Baby Boomers: are they bleeding the welfare state and the co

[Dancing Queen]

As I have said many many times, the state pension is a benefit

funnily enough most people think its a right

Hardly a fortune DK and the people entitled to this have paid their NI and taxes for xx years so yes it is their right.

If you are set to reach state retirement age before April 2017 you will be able to claim the basic state pension. This is worth up to £107.45 a week in the 2012/13 tax year and £110.15 from April 2013.

Married couples and civil partners receive a joint pension worth up to £171.85 a week (£176.15 from April 2013) if only one of them qualifies for the full basic state pension.

Now take a read at this and then come back and tell us that the pensioners of this Country are not entitled to the pittance our government pay them, it's laughable

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3605/ ... ment-jihad

[Quizzical Bob]

And don't forget that all income is taxed as normal. The state pension is not much less than the tax-free allowance so those who you might consider 'rich' will pay tax on any extra income that they may have managed to scrape together. Indeed, for some circumstances the removal of pension credit can make the marginal rate 91% I believe.

[david63]

As I have said many many times, the state pension is a benefit

funnily enough most people think its a right

Just a question.

If the State Pension is a "benefit" then why is it not paid by the Benefits Agency and not the Pension Service?

Also if it is a "benefit" then, as far as I am aware, it is the only "benefit" that has to be earned by paying, or having credited, National Insurance qualifying payments.

[Quizzical Bob]

Pensions and benefits come under different headings on the Department of Work and Pensions website.

[Dark Knight]

when will you lot fess up and google state pension, it is part of the welfare system and is classed by everyone that doesn't wear blinkers as a benefit

you lot just daren't admit it coz that way you can all harp on about it being a right coz you paid for it, who do you think pays for the rest of the benefits in society
get your heads out and do your research

[Dancing Queen]

I'm seriously thinking of becoming a Muslim as I think their "benefits" are so much better than ours

[Dark Knight]

The State Pension is a "contribution-based" benefit, and depends on an individual's National Insurance (NI) contribution history. For someone with the 30 qualifying years (years in which NI contributions were paid),[1] it is payable at a flat rate of £110.15 a week (2013–14). A smaller, pro-rata, pension is paid to someone with fewer qualifying years. An "age addition" of 25p a week is paid to people over 80.


oh what a surprise good old wiki
now lkets wait for all the BB's to argue black is white

[oldbluefox]

Dark Knight is correct................. it is not a right






but neither is it a benefit: it is an entitlement if you care to read what the Institute for Fiscal Studies says, based on what you have paid into it.

'3.2 Entitlement based on one’s own contribution history: category
A pensions
As shown in equation 3.1, the amount of weekly (category A) state pension
income that an individual is entitled to when they hit the SPA depends on
the number of qualifying years accrued during working life and the
requisite number of qualifying years for a full BSP, which depends on the
length of their working life'.


Therefore if you have paid into it you are entitled to draw from it. Simples

[Dark Knight]

sum of money paid regularly as a retirement benefit or by way of patronage.
tr.v. pen·sioned, pen·sion·ing, pen·sions
1. To grant a pension to.
2. To retire or dismiss with a pension

dictionary definition

so please pm all you apologies to me

[oldbluefox]

'A second point made was that the current generation cannot afford to get on the property ladder due to the exorbitant cost of houses and that the BB's are in danger of being left with an unsellable asset, which for many is the backbone of thier wealth?'

..................... and if some of the younger generation gave up their motor cars, designer clothes, continental holidays/cruises, lavish stag/hen do's, binge drinking, night clubbing, meals out, expectations to have dishwashers, washing machines, tumble driers etc from the outset, lowered their expectations to take on a small terrace house instead of the new 3 bedroom semi and saved their money they would probably be able to afford their first step on the housing ladder, especially with low mortgages, instead of expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate.

Discuss.

[oldbluefox]

Apologise?....... we're only just getting our gums into you!!

[Dancing Queen]

The State Pension is a "contribution-based" benefit, and depends on an individual's National Insurance (NI) contribution history. For someone with the 30 qualifying years (years in which NI contributions were paid),[1] it is payable at a flat rate of £110.15 a week (2013–14). A smaller, pro-rata, pension is paid to someone with fewer qualifying years. An "age addition" of 25p a week is paid to people over 80.


oh what a surprise good old wiki
now lkets wait for all the BB's to argue black is white

I don't think I am a BB ..I'm too young but I will argue back.

