EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[Quizzical Bob]

It is not people in London who insist we pay child benefit to children living in Poland. It is not people in London who insist we must pay the same benefits to people from Romania who just arrived to live here as to those born from British families who've paid into the system for years. It is not peopie in London who say we have to admit other Europeans whether or not they have a job to come to and whether they have a string of criminal convictions or not. It is not people in London who are handing EU passports to economic migrants to get them off their hands and wave them on towards the UK.

The EU is in serious trouble. It is corrupt to its very roots. It has chance to make itself more credible to the British people and has put two fingers up at those British people who polls indicate have had enough.

No?

Then why doesn't all this happen in other EU countries?

Do you know for certain it doesn't, and if it doesn't why aren't Brussels getting on their backs for not following the rules?

I know quite a bit about France and Spain. The attitudes is, 'we're French, we do what we want'.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The red tape comes from the UK, not the EU.

If that's the case why do small businesses gripe specifically about EU red tape?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I know quite a bit about France and Spain. The attitudes is, 'we're French, we do what we want'.

Thank you QB. You make my point for me. Why would we want to be shackled to this shower?

[barney]

An absolute fundamental of the EU is that all are treated equally and not discriminated against, simply because they come from another member state.
I think we all agree that's a given.

So, in my opinion, the changes that have been 'agreed' will no doubt be challenged in the European Court as discriminatory at some time in the future, rendering them useless, as the European Court always overrides any domestic courts.

So, again in my humble opinion, it's all smoke and mirrors.

To me it's all about control and our Parliament (like them or loathe them) making and upholding laws in our country.

It's such a complex issue but I personally feel it's not all about the money, which is the way some folk are seeing it.

Sovereignty and British Pride has a lot to do with it.
It's an emotive issue.

As I've said previously, I genuinely believe that being a member of the EU has held us back as an innovative nation.
For our size, we punch well above our weight in so many things and always have.

I've seen nothing from this sham negotiation to convince me to change my mind.

As a footnote, my neighbours are a Polish family with two girls, both born here.
When I asked him what he's do in the event of a Leave vote, he told me that he'd stay and become a British citizen.

[Manoverboard]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times. We will probably save a few billion but then be able to watch it being swallowed up by the NHS as soon as Labour get back in.

I also cannot understand why Merv, or indeed anybody else on a fixed income, is seriously contemplating the idea of voting to leave the EU ... it's madness.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times. We will probably save a few billion but then be able to watch it being swallowed up by the NHS as soon as Labour get back in.

I also cannot understand why Merv, or indeed anybody else on a fixed income, is seriously contemplating the idea of voting to leave the EU ... it's madness.

Because no-one's convinced me otherwise Moby. Cameron promised the earth in his manifesto. He's delivered nothing and that will be further diluted if we vote to stay.

And why would anybody leave? Our economy is vibrant compared to the stagnant EU. And particularly why would financial institutions leave when the EU wants even more regulation on them which they'd be protected from if we left the EU?

[Stephen]

I was listening to him on the Andrew Marr show this morning. I'll give him his due, he can certainly talk the talk.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So can Alan Carr, but I wouldn't vote for him!

[Quizzical Bob]

The red tape comes from the UK, not the EU.

If that's the case why do small businesses gripe specifically about EU red tape?

Do they?

As I said, it all comes from London and British bureaucrats are the worst in the world.

[Boris+]

and I do think that many of the things which we seem to have lost (such as imperial measurements etc) would be nice to have back. Why shouldn't we be different?

Good heavens!!! Next we'll be back to furlongs, chains and bushels. Not sure how reverting back to Imperial measure will help but imagine the chaos caused in the export markets.
Some things are best left alone.

Looking back over the time since we joined Europe, quite a bit of the traditional British way of life was gone by the way. If this country was going to leave the eu, it could be an opportunity to get back to some of those ways. One example is the mental arithmetic which we were all perfectly capable of - every kid could go into a sweet shop and work out using mental arithmetic the cost of half a quarter of sweets at 4.5d. Nowadays it's all metric, which doesn't require much mental agility - and we've all become sloppy with mental arithmetic. These mobile phones don't help either the number of people who simply can't remember the telephone numbers they want/need to remember - and then there's always the diary on the phone as well.

Ok, I will freely admit that maybe some of the old things and old ways are best left in the past, but if this country is going to take responsibility for the future, then why not embrace an opportunity to get back to stuff like imperial measurements which honed and maintained mental skills, cooking from scratch, using more traditional recipes? When the eu (common market) all started out, many were in a rush to embrace it - and just look at what they've lost.

[barney]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times.

Again, a statement of fact that has absolutely no fact.

The City of London isn't one of the worlds major financial institutions because of the EU but actually in spite of it.

