any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
I think this was on the cards once Iona was in service anyway. Iona will carry more passengers than Oceana and Oriana put together and bring in more money at a lower environmental cost. All the virus has done is bring that forward. Once Iona 2 comes Aurora and/or Arcadiia will go too.
I know we bemoan the loss of small ships but they are more expensive to run. It's not about making more profit either. It's about still making a profit while cutting fares and remaining competitive in a cut throat market.
None of the mainstream lines will be running smaller ships in the future. That's going to be left to the niche operators who can charge more for the experience.
We'll have the choice. Big and cheaper. Small and more expensive.. it's just the same as Premier Inn versus boutique hotel.
I know we bemoan the loss of small ships but they are more expensive to run. It's not about making more profit either. It's about still making a profit while cutting fares and remaining competitive in a cut throat market.
None of the mainstream lines will be running smaller ships in the future. That's going to be left to the niche operators who can charge more for the experience.
We'll have the choice. Big and cheaper. Small and more expensive.. it's just the same as Premier Inn versus boutique hotel.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
How is it you are so wise Sir Merv, you have encapsulated in less than a dozen lines what legions of posters have tried to grasp on various cruise fora.Mervyn and Trish wrote: ↑09 Jul 2020, 17:28I think this was on the cards once Iona was in service anyway. Iona will carry more passengers than Oceana and Oriana put together and bring in more money at a lower environmental cost. All the virus has done is bring that forward. Once Iona 2 comes Aurora and/or Arcadiia will go too.
I know we bemoan the loss of small ships but they are more expensive to run. It's not about making more profit either. It's about still making a profit while cutting fares and remaining competitive in a cut throat market.
None of the mainstream lines will be running smaller ships in the future. That's going to be left to the niche operators who can charge more for the experience.
We'll have the choice. Big and cheaper. Small and more expensive.. it's just the same as Premier Inn versus boutique hotel.
John
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
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Topic author - Senior Second Officer
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
you might be right merv but we will never go on boats that big with all the health risks associated with it regardless of what my doctor says, so as I said before time to say thank you to p&o for some great holidays on the smaller ships and time to look ahead to some more great holidays with the smaller ships on other cruise linesMervyn and Trish wrote: ↑09 Jul 2020, 17:28I think this was on the cards once Iona was in service anyway. Iona will carry more passengers than Oceana and Oriana put together and bring in more money at a lower environmental cost. All the virus has done is bring that forward. Once Iona 2 comes Aurora and/or Arcadiia will go too.
I know we bemoan the loss of small ships but they are more expensive to run. It's not about making more profit either. It's about still making a profit while cutting fares and remaining competitive in a cut throat market.
None of the mainstream lines will be running smaller ships in the future. That's going to be left to the niche operators who can charge more for the experience.
We'll have the choice. Big and cheaper. Small and more expensive.. it's just the same as Premier Inn versus boutique hotel.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
So long as you are prepared to pay the price there is nothing wrong with that.poole boy wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 08:09you might be right merv but we will never go on boats that big with all the health risks associated with it regardless of what my doctor says, so as I said before time to say thank you to p&o for some great holidays on the smaller ships and time to look ahead to some more great holidays with the smaller ships on other cruise linesMervyn and Trish wrote: ↑09 Jul 2020, 17:28I think this was on the cards once Iona was in service anyway. Iona will carry more passengers than Oceana and Oriana put together and bring in more money at a lower environmental cost. All the virus has done is bring that forward. Once Iona 2 comes Aurora and/or Arcadiia will go too.
I know we bemoan the loss of small ships but they are more expensive to run. It's not about making more profit either. It's about still making a profit while cutting fares and remaining competitive in a cut throat market.
None of the mainstream lines will be running smaller ships in the future. That's going to be left to the niche operators who can charge more for the experience.
We'll have the choice. Big and cheaper. Small and more expensive.. it's just the same as Premier Inn versus boutique hotel.
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- Senior First Officer
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
I've copied this directly from a poster on the Cruise Critic forum - I've got the impression he's an insider - he certainly was correct about Oceana's movements in the last few days
' Today's update from the press release:
Aida to resume with all extra safety measures on board. Its the test case
.
Thirteen ships to leave fleet (one already gone, has agreements for five, and prelimiary agreements for three more. This is in addition to four sold with deferred delivery dates prior to 1 Dec 2019).
All ships to leave in next 90 days.
Only five new builds out of eight due by 30/11/21 will be delivered.