While ever this is happening ...... http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3605/ ... ment-jihad then I will justify every single penny that is paid to our pensioners, it is absolutely disgusting that these "evil people" are allowed to abuse our benefits system when many old people can't afford to eat or heat their homes, can you tell me that is right !!!!

[Dark Knight]

oh dear foxy

we have just sold our house to young couple who have saved for 4 years to get the 10% deposit needed to get a mortgage
used to be 5% in my day
the deposit on a new build is 20%, so given the average house price in the UK is well over £150K, where do they get a 15-30K deposit from?
I suppose you and others will recant stories of living on orange boxes and not having a lightbulb for 5 years etc etc
the reality is that the BB's made all the money on their houses and now young people cant afford to get a house, no matter how small
look up the stats on how old the average first time buyer actually is

[Dark Knight]

The Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) have collated data showing that it is increasingly likely, especially in London, that first time buyers will have massive parental help. So it seems that the growth in first time buyers is coming from people with help from wealthy parents, who are buying more expensive properties than ‘traditional’ first time buyers.

oh please please keep going you lot, this is so much fun

[oldbluefox]

That's the point my little batty friend. You don't start off in a £150,000 house. You save first and you buy what you can afford, whether it's a little terraced house or a little flat.. It meanssaving and doing without the luxuries in life, and some of the necessities in order to get something you want/need. Sometimes it means growing a set of sphericals, cutting your ties from mum and dad's hotel and standing on your own two feet.

[Dark Knight]

oh foxy rose tinted nostalgia is wonderful, when you can afford it

every single financial institution in the country , every single study shows the exact opposite of the comments on this forum and no one will admit they have had the best of it
if people are so insular and selfish, then what chance is there for anyone to make a change
the simple truth is that the next generation are well and truly stuffed and all the hindsight from the BB generation doesn't change the facts that they have had it all and are to greedy to give something back

the average house price in the UK is now beyond most first time buyers, the average age of first time buyers is rising and 35% of the younger generation don't think they will ever own a house

BUT the BB's have benefited from huge house price rises ,a booming economy and still plead hardship
20% of pensioners with private incomes of over 40k and still they claim an extra benefit, when the average salary is around 24k
there is not a single argument that supports the BB generation

the honest truth, which no one will admit, is yours is now a generation of I'm alright Jack and there is no counter argument to say otherwise

[oldbluefox]

But what we can't get through to you is that 80% of pensioners do not have private pensions of £40000 plus (including me).

You believe what you want to believe but your argument is so full of inaccuracies and untruths. However if you repeat yourself often enough somebody, somewhere will believe you.

Have a good night DK.

[towny44]

[/quote]

The Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) have collated data showing that it is increasingly likely, especially in London, that first time buyers will have massive parental help. So it seems that the growth in first time buyers is coming from people with help from wealthy parents, who are buying more expensive properties than ‘traditional’ first time buyers.

oh please please keep going you lot, this is so much fun

oh dear foxy

we have just sold our house to young couple who have saved for 4 years to get the 10% deposit needed to get a mortgage
used to be 5% in my day
the deposit on a new build is 20%, so given the average house price in the UK is well over £150K, where do they get a 15-30K deposit from?
I suppose you and others will recant stories of living on orange boxes and not having a lightbulb for 5 years etc etc
the reality is that the BB's made all the money on their houses and now young people cant afford to get a house, no matter how small
look up the stats on how old the average first time buyer actually is

[/quote]
oh dark batty one of the night,
Parental help was always essential for first time buyers, when we married in 1965 I was earning £600pa with very little savings and a BS loan was based on 2.5 times the man's income only, which meant the house we wanted, a 2 bed semi, at £2250 was way beyond our reach, so without the building society of Mum & Dad we would not have got onto the property ladder, and amongst our friends we were by no means the only ones. Fortunately we had 4 years of dual income before our first son was born, by which time we had paid off a large chunk of our loan. Because as Foxy keeps telling you we had to cut our coat according to the cloth, and we did without lots of current day essentials including holidays to ensure we had a good start.
Its a pity that we spoilt the next generations so much that they now expect to start with everything, perhaps if they showed a little bit of the self sacrifice we had, then we might have a bit more sympathy for them.

