Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

You misunderstand my last point, I was only suggesting we attempt to pull the UKs poorest out of poverty, as you keep telling us the UK is no longer a world leader so let's leave it to someone else to solve the third world poverty.

You are right, I did misunderstand.
In many aspects we have lost our position as a world leader ... and yes we should strive to climb that ladder again and bring people up to the highest standards (instead of our attempts to accommodate everyone by dropping standards).

However, what that suggestion would, in all likelihood, increase the flow if immigrants to this country and could therefore be self-defeating.

[Kendhni]

Hi Ken…if we both concede that, we don’t have the answers

I have already conceded that ... like everyone else all we have are suggestions that may or may not be viable ...

then perhaps we can move this topic to a place where we ask ourselves how will these immigrants integrate into our society. For that I would just say this… apart from those who come here through appropriate channels, with the skills that are needed, immigration has otherwise Imo been a complete disaster for our country. It’s ironic that those who feel they need to flee their birth countries through reasons such as their ethnicity, religion, race, politics, better life choice or cultural beliefs do so knowing we in the UK tolerate all of the above to the extent that many cities across the country have now become enclaves of those who wish to retain these ethnicity, religion, race, politics and cultural beliefs, this ultimately provokes the questions surrounding the lack of integration and the growing resentment that immigration has on the indigenous population of the UK.

.... and I can honestly say I have no idea how to solve that issue either.

One thing I would say is that I would disagree that immigration has been a complete disaster ... some aspects have not been as successful as others ... but you cannot simply rule out the positives and then complain that what is left is negative. So the positives include impact to the overall economy; impact to pensions; bringing the skills; filing job vacancies; doing jobs that are beneath a workshy indigenous population etc. ... and, ironically, many of the positives are provided by both legal and illegal immigrants. Ideally it would be nice if everybody brought their best game to the table ... but that is not reality.

On the other hand there has been issues with integration and ghettoising. My belief has always been that when I go to your country I will respect your laws ... I simply ask for the same back ... and there should be one law for everybody in the country (not exception/exemption based). In the case of 'resentment' I think that, in some cases, it is ingrained into some from birth with some/much of it being unjustified ... and that applies both ways.

[Kendhni]

Now that is an ouch ... 'facing the longest recession ever'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63471725
I wonder how that compares with other countries around the world, or can we hope to be lifted by a rising tide?

[Kendhni]

There was guy on telly this morning,came here 4 yrs ago,not sure from where but let’s say the Middle East,just a guess. He works as a Vet. He now isn’t happy with Inflation and mortgage rates and is looking to leave.! Guess the UK isn’t the land of milk and honey.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-63470931

[Onelife]

Hi Ken…if we both concede that, we don’t have the answers

I have already conceded that ... like everyone else all we have are suggestions that may or may not be viable ...

then perhaps we can move this topic to a place where we ask ourselves how will these immigrants integrate into our society. For that I would just say this… apart from those who come here through appropriate channels, with the skills that are needed, immigration has otherwise Imo been a complete disaster for our country. It’s ironic that those who feel they need to flee their birth countries through reasons such as their ethnicity, religion, race, politics, better life choice or cultural beliefs do so knowing we in the UK tolerate all of the above to the extent that many cities across the country have now become enclaves of those who wish to retain these ethnicity, religion, race, politics and cultural beliefs, this ultimately provokes the questions surrounding the lack of integration and the growing resentment that immigration has on the indigenous population of the UK.

.... and I can honestly say I have no idea how to solve that issue either.

One thing I would say is that I would disagree that immigration has been a complete disaster ... some aspects have not been as successful as others ... but you cannot simply rule out the positives and then complain that what is left is negative. So the positives include impact to the overall economy; impact to pensions; bringing the skills; filing job vacancies; doing jobs that are beneath a workshy indigenous population etc. ... and, ironically, many of the positives are provided by both legal and illegal immigrants. Ideally it would be nice if everybody brought their best game to the table ... but that is not reality.

On the other hand there has been issues with integration and ghettoising. My belief has always been that when I go to your country I will respect your laws ... I simply ask for the same back ... and there should be one law for everybody in the country (not exception/exemption based). In the case of 'resentment' I think that, in some cases, it is ingrained into some from birth with some/much of it being unjustified ... and that applies both ways.

I’m not ruling out the positives, indeed, there have been great benefits in encouraging those with the skills sets to settle in this country. The negatives however are that the majority that arrived here, whether that be legally or illegally didn’t have the skill sets that this country needed. We have now created divisions both culturally and economically that this country will struggle to bridge, especially between the ethnic enclaves who rightfully feel they are being left behind....There will be trouble ahead for sure so lets not add to the problem by letting more in.

