Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

I may be remembering wrong but didn't we have police, the health service, an intelligence service and food production before we joined the EU?

To take the last, for example, how does the EU help us by subsidising farmers not to grow things?

[Jack Staff]

What you fail to take into account is that we are the driver and leaders in much of the above mentioned. We are totally capable of doing all of this on our own. If the EU don't want to share intel then it's their loss. If they don't want to sell us agri products then we'll buy them elsewhere. Are you being intentionally thick or just provocative.

What you fail to take into account is that we do all that as a group of 28. Cutting costs considerably.

Just how many times are you going to spend that £350 million?

The last line I will just ignore.

[Gill W]

Having read all the comments since my post this afternoon, I remain extremely concerned about what’s going to happen post Brexit.

No, we’re not a third world country, and I sincerely hope we thrive after Brexit. But, there’s so little time left between now and March to get everything in place to allow us to trade and travel freely. I know we did all this before we joined the EU, but we’ve been entwined with them for 40 years. We can’t expect to just walk away in 9 months time and think that everything will continue as normal. I believe there’ll be major upheaval and it could take years to resolve all the issues.

I want to be wrong about this - but believe I am right to be worried.

I understand most people on the thread have their ideological position on this, but I’m a bit baffled why there’s not real concern about the way it appears to be heading.

10 o’clock news headline - Irish border still a block on the road to Brexit

[towny44]

The EU keeps telling us we have to abide by their 4 freedoms if we wish to trade with them, however the EU has trade agents with dozens of countries, according to Jack, few of these abide by these 4 freedoms, so why are we so different?

Because most of our infrastructure of the last forty years has been built with the EU.
It is not just planes.
It's medicine
Nuclear
Police
Space
Intelligence
JIT production lines
Qualifications of countless individuals
Our food supply
are just a few of the the things to be affected. Some of these we desperately want (need) to keep. That is why we are so different.

Jack, why do you never answer the questions asked, instead you throw up all sorts of spurious hints of armageddon.
Do any major trading nations have trade agreements with the the EU that require they sign up to the 4 freedoms, if not then why can't we have a similar agreement, I doubt that Canada, South Korea or Japan are signing up to any of the 4.
Merv, has already shot you down about your counter questions.

[Jack Staff]

I may be remembering wrong but didn't we have police, the health service, an intelligence service and food production before we joined the EU?

To take the last, for example, how does the EU help us by subsidising farmers not to grow things?

I don't know, I'm not a farmer. Are you?

[Jack Staff]

Jack, why do you never answer the questions asked, instead you throw up all sorts of spurious hints of armageddon.

I think I have picked up the habit from Brexiters, as you still have not come up with any benefit to British citizens, have you?

Do any major trading nations have trade agreements with the the EU that require they sign up to the 4 freedoms, if not then why can't we have a similar agreement, I doubt that Canada, South Korea or Japan are signing up to any of the 4.

Awww diddums, not getting the easiest trade deal in history???? More fool you for believing the disgraced former defence minister.

Merv, has already shot you down about your counter questions.

Are you serious? It is up to you as a Brexiter to explain how this wonderful Brexit malarkey is good for the British people and unite the country behind you. Shooting dissenters down is not furthering your cause. You won, get on with it.

[Stephen]

What you fail to take into account is that we are the driver and leaders in much of the above mentioned. We are totally capable of doing all of this on our own. If the EU don't want to share intel then it's their loss. If they don't want to sell us agri products then we'll buy them elsewhere. Are you being intentionally thick or just provocative.

[Gill W]

Well, I'll leave you lot to peck at each other, and return in month or two to see how you are facing up to realities.

[barney]

Very wise Gill. May now clearly has nowhere to go so the only option left is for the EU to move a bit. Even if there was a GE Corbyn is a staunch leaver so little would change except we might stay in a customs union of some description. I think this will go to the last hour.

[david63]

It is possible that May is playing a clever game here. She has come up with a deal that appeases many of the Parliamentary Conservative party and which with a few "tweaks" could be accepted by Barnier et al. The deal will almost certainly be rejected by Parliament and if not then by the other 27 EU members, which leaves a "no deal" or basically a "hard Brexit" which was what May wanted all along. She will be able to turn round and say "not our fault Guv we came up with the goods and everyone else has rejected them!"

On the other hand my underlying suspicion is that the deal was actually done months ago and what we are seeing now is all theatre to justify it or not as the case might be. I would also like to think that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of and whilst plans may not be in place for a no deal much has already been put in place.

[Jack Staff]

I would also like to think that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of and whilst plans may not be in place for a no deal much has already been put in place.

Plans are already well advanced.
You can read them here https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/brexit ... notices_en

[barney]

The UK planning is also well advanced but they are keeping their cards close to their chest so as not to appear provocative. I know this for an absolute fact because my brother's wife is a senior civil servant and has been seconded from DWP to the Dexeu dept.

[Jack Staff]

The UK planning is also well advanced but they are keeping their cards close to their chest so as not to appear provocative.

You don't think they are keeping it secret because they are scared of the British public's reaction then?

[towny44]

The UK planning is also well advanced but they are keeping their cards close to their chest so as not to appear provocative.

You don't think they are keeping it secret because they are scared of the British public's reaction then?

Nope, only a moaning remainer would think that.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I may be remembering wrong but didn't we have police, the health service, an intelligence service and food production before we joined the EU?

To take the last, for example, how does the EU help us by subsidising farmers not to grow things?

I don't know, I'm not a farmer. Are you?

That's a first Jack!

And no I'm not. But I know plenty of them.

I can also, like you, use Google, which tells me that 40% of the EU budget goes on the Common Agricultural Policy, and that 1 in 5 of the top recipients in this country are billionaire and millionaires on the Sunday Times Rich List! Does that sound broken to you?

Oh and at the formation of the Common Market France insisted on a system of agricultural subsidies, which supported their inefficient farmers, as the price of agreeing a free trade deal in goods. Not that they were cherry picking you understand (or perhpas their farmers were!) - that's not allowed.

[johnds]

Jack
A little light reading for you just to redress the balance

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... advantage/

Gerrymandering ?

[barney]

So Raab says publicly today that the 39 billion is at risk if no deal. How many cherries does 39 billion buy?

[Mervyn and Trish]

He's obviously talking nonsense. Jack says we've got to pay it whatever happens!

[barney]

I'm amazed that anyone would be happy with that arrangement.
It must be conditional. Bribe money must work both ways.

And before anyone wants to come on here and say that it's to honour future commitments, then they are talking rubbish.
The current budget that the UK is obligated to runs out in 2020.

Any other payment is a goodwill gesture. It is because the EU have committed money long into the future that they don't have.
Even the rabid remaining House of Lords has agreed that.

[Mervyn and Trish]

My reading is that the "divorce" payment was conditional (under the terms of Article 50) on reaching agreement on the future relationship.

So no deal, no dosh. I'm glad Raab has had the bottle to remind them.

[screwy]

Maybe Raab should have been in from the start.

[towny44]

David Davis thinks that a rerun referendum would end up 60-40 in favour of leave, I think I would agree with him.

[screwy]

Maybe but i dont want to try it.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If it did there would still be some wanting to go for best of five!

[towny44]

Not that it would make any difference to Barnier, in fact he might want to punish us more.