[Quizzical Bob]

oh dear foxy

we have just sold our house to young couple who have saved for 4 years to get the 10% deposit needed to get a mortgage
used to be 5% in my day
the deposit on a new build is 20%, so given the average house price in the UK is well over £150K, where do they get a 15-30K deposit from?
I suppose you and others will recant stories of living on orange boxes and not having a lightbulb for 5 years etc etc
the reality is that the BB's made all the money on their houses and now young people cant afford to get a house, no matter how small
look up the stats on how old the average first time buyer actually is

There are a number of points this evening.

It was more than a 5% deposit in my day.
15-30k is what is typically spent on a wedding these days.

There wouldn't be a housing shortage if the population hadn't increased by over 10m, and this after the BBs stopped reproducing.

I have not benefitted (true sense of the word) from any notional increase in the value of my house. I bought a house, I still have a house.

Yes, the first three houses I lived in had outside toilets, no bathroom and no heating apart from one fireplace.

Oh, and the present generations have the benefit of all the new hospitals and schools that the BBs paid for.

[Kendhni]

You believe what you want to believe but your argument is so full of inaccuracies and untruths. However if you repeat yourself often enough somebody, somewhere will believe you.

Surely not .. are suggesting that something you found on the web may be inaccurate? That is blasphemy

[oldbluefox]

Ken, the world as we know it has just come to an end, for some.

[Dark Knight]

I do love a good debate and this is shaping up nicely

if we do not use the web or the media for information, them what basis is there for a debate, to those of you dismissing the information gather, please enlighten me as to where you get your truths from?
are you all economists and politicians in disguise? no...then how do you know you are right
my info is based on the sources available to us all, now if you want to put some good old spin on it to suit your needs, fine, but your information is no more right than mine

the biggest issue here is the inability of a generation to take some responsibility for the state of the economy and a generation that is far to eager to blame everyone who came before, despite the fact that ,that generation voted in the weak policy makers and reaped the rewards when they were their for the taking
the current welfare and benefits system is being paid for by a shrinking workforce and at some point will implode
but hey as long as the BB's get their share, why worry????

[Gill W]

DK, why is it just the Baby Boomers that are the focus of your ire?

What about the generation born just before and during the war? They've had all the benefits you perceive the BB's to have had, why aren't you haranguing them to 'give something back'

Also, I was wondering what income level you feel is appropriate for BB's to manage on before their pension should be stopped.

Or would you propose that everyone born between the years of 1945 to 1960, who owns a property and is in receipt of a small private pension should have their pensions taken away?

Then people like you, who are only a few years away from being a Baby Boomer yourself would be able to get a slice of the pension pie, at the expense of the BB generation.


I suspect all this anger you seem to have about the BB's is just an anxiety that there'll be nothing left for you when the time comes.

[david63]

If you want to start on the economy then I think you will find that the BB's actually created a strong and stable economy post war, and in difficult circumstances - it is subsequent generations, which includes the BBs, that have created the problems

[Kendhni]

Then people like you, who are only a few years away from being a Baby Boomer yourself would be able to get a slice of the pension pie, at the expense of the BB generation.
.

It is not so much about the baby boomers as self interest by pointing the finger of spin and blame elsewhere .. the off spring of the baby boomers have, generally speaking, been handed most of their life on a plate and have been spoilt far more than many previous generations ... remember, most of the main rights they have were inherited by the blood and sweat of previous generations.

We are now getting to a stage where some of them are hearing the word 'no' for the first time and they have started throwing their toys out of the pram ... some are realising that they will have to work just as hard as the previous generation to get the same return.

However, there does need to be a rebalancing ... not so much for the off spring of the baby boomers who grew up in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's (myself included), relatively speaking they have done very well out of their parents and enjoyed a childhood and early adulthood that the previous generation could only have dreamed of ... my concern is more for the generation we are now bringing up, those in their childhoods through to their teens or even into their twenties ... because, while in this country most had a very privileged childhood, they will be the first generation that will really feel the pinch if nothing is done ... as the 90's and noughties have shown just how selfish and greedy people have become, right across the spectrum of age .. I am just amazed that so many parents care so little about their children that they are allowing this to happen.