Life After Brexit

[oldbluefox]

As anybody who has actually checked knows, Osborne spent the weekend in discussions with the BoE trying to carry out damage limitation -

Sorry missed that. I didn't get the invitation to the meeting.

I think that's the same Remainer Osborne who threw his toys out of the pram, picked up his bat and went to work for the Evening Standard.

[Kendhni]

Try as I may, I cannot find one single instance of a promise to spend £350 million on the NHS.
I recall a slogan on a bus but didn’t see any mention of a promise.
So that’s another remainer lie to add to the list.
As for the other quotes, I have no recollection but I suppose there must be evidence of those exact phrases or that would be yet another remainer lie, wouldn’t it.

Are you seriously going to go with the above post? If so, it proves something I have long suspected, you read a headline but never the story and that you are wallowing in a pit of denial and ignorance. I really expected more.

Remainer lie???? more like brexiteer lack of knowledge .... a simple one for starters (google search top of list)
https://www.facebook.com/BestForBritain ... 779908548/

I don't want to make you look silly, but maybe do you want to accept that brexiteer lack of knowledge does not equate to remainer actual knowledge.

[Kendhni]

As anybody who has actually checked knows, Osborne spent the weekend in discussions with the BoE trying to carry out damage limitation -

Sorry missed that. I didn't get the invitation to the meeting.

Nor did I, but fortunately it was widely reported.

[oldbluefox]

I don't want to make you look silly, but maybe do you want to accept that brexiteer lack of knowledge does not equate to remainer actual knowledge.

I am just so grateful to Ken and the rest of the Remainers for sharing their superior knowledge with the ignorant peasants who had the temerity of voting for Brexit against their wishes.
Sorry for the sarcasm but I am getting heartily tired of hearing that those who voted for Brexit did not know what they were doing but the Remainers did. I find it presumptuous and condescending. Difference of opinion is fine. Trying to use difference as a lack of education and understanding from a jaundiced few is not.

[barney]

Try as I may, I cannot find one single instance of a promise to spend £350 million on the NHS.
I recall a slogan on a bus but didn’t see any mention of a promise.
So that’s another remainer lie to add to the list.
As for the other quotes, I have no recollection but I suppose there must be evidence of those exact phrases or that would be yet another remainer lie, wouldn’t it.

Are you seriously going to go with the above post? If so, it proves something I have long suspected, you read a headline but never the story and that you are wallowing in a pit of denial and ignorance. I really expected more.

Remainer lie???? more like brexiteer lack of knowledge .... a simple one for starters (google search top of list)
https://www.facebook.com/BestForBritain ... 779908548/

I don't want to make you look silly, but maybe do you want to accept that brexiteer lack of knowledge does not equate to remainer actual knowledge.

Please don't expect more
Continue to have low expectations.
I'm not the type to trawl Facebook or Twitter so was unaware of that clip.
That is embarrassing for dear old Johnson when it's now become quite clear that he doesn't give a monkey's cuss whether we leave with a deal or not.

Can you now (if you have time) supply the evidence of the promise of £350 million for the NHS because I also missed that one.
Cheers

[Kendhni]

Can you now (if you have time) supply the evidence of the promise of £350 million for the NHS because I also missed that one.
Cheers

Certainly, maybe start by looking at the poster that Johnson used while on the referendum trail
https://jonworth.eu/the-two-versions-of ... hs-slogan/

'Let's give the NHS the £350million the EU takes every week' - well he asked to be allowed to do it, he is in power and has been given the chance to do it. What is his excuse for not delivering? Not only was the number used a total fabrication but the premise it was built on was a total lie deliberately designed to feed on public gullibility.

Or what about the statement from the brexit contract of lies
"The Government and Vote Leave have promised to increase investment in public services from the intended savings from
ceasing to make contributions to the EU budget, including £350m a week to the NHS."


