Woolwich Attack

[Mo2013]

I agree wholeheartedly that those who preach hate and violence should be immediately deported as a danger to the country, and if they were born here, which country would have them? And would that give someone else an excuse to target Britain? We are supposed to be a tolerant country but yet some people only seem to target Muslims being here and living their lives. A lot of it does sound racist and bigoted yet people will think, no I'm not, but it is clear that there is a lot of resentment. Most Asians are very hard-working and have strong family values. A waiter in the Asian restaurant I go to work in a bank during the week and in the restaurant at the weekend. Some people don't even like British workers going on strike for what they see as their rights, never mind about Muslims and their rights. If Muslims feel they are being discriminated against, then of course they are going to stand up for their rights just like any of us would stand up for our rights. I understand that Muslims can take leave of the workplace to pray, but then British smokers leave the workplace to have a fag break. I worked with a woman, who, when I added it up, worked 50 minutes a week less than me by nipping out for a fag. I just despair of knee-jerk reactions which do not help, because not all Muslims are like the bombers but the country does need to tackle those who would harm us and there must be a line which, if crossed, means that you are no longer welcome to reside in this country.

[Gill W]

Britain has been far too tolerant for far too long. Any muslim who preaches hatred and/or violence towards 'the infidel' should be firstly detained and then deported to a muslim country. We need to stop building mosques and get rid of the ridiculous Human Rights laws that prevent us from kicking these people out. It is only ever the muslims jumping up and down about what they think they should be given. Enough.

I don't think the prohibition on the buildings of mosques is the answer.

That is almost outlawing a whole religion. Even in predominantly Muslim countries, there are Christian churches. It would be incredibly intolerant to stop building places for people to worship in.

Hate is not preached in your average mosque. It's normally preached by some radical off shoot group,meeting in the local community centre.

That is what needs to be stamped out, and hate is not something that is preached just by radical Muslims, all religions, political groups and ethnic groups have done this at some point in history.

The girl who sits next to me happens to be Muslim. She's just like you and me, except that she wears a scarf and follows a different religion. Why should she be afraid in her own country, and feel that she is not welcome to follow her beliefs just because of the actions of a few nutcases.

She doesn't expect to be treated any differently.

Incidentally her family does celebrate Christmas as they regard it as the birth of a prophet. And she takes part in the Secret Santa!

[Silver_Shiney]

Even in predominantly Muslim countries, there are Christian churches.

Only churches that have been there a VERY long time - and even those are under pressure to close. No new churches are allowed. Many Muslim countries won't allow churches at all - Saudi Arabia for one.

One such country has a law that a church may not be built within a certain distance from a mosque. I read the other day of a group of Christians (I can't remember which country it was) who owned land a fair distance from anywhere and applied for permission to build a place of worship. The application was delayed, to give the authorities time to build a mosque nearby, thus enabling them to refuse permission.

[HK phooey]

Gill, how do you know what is preached in an average mosque? It makes my blood boil to read of 'muslim' patrols walking our streets, abusing people and telling them that they are in a 'muslim area'. Why should these people be afraid in their own country? How was it ever allowed to happen that whole towns have become no go areas for non muslims?

[Gill W]

Gill, how do you know what is preached in an average mosque? It makes my blood boil to read of 'muslim' patrols walking our streets, abusing people and telling them that they are in a 'muslim area'. Why should these people be afraid in their own country? How was it ever allowed to happen that whole towns have become no go areas for non muslims?

I've spoken to the girl who sits next to me quite a lot about religion, and it seems that most muslims go to mosque like a Christian goes to church - to worship God, for companionship and community and to see their friends, not for a dose of intolerance and hatred

You ask why should people be afraid in their own country - that goes for all faiths, and all colours. My workmate was born in Britain, has a British passport, and is as British as of all of us. She's now feeling rather nervous of going about her day to day life, when all she wants to do, like all of us, is quietly get on with her life.

In the last few days there's been several instances of criminal damage and abuse directed towards muslims. That's just as wrong as muslims intimidating other groups.

But it's always the extremist minority that gets the headlines, not the vast tolerant majority.
I hate to see what is happening - and I think it'll get worse, but it's not just muslims that are to blame - it is all sections of society

[HK phooey]

Yes Gill, I'm sure the girl you work with is a perfectly nice person. It's not people like her that are the problem.

[Gill W]

It's the radical nutters on all sides that have got to be dealt with.