[barney]

One illegal Albanian admitted today that he was convicted of murder in Greece as an illegal immigrant.
He got 18 years, served 7, and made his way to the U.K.
source- Kent Messenger online.

[barney]

The Home Office was looking to commandeer the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe for migrants.
The local Tory Mp has openly opposed on the grounds of it being inappropriate due to the isolation of the area, lack of any support available from the local authorities and the impact on the community.
Ironically, the Conservative controlled council has threatened legal action against the government should they proceed.
There is a very serious housing crisis due to the very high number of Airbnb in the area and the fear is that the local people just won’t stand for it.

[Gill W]

One illegal Albanian admitted today that he was convicted of murder in Greece as an illegal immigrant.
He got 18 years, served 7, and made his way to the U.K.
source- Kent Messenger online.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/new ... an-276405/

This is the story. He's not an 'illegal Albanian'. He was charged with entering the country without valid entrance clearance and has been sent to jail as he was found guilty of this offence. He started a claim for asylum on 12 October, so his current status is an asylum seeker. It is perfectly legal to seek asylum The article didn't mention anything about him being an 'illegal immigrant' in Greece, so you simply made that up

[Gill W]

I’m sick of hearing about the problems at Manston. The reporting of diseases being spread, well, guess who brought them in. Diseases we eradicated decades ago.!

Have to agree with you Merv. Some woman was talking on LBC yesterday pm complaining that these people should not even be housed in Hotels, but better accommodation should be sought.

You say you are sick of hearing about the problems at Manston - but I think you aren't listening to what you are hearing.

The problem with Manston is that people are only supposed to be there for a few hours while their asylum claims are made. But thousands of people are being held there for weeks and there aren't enough facilities to house people for a long-term period - I'm talking about basic sanitation like enough toilets and washing facilities. When people are forced to live like that, diseases will spread, it's what happens. It would happen to you if you were forced to live like that. I imagine you would hope for some empathy if you were having to live in those conditions, and not be spoken about in a dehumanising way as a 'disease spreader.'

[Gill W]

The negatives however are that the majority that arrived here, whether that be legally or illegally didn’t have the skill sets that this country needed.

How do you know that? You are making assumptions. In any event they are people, and people can be trained to do jobs.

We are a country with a labour shortage, and the people making the channel crossing want to settle here, for a better life so they are looking for jobs. If the whole situation hadn't turned into another sh*tshow, perhaps it would have been possible to have to made a better outcome.



I've read numerous times in various articles that the French have offered us a location for asylum seekers to make their applications for asylum while still in France. Perhaps this would work. There would then be no need for people to attempt the dangerous channel crossing in dinghies, the application process wouldn't happen in the UK. People could make their claims, and then be offered safe passage to the UK and be housed in purpose-built facilities when their claim is being processed - a process that needs to be expedited, not the ridiculous delays that have built up. If granted asylum, people could then move on with their lives.

The people currently stuck in the system are being dehumanised, which is a bit disturbing, to be honest.

[Kendhni]

The negatives however are that the majority that arrived here, whether that be legally or illegally didn’t have the skill sets that this country needed.

I have no evidence of that one way or the other. I could possibly see that may be the case if we include the children, and wives (working on the basis that in many of the countries people are coming from, the male is the primary bread winner).

We have now created divisions both culturally and economically that this country will struggle to bridge, especially between the ethnic enclaves who rightfully feel they are being left behind....There will be trouble ahead for sure so lets not add to the problem by letting more in.

Not even those with the much needed skillsets?
I don't disagree with your comment, but the solution is not us ranting about it, the solution is for those that have been elected on promises to reform and resolve the system, to actually do the job they are being paid to do and make the system fit for purpose. One of the biggest hinderences to that, is the public making excuses for the failure of their political representatives to deliver ... it's not your job ... it's not my job ... it is their job.

[towny44]

I’m sick of hearing about the problems at Manston. The reporting of diseases being spread, well, guess who brought them in. Diseases we eradicated decades ago.!

Have to agree with you Merv. Some woman was talking on LBC yesterday pm complaining that these people should not even be housed in Hotels, but better accommodation should be sought.

You say you are sick of hearing about the problems at Manston - but I think you aren't listening to what you are hearing.