Johnson would have to be clutching desperately at straws to weasle his way out of that - but I am sure he will. There is no saving, there is nothing to dish out to the NHS, unless he takes the money from somewhere else ... or increases taxes or national insurance or vat (oh wait a minute that was another Johnson promise, he promised he would not increase those - so probably not worth the paper it was written on).


BTW the clip was obviously from the house of commons, was reported widely on the news channels and media - just so happened to be the first instance that popped up in my search (I do not do twitter or facebook either).

[Manoverboard]

Does anybody know anybody who voted to ' Leave ' because of anything to do with NHS funding, I certainly don't.

[Kendhni]

Does anybody know anybody who voted to ' Leave ' because of anything to do with NHS funding, I certainly don't.

It was the basis of one of the top 4 reasons why brexiteers claimed they voted to leave. Working from memory, I think these were
- Immigration (approx 40%)
- sovereignty (approx 33%)
- economical (approx 23%)
- to teach the government a lesson (approx 4%)

At the time of the referendum over 60% of brexit voters believed the £350million for the NHS claim was true - this dropped to about 42% by 2018.

[Manoverboard]

Does anybody know anybody who voted to ' Leave ' because of anything to do with NHS funding, I certainly don't.

It was the basis of one of the top 4 reasons why brexiteers claimed they voted to leave. Working from memory, I think these were
- Immigration (approx 40%)
- sovereignty (approx 33%)
- economical (approx 23%)
- to teach the government a lesson (approx 4%)

At the time of the referendum over 60% of brexit voters believed the £350million for the NHS claim was true - this dropped to about 42% by 2018.

I accept that the percentage of voters thought it was true but that does not equate to their reason for voting to Leave.

[oldbluefox]

At the time of the referendum over 60% of brexit voters believed the £350million for the NHS claim was true - this dropped to about 42% by 2018.

Are these more of your 'from memory' figures Ken or do you have evidence because that is certainly not my understanding? Nobody I know saw it other than an example of where else the money could be better spent.

[Kendhni]

At the time of the referendum over 60% of brexit voters believed the £350million for the NHS claim was true - this dropped to about 42% by 2018.

Are these more of your 'from memory' figures Ken or do you have evidence because that is certainly not my understanding? Nobody I know saw it other than an example of where else the money could be better spent.

I am working from memory and you have made me doubt the first figure which may actually have been related to one of the immigration claims. If so then the NHS figure would be about 45-50%. Remind me later and I will dig out a reference to this.

[oldbluefox]

Thanks Ken. The exact wording would be interesting since a belief in what was on the bus does not ring true and is a figure I have never seen. Immigration yes but the bus? People aren't that daft even if Remainers think they are!!!

[Ray Scully]

Thanks Ken. The exact wording would be interesting since a belief in what was on the bus does not ring true and is a figure I have never seen. Immigration yes but the bus? People aren't that daft even if Remainers think they are!!!

Well lets just hope that the "reasonable and fair deal" Johnson promised turns out to have more credibility than the £350 mill slogan on the bus.

[Onelife]

I’m not convinced Boris will have had much to do with it but I think our negotiators are playing a blinder by saying we are prepared to walk rather than become subservient to the whims of the EU.

The rule of law has to be fair to all parties and what the EU has in mind isn’t fair, nor would any of the countries see it as being fair either if they were in our position.

I can’t help thinking this scenario was conceived before the deal signing…. “let’s get this over the line” will have been at the forefront of our negotiator’s minds, anything thereafter will be up for further negotiation… including our interpretation of what the rules mean to our future.

I’m confident a deal will be struck, not to do so would be biting off their noses to spite their face….yes it will hurt if we are forced to walk but Merkel won’t allow this to happen imo… at the end of the day business/trade is what keeps the wheels turning on both sides of the channel…. losing 20% of the German car manufacturing work force will be too much of a pill to swallow.

Stay strong and we will get a good trade deal, give in and we will forever be seen as the country that sold its self out.

