered not going with Auto Tipping. There have been two increases now within a fairly short time. Then this latest thing about letters being delivered to cabins asking people to reconsider removing auto tips I do find outrageous. We have a 14 night Oceana cruise coming up in September and I think we may well remove the tips and tip the recommended amount to the waiters and cabin stewards in envelopes, assuming we get the expected good service. It's a nuisance having to take cash for tips but it's not that difficult so I think that's what we'll do. Auto tips are very convenient but I'm beginning to feel our goodwill is being taken for granted. We've always been happy to tip and we will continue to do so without the company telling us what to do.

Carole

[daib GC]

Until this latest furore we've never considered not going with Auto Tipping. There have been two increases now within a fairly short time. Then this latest thing about letters being delivered to cabins asking people to reconsider removing auto tips I do find outrageous. We have a 14 night Oceana cruise coming up in September and I think we may well remove the tips and tip the recommended amount to the waiters and cabin stewards in envelopes, assuming we get the expected good service. It's a nuisance having to take cash for tips but it's not that difficult so I think that's what we'll do. Auto tips are very convenient but I'm beginning to feel our goodwill is being taken for granted. We've always been happy to tip and we will continue to do so without the company telling us what to do.

Carole

I have no problem at all with people not auto tipping and then doing the envelope thing. However I do have a concern that the staff on freedom dining are missing out. As has been said by some you can ask for the same section every evening and so get the same team. But on the big ships two thirds of the cruisers are in freedom.

[towny44]

Until this latest furore we've never considered not going with Auto Tipping. There have been two increases now within a fairly short time. Then this latest thing about letters being delivered to cabins asking people to reconsider removing auto tips I do find outrageous. We have a 14 night Oceana cruise coming up in September and I think we may well remove the tips and tip the recommended amount to the waiters and cabin stewards in envelopes, assuming we get the expected good service. It's a nuisance having to take cash for tips but it's not that difficult so I think that's what we'll do. Auto tips are very convenient but I'm beginning to feel our goodwill is being taken for granted. We've always been happy to tip and we will continue to do so without the company telling us what to do.

Carole

I have no problem at all with people not auto tipping and then doing the envelope thing. However I do have a concern that the staff on freedom dining are missing out. As has been said by some you can ask for the same section every evening and so get the same team. But on the big ships two thirds of the cruisers are in freedom.

All very laudable Dai but why should it be the responsibility of passengers to ensure certain staff receive an adequate wage?

[Manoverboard]

All very laudable Dai but why should it be the responsibility of passengers to ensure certain staff receive an adequate wage?

Dai is right, the autotip takes care of everybody whereas the fiver in an envelope goes into the pocket of the waiter in the MDR.

What happens if you decide to have a curry in the Buffet and a couple of meals in Sindhus ?

[david63]

and a couple of meals in Sindhus

I was under the impression, and I may be wrong, that the staff in the Select dining venues were compensated out of the additional charge - I have never tipped anyone in a Select dining venue.

I do see the problem with Freedom dining, which it is claimed is the reason for introducing "Auto tips", but as I do not use Freedom dining then that is not an issue for me either. Incidentally I do not use the buffet either so I see no need for me to tip the staff in there.

[oldbluefox]

Just include tips in the price of the cruise then there are no concerns about anomalies, who has paid and who gets what.

[Stephen]

Why are we all so obsessed with what crew earn and tipping. And why the hell does anyone need tipping for doing they're job in the first place. Do you all go into the local super market when abroad and quiz the staff and say, 'oh you poor thing, is that all you get paid, here have some money on me'. No

[towny44]

Why are we all so obsessed with what crew earn and tipping. And why the hell does anyone need tipping for doing they're job in the first place. Do you all go into the local super market when abroad and quiz the staff and say, 'oh you poor thing, is that all you get paid, here have some money on me'. No

I want Stephen as the Yorkshire mayor, if we can ever decide to have one.

[daib GC]

and a couple of meals in Sindhus

I was under the impression, and I may be wrong, that the staff in the Select dining venues were compensated out of the additional charge - I have never tipped anyone in a Select dining venue.

I do see the problem with Freedom dining, which it is claimed is the reason for introducing "Auto tips", but as I do not use Freedom dining then that is not an issue for me either. Incidentally I do not use the buffet either so I see no need for me to tip the staff in there.

Yes I think the extra cost of speciality restaurants pays tips. I have never tipped there. I do give a general tip to the staff in the Epicurean if I am in a suite and have breakfast there.

[Onelife]

Why are we all so obsessed with what crew earn and tipping. And why the hell does anyone need tipping for doing they're job in the first place. Do you all go into the local super market when abroad and quiz the staff and say, 'oh you poor thing, is that all you get paid, here have some money on me'. No

I want Stephen as the Yorkshire mayor, if we can ever decide to have one.

Hung, Drawn and Quartered from York Castle would be my preference..

[Stephen]

Why are we all so obsessed with what crew earn and tipping. And why the hell does anyone need tipping for doing they're job in the first place. Do you all go into the local super market when abroad and quiz the staff and say, 'oh you poor thing, is that all you get paid, here have some money on me'. No

I want Stephen as the Yorkshire mayor, if we can ever decide to have one.