The problem with Manston is that people are only supposed to be there for a few hours while their asylum claims are made. But thousands of people are being held there for weeks and there aren't enough facilities to house people for a long-term period - I'm talking about basic sanitation like enough toilets and washing facilities. When people are forced to live like that, diseases will spread, it's what happens. It would happen to you if you were forced to live like that. I imagine you would hope for some empathy if you were having to live in those conditions, and not be spoken about in a dehumanising way as a 'disease spreader.'

I wonder if the tented encampments they came from in Calais have adequate sanitation and shower blocks?

[towny44]

The negatives however are that the majority that arrived here, whether that be legally or illegally didn’t have the skill sets that this country needed.

How do you know that? You are making assumptions. In any event they are people, and people can be trained to do jobs.
We have failed miserably to train many of our own poorest to adequately fulfil even menial jobs, so perhaps we should concentrate on getting that right before we do the same for immigrants.
We are a country with a labour shortage, and the people making the channel crossing want to settle here, for a better life so they are looking for jobs. If the whole situation hadn't turned into another sh*tshow, perhaps it would have been possible to have to made a better outcome.
Yes we do have labour shortages, but we also have a very high number of working age people who are currently not in the job market.


I've read numerous times in various articles that the French have offered us a location for asylum seekers to make their applications for asylum while still in France. Perhaps this would work. There would then be no need for people to attempt the dangerous channel crossing in dinghies, the application process wouldn't happen in the UK. People could make their claims, and then be offered safe passage to the UK and be housed in purpose-built facilities when their claim is being processed - a process that needs to be expedited, not the ridiculous delays that have built up. If granted asylum, people could then move on with their lives.
Now that could work, however public opinion and govt inertia would never agree to approve all those wanting to come to the UK, so there would still be a demand for illegal trafficking.
The people currently stuck in the system are being dehumanised, which is a bit disturbing, to be honest.

Not that I disagree with any of your comments, it's just that I don't believe the solution is anywhere near as simple as you portray.
PS please open up the "read more" to see my fuller comments.

[Onelife]

The negatives however are that the majority that arrived here, whether that be legally or illegally didn’t have the skill sets that this country needed.

How do you know that? You are making assumptions. In any event they are people, and people can be trained to do jobs.



We are a country with a labour shortage, and the people making the channel crossing want to settle here, for a better life so they are looking for jobs. If the whole situation hadn't turned into another sh*tshow, perhaps it would have been possible to have to made a better outcome.



I've read numerous times in various articles that the French have offered us a location for asylum seekers to make their applications for asylum while still in France. Perhaps this would work. There would then be no need for people to attempt the dangerous channel crossing in dinghies, the application process wouldn't happen in the UK. People could make their claims, and then be offered safe passage to the UK and be housed in purpose-built facilities when their claim is being processed - a process that needs to be expedited, not the ridiculous delays that have built up. If granted asylum, people could then move on with their lives.

The people currently stuck in the system are being dehumanised, which is a bit disturbing, to be honest.

If they have the skills that we need they can apply through the appropriate channels, if they’re not willing to do that then they don’t have the skill sets or the morals that this country needs, as for educating such as the Roma asylum seeker most arrive here not being able to read or write, the only upside I can see is that you could get your driveway done on the cheap…however, best not have anything of value on show when they leave.

As for the French application idea, yes I can see that it could work but for the large proportion who fail it will be dingy time again.

[Gill W]

I wonder if the tented encampments they came from in Calais have adequate sanitation and shower blocks?

How do you know where they came from?

Do they even have 'tented encampments' in Calais any more? I thought they had been cleared away?

Even if they do have tented encampments, what does it have to do with conditions at Manston?

Not that I disagree with any of your comments, it's just that I don't believe the solution is anywhere near as simple as you portray.

Of course it's not simple, it's extremely complex and difficult. But what's happening it not working and it's been allowed to turn into a crisis. So they need to resolve the crisis and do things differently to make sure this situation doesn't happen again.

I read that the main group of people who aren't working in this country are the over 50's who didn't return to work after Covid. Do we force them to go back to work, or do we find people who actually want to work? I retired from work nearly 8 years ago at the age of 54. At the age of 62, there is no way I'm going to go back to work, so I think forcing people back into the workforce would be quite difficult.

I also read that many people who are in the country illegally were not trafficked into the country, but just stayed after a tourist visa had expired and are working in the cash in hand economy. Perhaps the best way to stop trafficking is to clamp down on the people traffickers, but would need much international cooperation, which our government doesn't seem very keen on

[Gill W]

If they have the skills that we need they can apply through the appropriate channels, if they’re not willing to do that then they don’t have the skill sets or the morals that this country needs, as for educating such as the Roma asylum seeker most arrive here not being able to read or write, the only upside I can see is that you could get your driveway done on the cheap…however, best not have anything of value on show when they leave.