[oldbluefox]

Thanks Ken. The exact wording would be interesting since a belief in what was on the bus does not ring true and is a figure I have never seen. Immigration yes but the bus? People aren't that daft even if Remainers think they are!!!

Well lets just hope that the "reasonable and fair deal" Johnson promised turns out to have more credibility than the £350 mill slogan on the bus.

At least the prophesied collapse of the economy didn't happen after the Brexit vote.......and Obama put us back at the front of the queue instead of the back.

[oldbluefox]

I’m not convinced Boris will have had much to do with it but I think our negotiators are playing a blinder by saying we are prepared to walk rather than become subservient to the whims of the EU.

The rule of law has to be fair to all parties and what the EU has in mind isn’t fair, nor would any of the countries see it as being fair either if they were in our position.

I can’t help thinking this scenario was conceived before the deal signing…. “let’s get this over the line” will have been at the forefront of our negotiator’s minds, anything thereafter will be up for further negotiation… including our interpretation of what the rules mean to our future.

I’m confident a deal will be struck, not to do so would be biting off their noses to spite their face….yes it will hurt if we are forced to walk but Merkel won’t allow this to happen imo… at the end of the day business/trade is what keeps the wheels turning on both sides of the channel…. losing 20% of the German car manufacturing work force will be too much of a pill to swallow.

Stay strong and we will get a good trade deal, give in and we will forever be seen as the country that sold its self out.

Going to go and have a lie down!!! I agree with Onelife!!!!
The answer to all of this is a free trade deal with the EU. It solves the NI problem and makes sense so why are the EU persisting in wanting to hold sway over us?

[barney]

I’m not convinced Boris will have had much to do with it but I think our negotiators are playing a blinder by saying we are prepared to walk rather than become subservient to the whims of the EU.

The rule of law has to be fair to all parties and what the EU has in mind isn’t fair, nor would any of the countries see it as being fair either if they were in our position.

I can’t help thinking this scenario was conceived before the deal signing…. “let’s get this over the line” will have been at the forefront of our negotiator’s minds, anything thereafter will be up for further negotiation… including our interpretation of what the rules mean to our future.

I’m confident a deal will be struck, not to do so would be biting off their noses to spite their face….yes it will hurt if we are forced to walk but Merkel won’t allow this to happen imo… at the end of the day business/trade is what keeps the wheels turning on both sides of the channel…. losing 20% of the German car manufacturing work force will be too much of a pill to swallow.

Stay strong and we will get a good trade deal, give in and we will forever be seen as the country that sold its self out.

Going to go and have a lie down!!! I agree with Onelife!!!!
The answer to all of this is a free trade deal with the EU. It solves the NI problem and makes sense so why are the EU persisting in wanting to hold sway over us?

Being a very reasonable person, I can fully understand everything from the European Union’s perspective.
If they made it too easy for a major player like the U.K. to leave and strike a trade deal, it would send out the wrong message.
My theory is that both sides have underestimated each other.
From the Eu perspective, it was initially one way traffic with TM rolling over at every occasion.
To even agree the sequencing was a mistake in my opinion.
Then TM was deposed and everything changed.

They have still to come to terms with the new situation.

Given time, I’m pretty sure that even they will ultimately admit that the U.K. leaving is good for the Eu project overall and hopefully we can become good neighbours.

I’m not as sure as Onelife about a trade agreement before we depart, but one thing is 100% guaranteed, and that is that the Eu will be keen to sort one out after the financial impact hits.
The U.K., as we all know, is a massive consumer nation.
Just look at the impact on european tourism from the U.K. since covid.
Anything they do to make things difficult in the future will be to the detriment of their economy.

Then there is the City of London issue that hasn’t been sorted.
By now, thousands and thousands of jobs will have moved to Europe, except that they haven’t and never will.

There’s still a lot to discuss and compromise on.
At some stage the Eu will have to compromise.