In addition new builds due in 2022/2023 will each be delayed.
Operating costs reduced by $7bn (per annum equiv.).
Capital expenditure reduced by $5bn over next 18 months.
Have secured $10bn+ of additional liquidate with further facilities available. This sustains the company for another full year.
Includes $2.8bn raised in June
Includes debt holiday on some new build debt for up to 12 months.
In addition, company has $8bn of committed credit facilities to fund new build ship deliveries that were originally due through 2023.
Monthly cash burn is now $650m.
Cash refunds represent 50% of all refunds/FCC.
For first three weeks of June, almost 60% of bookings were new. 40% were use of FCC.
2021 sales current on historical levels with slight hit on prices once adjusted for FCC etc.
At end of may, customer deposits were $2.6bn, of which $121m is for Q3 (to Aug 20) and $353 for Q4 (to Nov 30). The rest is mainly FCC.
Company have repatriated 260,000 guests and 77,000 crew.
Crew repatriation continues.
So it looks as if more ships will go and delays to new ships
' Today's update from the press release:
Aida to resume with all extra safety measures on board. Its the test case
.
Thirteen ships to leave fleet (one already gone, has agreements for five, and prelimiary agreements for three more. This is in addition to four sold with deferred delivery dates prior to 1 Dec 2019).
All ships to leave in next 90 days.
Only five new builds out of eight due by 30/11/21 will be delivered.
In addition new builds due in 2022/2023 will each be delayed.
Operating costs reduced by $7bn (per annum equiv.).
Capital expenditure reduced by $5bn over next 18 months.
Have secured $10bn+ of additional liquidate with further facilities available. This sustains the company for another full year.
Includes $2.8bn raised in June
Includes debt holiday on some new build debt for up to 12 months.
In addition, company has $8bn of committed credit facilities to fund new build ship deliveries that were originally due through 2023.
Monthly cash burn is now $650m.
Cash refunds represent 50% of all refunds/FCC.
For first three weeks of June, almost 60% of bookings were new. 40% were use of FCC.
2021 sales current on historical levels with slight hit on prices once adjusted for FCC etc.
At end of may, customer deposits were $2.6bn, of which $121m is for Q3 (to Aug 20) and $353 for Q4 (to Nov 30). The rest is mainly FCC.
Company have repatriated 260,000 guests and 77,000 crew.
Crew repatriation continues.
So it looks as if more ships will go and delays to new ships
Gill
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
If Carnival are reducing their fleets by so many, one has to assume that RCI, NCL and MSC will be doing something similar, and all the smaller cruise lines will probably be reducing their fleets as well.Gill W wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 16:36I've copied this directly from a poster on the Cruise Critic forum - I've got the impression he's an insider - he certainly was correct about Oceana's movements in the last few days
' Today's update from the press release:
Aida to resume with all extra safety measures on board. Its the test case
.
Thirteen ships to leave fleet (one already gone, has agreements for five, and prelimiary agreements for three more. This is in addition to four sold with deferred delivery dates prior to 1 Dec 2019).
All ships to leave in next 90 days.
Only five new builds out of eight due by 30/11/21 will be delivered.
In addition new builds due in 2022/2023 will each be delayed.
Operating costs reduced by $7bn (per annum equiv.).
Capital expenditure reduced by $5bn over next 18 months.
Have secured $10bn+ of additional liquidate with further facilities available. This sustains the company for another full year.
Includes $2.8bn raised in June
Includes debt holiday on some new build debt for up to 12 months.
In addition, company has $8bn of committed credit facilities to fund new build ship deliveries that were originally due through 2023.
Monthly cash burn is now $650m.
Cash refunds represent 50% of all refunds/FCC.
For first three weeks of June, almost 60% of bookings were new. 40% were use of FCC.
2021 sales current on historical levels with slight hit on prices once adjusted for FCC etc.
At end of may, customer deposits were $2.6bn, of which $121m is for Q3 (to Aug 20) and $353 for Q4 (to Nov 30). The rest is mainly FCC.
Company have repatriated 260,000 guests and 77,000 crew.
Crew repatriation continues.
So it looks as if more ships will go and delays to new ships
Should keep Heinz in baked bean cans for the next decade or more.
John
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
towny44 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2020, 17:08If Carnival are reducing their fleets by so many, one has to assume that RCI, NCL and MSC will be doing something similar, and all the smaller cruise lines will probably be reducing their fleets as well.
Should keep Heinz in baked bean cans for the next decade or more.