I'm just worried that everyone who is a muslim is going to be tarred with the radical nutter brush

[Meg 50]

and not just the muslims - any one who looks like they might be - so Asian looking Christians, Hindus and Sikhs - etc etc are having to watch their backs

[Serendipity]

It does seem to be young Muslims who are carrying out these atrocities so I guess that is why there is animosity towards Muslims.
I know they are not all the same but many are a threat due to the preachers who have an influence on them.
The wearing of the burka to me is not acceptable, when in Rome do as the Romans do.
If foreigners want to be accepted in the UK then it is on our terms not theirs.

[Dancing Queen]

Very true Meg, it's very sad that that "the ignorant" will tar everyone with the same brush, I feel very angry that an innocent man died in such an horrific way, I feel angry that our soldiers are being killed daily when they are protecting us and our Country and the "ignorant" do not help the situation, I don't think that sort of person can be educated to accept what many of us do that not all Muslims are the same.

I've just been listening to the evening news and a relative of Michael Adebolago is blaming the government over an incident that happened in Kenya a couple of years ago and saying he has "gone this way" because he didn't get the assistance he felt he should have when he was arrested at the Kenyan border, apparently he was on his way to join one of these terrorists camps ??? No doubt the defence lawyers will be going down this route

What wasn't being said is what has been reported in todays papers that Adebolago was a known associate of Anjem Choudary the radical muslim cleric as early as 2007.

[Mo2013]

Without doubt there are definitely some very ignorant British people.

When in Rome ? What about those women who have been born here who have a right to practice their traditions? We are a tolerant multi-cultural society which has allowed people freedom and individuality but it is clear that there are a great many people who have no tolerance whatsoever. Women who wear a burqa have the right to wear a burqa in accordance with tradition or in keeping with the Quran. Only the husband and other male members of the family are supposed to look at her. It is to do with modesty and not displaying one's beauty and not showing anything of oneself to other (unknown) men. In India, for example, young, unmarried women or young, married women in their first years of marriage are required to wear the burqa. However, after this the husband usually decides if his wife should continue to wear a burqa. Laws have been passed in France, Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands that forbids anyone (religion is nothing to do with it) from wearing anything which conceals their identity. So, until this country passes a law that forbids anyone from concealing their identity in a public place, then women wishing to wear a burqa, have a right to do so. As I said earlier in this thread, anyone feeling strongly about such issues should write to their MP to express their concerns.

[Dancing Queen]

I'm afraid I do agree with the "When in Rome" if we British go to any Asian country then we have to abide by their rules and regulations.

I particularly remember visiting the Meadowhall Shopping centre shortly after 7/7 and seeing more women wearing the burqa than ever before ( I felt very threatened ) did I imagine it ?? I don't think so, I worked in Sheffield for many years it has a very high population of the Asian community but this just struck me that a point was being made and lets face it some of these "radicals" would actually order their wives to go out and about to be seen ( or not when wearing the burqa )

Sadly some of these women may be British by birth but they do not have the choice, maybe it's time that we adopt the same laws as France, Belgium etc.

[Serendipity]

Some very rude people as well.
I, as a British citizen, have a right to an opinion.
I feel uncomfortable with a person who only has their eyes showing from within an outfit.
I am not ashamed of saying that I find the current state oif affairs in the UK frightening, the reason I feel this way is down to the Islamic preachers who find beheading an innocent man acceptable. Planting bombs where they can maim and cause devastation to so many.

[Mo2013]

If a Briton went to another country and was allowed to practise one's own particular traditions, then of course one would. If you went to Saudi for example and you were allowed to drink in public, you would, even if the indigenous people were not. Wearing particular robes and a burqa is not against our laws, it's just that people don't like the practice. There is no law in this country which prohibits Muslim women from wearing a burqa and until such time as Britain passes a law which prohibits any person from wearing anything which conceals their identity, things will carry on as before. Preachers of hate, and those who appear to condone or glorify the dreadful deeds of others, should be considered enemies of the state.

[Mo2013]

Some very rude people as well.
I, as a British citizen, have a right to an opinion.
I feel uncomfortable with a person who only has their eyes showing from within an outfit.
I am not ashamed of saying that I find the current state oif affairs in the UK frightening, the reason I feel this way is down to the Islamic preachers who find beheading an innocent man acceptable. Planting bombs where they can maim and cause devastation to so many.

Firstly, this is a free country where everyone has choices. I think you are forgetting that some of these women are also British citizens and in a free democratic country, they have every right to wear what they wish in accordance with their faith and traditions. You just don't like it but I am sure they are not doing it just to annoy you, furthermore, it is not their problem that you feel uncomfortable. I am sure that a lot of people are feeling frightened and apprehensive and one must hope that our government will now implement new measures to deal with rabble-rousers and sowers of hate and conflict. Write to your MP.