[Ray Scully]

[
[/quote]
Going to go and have a lie down!!! I agree with Onelife!!!!
The answer to all of this is a free trade deal with the EU. It solves the NI problem and makes sense so why are the EU persisting in wanting to hold sway over us?
[/quote]

Heaven forbid but perhaps they feel they have the better hand. Back in the day when I negotiated contracts this was always a factor. The skill is getting the deal without *******ing up your relationship.

[Kendhni]

Thanks Ken. The exact wording would be interesting since a belief in what was on the bus does not ring true and is a figure I have never seen. Immigration yes but the bus? People aren't that daft even if Remainers think they are!!!

Well lets just hope that the "reasonable and fair deal" Johnson promised turns out to have more credibility than the £350 mill slogan on the bus.

At least the prophesied collapse of the economy didn't happen after the Brexit vote.......and Obama put us back at the front of the queue instead of the back.

There is a slight difference in that those that prophesised economical issues spent a lot of time and effort putting in place what was needed to stop their prophecies from coming true. On the other hand those responsible for messages like £350million per week to the health service' are now trying to sweep them under the carpet.

[Kendhni]

The answer to all of this is a free trade deal with the EU. It solves the NI problem and makes sense so why are the EU persisting in wanting to hold sway over us?

I am not sure it will
https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2019/0 ... r-problem/

[towny44]

[

Going to go and have a lie down!!! I agree with Onelife!!!!
The answer to all of this is a free trade deal with the EU. It solves the NI problem and makes sense so why are the EU persisting in wanting to hold sway over us?
[/quote]

Heaven forbid but perhaps they feel they have the better hand. Back in the day when I negotiated contracts this was always a factor. The skill is getting the deal without *******ing up your relationship.
[/quote]
The skill in negotiating is to achieve a deal that benefits both parties, no lopsided agreement has ever stood the test of time, outside of religion.

[Kendhni]

Thanks Ken. The exact wording would be interesting since a belief in what was on the bus does not ring true and is a figure I have never seen. Immigration yes but the bus? People aren't that daft even if Remainers think they are!!!

I did say I would get back to you but everything I am finding is behind firewalls.
Not a source I generally like using (and not the article I was looking for) but they at least show some of the numbers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 03646.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 85016.html

These articles talk about all voters (47% claimed to believe the £350million message in 2016), I am still trying to find the article that shows the number split by remain and brexit voters (naturally/logically it was slightly higher (maybe a couple of points) than the average for brexit voters and slightly lower for remain voters).

[towny44]

Well lets just hope that the "reasonable and fair deal" Johnson promised turns out to have more credibility than the £350 mill slogan on the bus.

At least the prophesied collapse of the economy didn't happen after the Brexit vote.......and Obama put us back at the front of the queue instead of the back.

There is a slight difference in that those that prophesised economical issues spent a lot of time and effort putting in place what was needed to stop their prophecies from coming true. On the other hand those responsible for messages like £350million per week to the health service' are now trying to sweep them under the carpet.

Ken, the job of the B of E is to ensure a stable economy within the parameters set by the govt., so they would have only been doing what they were paid to do, they were never going above and beyond that brief.

[screwy]

All of them, start again without talking to people like imbeciles..
Not you Mob.

[Kendhni]

At least the prophesied collapse of the economy didn't happen after the Brexit vote.......and Obama put us back at the front of the queue instead of the back.

There is a slight difference in that those that prophesised economical issues spent a lot of time and effort putting in place what was needed to stop their prophecies from coming true. On the other hand those responsible for messages like £350million per week to the health service' are now trying to sweep them under the carpet.

Ken, the job of the B of E is to ensure a stable economy within the parameters set by the govt., so they would have only been doing what they were paid to do, they were never going above and beyond that brief.

I agree to a certain degree, but the referendum result meant that they were forced into the position of having to take direct action to stop a run on the pound and protect the economy. This included various 'guarantor' announcements and QE. Some would say that the action they took is what mitigated the impact to our economy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789