This is going to run and run, right up until it's decided

Again, and only in my humble opinion, The EU is close to meltdown anyway.
The massive influx of (invited) migration will, within a generation, lead to it's demise.
Schengen countries are already re-establishing borders and a few are watching which way this vote goes, probably to ask for their own 'special' deal if the UK vote is to Stay in.
I regularly watch Euronews and there are quite a few teetering on the brink, ref nationalism.

We may just be ahead of the curve.

[Meg 50]

I 'm an outer...

I can't find details of 'is nibs's deal...


Mainly, though we're better off out of any organisation that wantonly blocks the auditors from doing their job for year and years and years

[Mervyn and Trish]

If that's the case why do small businesses gripe specifically about EU red tape?

As I said, it all comes from London and British bureaucrats are the worst in the world.

I think you misunderstand the term EU QB. I think by definition EU bureacrats work in the EU, not London.

But as ever I suppose we have to accept you are right and all the small businesses who think they are strangled by the EU are wrong.

So I guess I and all the others who hate the EU will have to bow to your knowledge and vote in.

Or alternatively, we could vote out. And could move your business to Brussels and avoid any influence from the terrible people in London.

[Mervyn and Trish]

To see if Mr Cameron's hard work has changed any minds I've started a new pollon how you'd vote now you know the concessions gained.

Be interesting to see if it's any different from this one.

[towny44]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times. We will probably save a few billion but then be able to watch it being swallowed up by the NHS as soon as Labour get back in.

I also cannot understand why Merv, or indeed anybody else on a fixed income, is seriously contemplating the idea of voting to leave the EU ... it's madness.

Because no-one's convinced me otherwise Moby. Cameron promised the earth in his manifesto. He's delivered nothing and that will be further diluted if we vote to stay.

And why would anybody leave? Our economy is vibrant compared to the stagnant EU. And particularly why would financial institutions leave when the EU wants even more regulation on them which they'd be protected from if we left the EU?

Moby, I am with Merv on this, personally I cannot understand why anyone would want to remain in the EU, and I suspect that a leave vote might just precipitate a flurry of similar actions in enough other member states to cause a break up of the EU. Unfortunately the polls seem to indicate that the leave campaign, even with Boris, will find it hard to convince enough voters to support it.

[Onelife]

I was listening to him on the Andrew Marr show this morning. I'll give him his due, he can certainly talk the talk.

All talk No substance l would say.....

Under his leadership this dispicable conservative goverment have promised the earth and delivery nothing. Let's start with them getting national debt under control...Failed... the national debt has increased dramatically under their terms of office...They will of course tell you that they are getting the deficit down....well hoo bloody hoo for them any political party would get the deficit down if they were to be as unscrupulous as this bunch of twats. 


Under their henchman Ian 'd***head' Smith they have sent many vulnerable disabled and mental ill patients to an early grave through their inhumane and unfair 'fit for work' culling policy. Oh' let's not forget the council bedroom tax which is as about as low as any goverment can stoop....taxing council tenants because they have a spare room is an absolute disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves. 


Well let's go down to the food bank today you're sure of a nice surprise...l suppose when you find yourself in a position where you are having to survive on food parcels then an extra tin of baked beans is a nice surprise!!


'Safe in our hands' REMEMBER?......waiting times have increased, staff moral is at an all time low, doctors are striking, recruitment into the NHS is at an all time low, hospitals closing down near you....do l need to go on....well yes!.... How this bunch of hypocritical twits could accept an independent review body recommendation pay increase of 8% when they totaly ignored the independent review body pay recommendation for nurses is beyond me.


And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse we could be faced with this bunch of narcissistics taking us out of the EU...with no doubt our tail between our legs if the last six years are anything to go by.

As you can tell l'm feeling a whole lot better today

[Meg 50]

To see if Mr Cameron's hard work has changed any minds I've started a new pollon how you'd vote now you know the concessions gained.

Be interesting to see if it's any different from this one.

can someone post a link to the list?

I scoured the papers and can't find them

(and no, I wasn't looking in the beano!)

had another look..

Is this it?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c90bfec-d76e ... z40osubKvQ

[Stephen]

I was listening to him on the Andrew Marr show this morning. I'll give him his due, he can certainly talk the talk.

All talk No substance l would say.....

Under his leadership this dispicable conservative goverment have promised the earth and delivery nothing. Let's start with them getting national debt under control...Failed... the national debt has increased dramatically under their terms of office...They will of course tell you that they are getting the deficit down....well hoo bl**dy hoo for them any political party would get the deficit down if they were to be as unscrupulous as this bunch of twats. 


Under their henchman Ian 'd***head' Smith they have sent many vulnerable disabled and mental ill patients to an early grave through their inhumane and unfair 'fit for work' culling policy. Oh' let's not forget the council bedroom tax which is as about as low as any goverment can stoop....taxing council tenants because they have a spare room is an absolute disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves. 


Well let's go down to the food bank today you're sure of a nice surprise...l suppose when you find yourself in a position where you are having to survive on food parcels then an extra tin of baked beans is a nice surprise!!