Hung, Drawn and Quartered from York Castle would be my preference..

Could be worse, I could start wearing a flat cap and going Ay oop

[barney]

All very laudable Dai but why should it be the responsibility of passengers to ensure certain staff receive an adequate wage?

Dai is right, the autotip takes care of everybody whereas the fiver in an envelope goes into the pocket of the waiter in the MDR.

What happens if you decide to have a curry in the Buffet and a couple of meals in Sindhus ?

that pretty much sums up out cruises Moby.

On a 14 nighter, we'll probably eat in the MDR no more than 6 or 7 times, so on auto tip, they did pretty well out of us.
Also, we rarely eat at the same time, so therefore, rarely get the same waiter.
We've had an occasional outstanding waiter in the MDR but on the whole, they are quite rushed and offer a very basic level of service.
No more and no less than would have been expected.

I can remember a few excellent waiters when we used to do fixed dining, but not under freedom.
So, the gratuity is not for excellent service but merely adequate.
equally with the cabin stewards, I can recall one Philipino lady who was absolutely excellent, all of the others were merely doing what they get paid for.

The more that I think about this, the more I'm coming round to Stephen's way of thinking.

[Manoverboard]

and a couple of meals in Sindhus

I was under the impression, and I may be wrong, that the staff in the Select dining venues were compensated out of the additional charge - I have never tipped anyone in a Select dining venue .... .

Neither have we and for exactly the same reason.

However ... when we went on Celebrity in 2016, on ' Anytime ' Dining, the waiter related tips were split proportionately between the staff in the venues where we choose to eat. This is advised in their T&Cs.

It occurred to me that perhaps P&O do it the same way, if not the MDR guys get the pot which cannot be fair and proper.

[towny44]

According to P&O the auto grats are divided between all the wait staff in the MDRs, buffet and select venues, via the CSQ end of cruise form and the good conduct review done by senior staff. But how much they collect and whether it is all allocated to staff is the big unknown.

[Stephen]

All very laudable Dai but why should it be the responsibility of passengers to ensure certain staff receive an adequate wage?

Dai is right, the autotip takes care of everybody whereas the fiver in an envelope goes into the pocket of the waiter in the MDR.

What happens if you decide to have a curry in the Buffet and a couple of meals in Sindhus ?

that pretty much sums up out cruises Moby.

On a 14 nighter, we'll probably eat in the MDR no more than 6 or 7 times, so on auto tip, they did pretty well out of us.
Also, we rarely eat at the same time, so therefore, rarely get the same waiter.
We've had an occasional outstanding waiter in the MDR but on the whole, they are quite rushed and offer a very basic level of service.
No more and no less than would have been expected.

I can remember a few excellent waiters when we used to do fixed dining, but not under freedom.
So, the gratuity is not for excellent service but merely adequate.
equally with the cabin stewards, I can recall one Philipino lady who was absolutely excellent, all of the others were merely doing what they get paid for.

The more that I think about this, the more I'm coming round to Stephen's way of thinking.

Cough splutter......Don't do that to me barney. I nearly had a Sean Connery

[Mervyn and Trish]

According to P&O the auto grats are divided between all the wait staff in the MDRs, buffet and select venues, via the CSQ end of cruise form and the good conduct review done by senior staff. But how much they collect and whether it is all allocated to staff is the big unknown.

Therein lies my fundamental problem. If I tip, either in cash or via auto tip, I don't expect it to be witheld or reduced because someone else didn't like the service they received, or refused to tick excellent on principle.

[screwy]

Scrap it...thats what i say...

[Mervyn and Trish]

Me too.

[poole boy]

Me to it should be in the price and everybody would pay the same

[Mervyn and Trish]

Some time ago I emailed Paul Ludlow, the author of the infamous "how dare you not tip" letter, to suggest the tip system was broken and they should just stick it on the price and be done with it.

This week I got a call from someone in his office to thank me for my comments and tell me they had received a lot of correspondence on the issue.

I said I wasn't surprised as there were a lot of unhappy people. He agreed but said the problem was a lot of people were opposed to it being included in the price because then they'd be forced to pay it.

I told him that was precisely the problem. There were more and more of those people as they expanded the cruising market. Including many people who took off the auto tips and didn't pay in the old way. So on a typical two week cruise my wife and I were now paying almost £200 in total more than someone who opted out for exactly the same experience.

And that I was also angry that a tip I paid in good faith could be witheld if someone else down the corridor failed to tick the "excellent" box.

I told him our next P&O cruise isn't until 2019 but if the system hasn't changed by then we'll be first in the queue to remove the tips. He assured me our comments would be listened to.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Jan Rosser]

My son wasn't aware the tips had gone up to £7 pppd and as his eldest daughter is nearly 15 she is eligible to pay so £21 x 7 is a lot of money - I believe he is thinking of halving them and if it warrants it give a cash tip to the cabin steward - I am tempted to do the same.