Last edited by Manoverboard on 10 Jul 2020, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
I’m keeping my fingers crossed Aurora is saved! We both love her - it’s our favourite ship
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Looks to me like Fred Olsen are stepping into pick up the passengers like us who will not go on the larger ships at any price as they have just bought from Holland america the Amsterdam and Rotterdam both ships just under 1500 passengers the perfect size for us
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Might be nice to try them out,when P and O get rid of Aurora and Arcadia unless they have an adult only smallish ship then I wont be sailing with them anymore.
Done nearly 30 cruises over 20 years with them but dont like the way they are going now towards the larger ships.
So it's the passengers choice .
I am seriously considering some land based tours I have been looking at Austria and Lake Garda.
Done nearly 30 cruises over 20 years with them but dont like the way they are going now towards the larger ships.
So it's the passengers choice .
I am seriously considering some land based tours I have been looking at Austria and Lake Garda.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
I’ve just posted about that on the Fred Olsen section board.
Looks like a good move from Fred.
My husband went to Lake Lucerne in Switzerland more than 50 years ago on a school trip. The local coach company are doing a tour there next year and it does sound appealing. We are waiting to see how things progress, but it does interest me.Whynd1 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 09:38Might be nice to try them out,when P and O get rid of Aurora and Arcadia unless they have an adult only smallish ship then I wont be sailing with them anymore.
Done nearly 30 cruises over 20 years with them but dont like the way they are going now towards the larger ships.
So it's the passengers choice .
I am seriously considering some land based tours I have been looking at Austria and Lake Garda.
I think Fred could mop up some disaffected P&O customers. I liked Fred when I sailed on Balmoral in 2018, and they did my refund this year in 7 weeks. The P&O refund debacle has put me off a bit.
Gill
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Fred ships have also been far more inclined to do ' Round Britain ' cruising than any other major Cruise Line, something else to consider for many.
Coach Tours a plenty we have done but be sure to choose a high quality operator for the best experience. Italy and Austria etc combinations are readily available within this sector.
Coach Tours a plenty we have done but be sure to choose a high quality operator for the best experience. Italy and Austria etc combinations are readily available within this sector.
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Carnival have, for sure, as confirmed by the Captain on Queen Victoria last year, made a clear decision to diversify their three major brands operating out of the UK - P&O, Princess and Cunard. There is no point in all three competing with each other for the same market. So on price and formality they are moving apart. And although P&O were our first, and may still be our choice on price alone when we take the family in a couple of years, Cunard or Princess are more likely choices for the two of us, along with Saga, and maybe Fred if that's the way he's going.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
If that is the case then Cunard are going to have to "up their game" with their itineraries if they want to attract ex P&O passengers, as I doubt that there will be much uptake on going backwards and forwards across the Atlantic.Mervyn and Trish wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 12:49Carnival have, for sure, as confirmed by the Captain on Queen Victoria last year, made a clear decision to diversify their three major brands operating out of the UK - P&O, Princess and Cunard.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Seems to me then that Cunard will be the high-end brand, Princess somewhere in the middle and P&O get stuck with "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap".Mervyn and Trish wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 12:49Carnival have, for sure, as confirmed by the Captain on Queen Victoria last year, made a clear decision to diversify their three major brands operating out of the UK - P&O, Princess and Cunard. There is no point in all three competing with each other for the same market. So on price and formality they are moving apart. And although P&O were our first, and may still be our choice on price alone when we take the family in a couple of years, Cunard or Princess are more likely choices for the two of us, along with Saga, and maybe Fred if that's the way he's going.
Bye P&O it's been nice knowing you.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Slightly unfair. Yes of course they only have three ships so fewer possibilities than P&O. But.only QM2 does the repeated Atlantic crossings and that only for a while in the early season. Then she does a variety of itineraries. And P&O have a rut of their own with one ship ploughing up and down Norway and another going in circles in the.Med.david63 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 13:48If that is the case then Cunard are going to have to "up their game" with their itineraries if they want to attract ex P&O passengers, as I doubt that there will be much uptake on going backwards and forwards across the Atlantic.Mervyn and Trish wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 12:49Carnival have, for sure, as confirmed by the Captain on Queen Victoria last year, made a clear decision to diversify their three major brands operating out of the UK - P&O, Princess and Cunard.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
That's pretty much it.allatc wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 14:42Seems to me then that Cunard will be the high-end brand, Princess somewhere in the middle and P&O get stuck with "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap".Mervyn and Trish wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 12:49Carnival have, for sure, as confirmed by the Captain on Queen Victoria last year, made a clear decision to diversify their three major brands operating out of the UK - P&O, Princess and Cunard. There is no point in all three competing with each other for the same market. So on price and formality they are moving apart. And although P&O were our first, and may still be our choice on price alone when we take the family in a couple of years, Cunard or Princess are more likely choices for the two of us, along with Saga, and maybe Fred if that's the way he's going.