'Safe in our hands' REMEMBER?......waiting times have increased, staff moral is at an all time low, doctors are striking, recruitment into the NHS is at an all time low, hospitals closing down near you....do l need to go on....well yes!.... How this bunch of hypocritical twits could accept an independent review body recommendation pay increase of 8% when they totaly ignored the independent review body pay recommendation for nurses is beyond me.


And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse we could be faced with this bunch of narcissistics taking us out of the EU...with no doubt our tail between our legs if the last six years are anything to go by.

As you can tell l'm feeling a whole lot better today

Bl**dy moaner. You don't know when you're well off

[Quizzical Bob]

If that's the case why do small businesses gripe specifically about EU red tape?

As I said, it all comes from London and British bureaucrats are the worst in the world.

I think you misunderstand the term EU QB. I think by definition EU bureacrats work in the EU, not London.

But as ever I suppose we have to accept you are right and all the small businesses who think they are strangled by the EU are wrong.

So I guess I and all the others who hate the EU will have to bow to your knowledge and vote in.

Or alternatively, we could vote out. And could move your business to Brussels and avoid any influence from the terrible people in London.

As I said, I have no bureaucratic or red tape problems with the EU, but I have no end of problems with the bureaucrats in Britain. I thought I made that difference clear. I know of no small businesses who have felt strangled by the EU, and I have spent quite a bit of time involved with the local Chambers of Commerce.

If things do get bad I shall seriously consider moving the business to somewhere more business friendly with less red tape, somewhere like France. And I am being deadly serious.

[Quizzical Bob]

I was listening to him on the Andrew Marr show this morning. I'll give him his due, he can certainly talk the talk.

All talk No substance l would say.....

Under his leadership this dispicable conservative goverment have promised the earth and delivery nothing. Let's start with them getting national debt under control...Failed... the national debt has increased dramatically under their terms of office...They will of course tell you that they are getting the deficit down....well hoo bl**dy hoo for them any political party would get the deficit down if they were to be as unscrupulous as this bunch of twats.


Under their henchman Ian 'd***head' Smith they have sent many vulnerable disabled and mental ill patients to an early grave through their inhumane and unfair 'fit for work' culling policy. Oh' let's not forget the council bedroom tax which is as about as low as any goverment can stoop....taxing council tenants because they have a spare room is an absolute disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves.


Well let's go down to the food bank today you're sure of a nice surprise...l suppose when you find yourself in a position where you are having to survive on food parcels then an extra tin of baked beans is a nice surprise!!


'Safe in our hands' REMEMBER?......waiting times have increased, staff moral is at an all time low, doctors are striking, recruitment into the NHS is at an all time low, hospitals closing down near you....do l need to go on....well yes!.... How this bunch of hypocritical twits could accept an independent review body recommendation pay increase of 8% when they totaly ignored the independent review body pay recommendation for nurses is beyond me.


And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse we could be faced with this bunch of narcissistics taking us out of the EU...with no doubt our tail between our legs if the last six years are anything to go by.

As you can tell l'm feeling a whole lot better today

If you think that's bad just be glad that we don't have a Labour government

[Mervyn and Trish]

If things do get bad I shall seriously consider moving the business to somewhere more business friendly with less red tape, somewhere like France. And I am being deadly serious.

If British bureaucrats are so bad, do it now Bob. Why wait?

[Dark Knight]

Boris Johnson has come out in favour of an exit
That will cause some waves

[Meg 50]

[Manoverboard]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times.

Again, a statement of fact that has absolutely no fact.

The City of London isn't one of the worlds major financial institutions because of the EU but actually in spite of it.

You have me there, it wasn't intended to be a fact although it certainly could become one .... is my own personal ' prediction '.

It would not make sense, I simply submit, for the City of London to operate outside of the major revenue stream that resides on its doorstep. Once we are ' out ' the EU will logically crank up legislation to gradually dilute the dominance of the City of London in favour of German Institutions ... there is no other way.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The biggest problem with leaving is that all the major players in the Financial Sector will up sticks and move to Germany leaving the City of London together with all the revenue that it presently generates as a fond memory of better times.

Again, a statement of fact that has absolutely no fact.

The City of London isn't one of the worlds major financial institutions because of the EU but actually in spite of it.

You have me there, it wasn't intended to be a fact although it certainly could become one .... is my own personal ' prediction '.

It would not make sense, I simply submit, for the City of London to operate outside of the major revenue stream that resides on its doorstep. Once we are ' out ' the EU will logically crank up legislation to gradually dilute the dominance of the City of London in favour of German Institutions ... there is no other way.

And if we vote in they'll probably do the same. Once the vote's done if we accept their pathetic compromise they'll know we're toothless.

On the plus side, if we vote out we could finally be rid of Krankie and Shrek. If anything is worse than the EU it's those two trying to dictate to the rest of the UK.