[Dancing Queen]

Some very rude people as well.
I, as a British citizen, have a right to an opinion.
I feel uncomfortable with a person who only has their eyes showing from within an outfit.
I am not ashamed of saying that I find the current state oif affairs in the UK frightening, the reason I feel this way is down to the Islamic preachers who find beheading an innocent man acceptable. Planting bombs where they can maim and cause devastation to so many.

I quite agree with you Serendipity, none of us want to deny people the right to be who they are but it doesn't help the situation does it, like you I find it quite frightening.

Also reported in today's papers ... many army wives feel particularly threatened .. that can't be right or acceptable - can it what next ?? their children being targeted !!

[Dark Knight]

there will come a point where the majority will no longer condone such a liberal anything goes policy regarding religion immigration, wearing of burkas etc
the truth is many white anglo Saxons are tired of the country being undermined by human and religious rights and are scared/worried/concerned about when white people will become a minority
for now it is well hidden ,but it is there ,at heart the UK is much more racist than anyone will admit
or they are too PC to admit the truth

I will wait for someone to pick a fight over this post coz they want to make me out as racist and ignore them completely as they are too PC to be honest

[Silver_Shiney]

Without doubt there are definitely some very ignorant British people.

When in Rome ? What about those women who have been born here who have a right to practice their traditions? We are a tolerant multi-cultural society which has allowed people freedom and individuality but it is clear that there are a great many people who have no tolerance whatsoever. Women who wear a burqa have the right to wear a burqa in accordance with tradition or in keeping with the Quran. Only the husband and other male members of the family are supposed to look at her. It is to do with modesty and not displaying one's beauty and not showing anything of oneself to other (unknown) men. In India, for example, young, unmarried women or young, married women in their first years of marriage are required to wear the burqa. However, after this the husband usually decides if his wife should continue to wear a burqa. Laws have been passed in France, Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands that forbids anyone (religion is nothing to do with it) from wearing anything which conceals their identity. So, until this country passes a law that forbids anyone from concealing their identity in a public place, then women wishing to wear a burqa, have a right to do so. As I said earlier in this thread, anyone feeling strongly about such issues should write to their MP to express their concerns.

Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it mention a burqa, or any of these ridiculous pieces of cloth covering the face. What it DOES say is that women should dress modestly. See http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/par ... 57%29.html.

These rags have no place in this country. If I visit any other country, I abide by its laws and traditions, even though they are different from ours. It's called respect.

there will come a point where the majority will no longer condone such a liberal anything goes policy regarding religion immigration, wearing of burkas etc
the truth is many white anglo Saxons are tired of the country being undermined by human and religious rights and are scared/worried/concerned about when white people will become a minority
for now it is well hidden ,but it is there ,at heart the UK is much more racist than anyone will admit
or they are too PC to admit the truth

I will wait for someone to pick a fight over this post coz they want to make me out as racist and ignore them completely as they are too PC to be honest

Kev, there is nothing racist in what you say. If they fight you over it, they fight me, too.

[Mo2013]

Silver Shiney - regarding the burqa, you are incorrect and I refer you to Wikipedia.

[david63]

There is a vast difference between what is posted on the Internet, what people in non Arabic countries want to believe and what actually happens in Arabic countries in the mode of dress - especially for women, as anyone who has spent time in those counties will testify to.

[Silver_Shiney]

Silver Shiney - regarding the burqa, you are incorrect and I refer you to Wikipedia.

I already checked with Wiki, which agrees with the URL I quoted. Kindly get your facts right.

[Mo2013]

Dark Knight - you might be waiting a long time for someone to pick a fight with you since this is a civilised discussion. it appears that most people have now abandoned the thread probably because it is clear that no amount of posts will alter clearly entrenched views about people who actually live here who lawfully practise freedom of expression.

[Mo2013]

Silver Shiney - regarding the burqa, you are incorrect and I refer you to Wikipedia.

I already checked with Wiki, which agrees with the URL I quoted. Kindly get your facts right.

I said 'in keeping with the Quran'. I am not wrong since there are several interpretations - 'veil' or 'hijab' = burqa. A pity that you are intent on splitting hairs.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Mo,

Give up you cant change people whose minds are closed.

They probably do not know any Moslems and are of the 'old brigade' who still beilieve in the British Empire.

John

[Silver_Shiney]

Silver Shiney - regarding the burqa, you are incorrect and I refer you to Wikipedia.

I already checked with Wiki, which agrees with the URL I quoted. Kindly get your facts right.

I said 'in keeping with the Quran'. I am not wrong since there are several interpretations - 'veil' or 'hijab' = burqa. A pity that you are intent on splitting hairs.

<sigh> just read the wretched thing, will you? What are you going to put more store by? The Qu'ran? An Islamic website? Or Wikipedia?