Bye P&O it's been nice knowing you.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Never cruised with Fred Olsen - what are they like?
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Older smaller ships, not many balconies and cabin furniture slightly old fashioned, fixed dining and limited alternative dining, but food a bit better than P&O. Similar onboard activities to P&O and similar passengers to the Aurora/Arcadia passengers or other ships outside of the school holidays. Itineraries tend to be a lot more interesting than P&O.
I went on Balmoral in 2018, and really enjoyed the cruise. I was due on Boudicca on March, but, of course, it didn't happen.
I think Fred are a good choice for P&O regulars, who feel like a change
Gill
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
What Gill said - slightly faded decor, a bit like a slightly old-fashioned hotel. Mainly very elderly passengers, often well-educated, well travelled and interesting, but some middle-aged and early retired people as well. Some of the cabins we've had on Balmoral were pretty large (in January 2019 we had a suite, number 1017, with a balcony that we measured at about 40 feet wide, 15 feet deep; it was quite extraordinary). Staff the usual lovely mix, food ok, but then I rate all ship food as ok, after all it's mass catering. We've also had an outside (superior ocean view) on Balmoral that was bigger than the equivalents on Cunard or P&O. Not been on any of the other Olsen ships.
Gather from reading recent posts that their pricing has become somewhat steep - not sure it's worth a premium price.
Oh, and the library on board is dire (if it still exists - in early 2019 it looked like they were trying to quietly get rid of it by not stocking any books)
Last edited by anniec on 16 Jul 2020, 16:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Click the ' link ' for all things Fred, including a number of Cruise Reports
ps ... I agree 100% with Gill's comments as above.
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
You may like to read a review I done on the Fred Olsen section it's fairly current (Braemar 17 January Amazon on page 2). On the two we have been on there were older passengers but still plenty of 50ish (I'm 66) to have company in the evening for the quiz or dancing We were going to bed about 1pm. We really enjoyed them both. Braemar is now my favourite ship.
They are more expensive and if you like "bling" then avoid them. The lounges were comfortable and always managed to get a seat perhaps because the oldies had gone to bed
Last edited by Happydays on 16 Jul 2020, 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
The page number depends on how one has set up one's display ... Click here to read the Report from ' Happydays '.Happydays wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020, 16:36You may like to read a review I done on the Fred Olsen section it's fairly current (Braemar 17 January Amazon on page 2). On the two we have been on there were older passengers but still plenty of 50ish (I'm 66) to have company in the evening for the quiz or dancing We were going to bed about 1pm. We really enjoyed them both. Braemar is now my favourite ship.
They are more expensive and if you like "bling" then avoid them. The lounges were comfortable and always managed to get a seat perhaps because the oldies had gone to bed
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Keep smiling, it's good for your well being
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Re: any ideas which ships carnival want to dispose of
Our first cruise was with FO on Braemar back in 2003 and then we went back in the summer of 2018 same ship, same cabin, a Balcony Suite, which was about the size of a normal balcony cabin on Aurora. One of the troubles with Fred has always been the lack of balconies and the premium price they charge. I don't know the Holland America ships but I assume they have more balconies. Am I right in saying the two that are going to Fred are two of the R class ships, the same as the old Adonia that went to Azmara and is now Azmara Pursuit? The difference in time between our two Fred cruises, in the same cabin highlighted for us that we got much more for our money with P&O - definitely bigger cabins, much more entertainment. The food on Fred we thought was definitely better than P&O, the staff are excellent, always smiling, always helpful. Our 2018 cruise was a Round Britain cruise which was excellent. Because it was a Southampton/Southampton cruise the majority of passengers were elderly - I say this as someone who was 71 at the time, and felt quite young in comparison. I think, depending on the price we would certainly try one of the two 'new' ships. At the moment if P&O get rid of Arcadia and Aurora then it's Goodbye P&O. We have a cruise booked on Saga's Spirit of Discovery which was moved from this last Easter to next May, if it goes ahead! I wonder which ships Fred will get rid of assuming he needs to do this.
Carole
Carole