As for the French application idea, yes I can see that it could work but for the large proportion who fail it will be dingy time again.

So judgemental about people. I thought you were better than this Keith.

I think I read that 75% of people are granted asylum, not exactly small amount.

As for the other 25%, what benefit is there for them to get in a dinghy. They's already know they wouldn't be granted asylum. So they'd know that they'd either be returned to their home country, or if not picked up by the boarder force, would be on their own, with no means of getting to any family or getting anywhere to stay or any means of support.

[Kendhni]

I've read numerous times in various articles that the French have offered us a location for asylum seekers to make their applications for asylum while still in France. Perhaps this would work. There would then be no need for people to attempt the dangerous channel crossing in dinghies, the application process wouldn't happen in the UK. People could make their claims, and then be offered safe passage to the UK and be housed in purpose-built facilities when their claim is being processed - a process that needs to be expedited, not the ridiculous delays that have built up. If granted asylum, people could then move on with their lives.

That is one instance of the safe/legal channel that I have been referring to, that should never have been shut down and should be opened again.

[Kendhni]

As for the other 25%, what benefit is there for them to get in a dinghy. They's already know they wouldn't be granted asylum. So they'd know that they'd either be returned to their home country, or if not picked up by the boarder force, would be on their own, with no means of getting to any family or getting anywhere to stay or any means of support.

That is my line of thinking as well. It is virtually impossible to police an exit-point coast line but much easier to police an entry-point coastline, so the majority of them would be caught and could be immediately returned without further discussion. But first we need safe/legal channels to be opened up for these groups.

Will it stop all people entering the company through illegal channels? .. definitely not, but it should greatly reduce it.

[towny44]

As for the other 25%, what benefit is there for them to get in a dinghy. They's already know they wouldn't be granted asylum. So they'd know that they'd either be returned to their home country, or if not picked up by the boarder force, would be on their own, with no means of getting to any family or getting anywhere to stay or any means of support.

That is my line of thinking as well. It is virtually impossible to police an exit-point coast line but much easier to police an entry-point coastline, so the majority of them would be caught and could be immediately returned without further discussion. But first we need safe/legal channels to be opened up for these groups.

Will it stop all people entering the company through illegal channels? .. definitely not, but it should greatly reduce it.

Are you sure that France would agree to take back a failed asylum seeker, or are you assuming they would be returned to their country of origin, if it's even known, and several years after dodgy lawyers had milked the maximum from the legal aid budget.

[barney]

The Home Office was looking to commandeer the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe for migrants.
The local Tory Mp has openly opposed on the grounds of it being inappropriate due to the isolation of the area, lack of any support available from the local authorities and the impact on the community.
Ironically, the Conservative controlled council has threatened legal action against the government should they proceed.
There is a very serious housing crisis due to the very high number of Airbnb in the area and the fear is that the local people just won’t stand for it.

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

[Onelife]

If they have the skills that we need they can apply through the appropriate channels, if they’re not willing to do that then they don’t have the skill sets or the morals that this country needs, as for educating such as the Roma asylum seeker most arrive here not being able to read or write, the only upside I can see is that you could get your driveway done on the cheap…however, best not have anything of value on show when they leave.

As for the French application idea, yes I can see that it could work but for the large proportion who fail it will be dingy time again.

So judgemental about people. I thought you were better than this Keith.

I think I read that 75% of people are granted asylum, not exactly small amount.

As for the other 25%, what benefit is there for them to get in a dinghy. They's already know they wouldn't be granted asylum. So they'd know that they'd either be returned to their home country, or if not picked up by the boarder force, would be on their own, with no means of getting to any family or getting anywhere to stay or any means of support.

I have also read that it is in the region of 75% who get granted asylum but with no paper trail to verify these claims it is probably the case that many get through the net with well-rehearsed stories, indeed I’m sure I could throw something together that would have you all in tears if I was in their position.

What is not generally highlighted is that there are refugee charities along with civil rights activist on hand to give these illegal immigrants all the information they need to make successful asylum claims.

As for being judgmental, I always say it as I see it, whether I be right or wrong.

[oldbluefox]

As for being judgmental, I always say it as I see it, whether I be right or wrong.

Nothing wrong with that OL. Some may not like it, some may disagree with it but I don't see a problem with having an opinion courteously expressed, whilst acknowledging the views of others.

[Gill W]

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

If you insist on reporting without links to source material, at least report accurately.

I’ve searched for information on this, and the people involved are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers, and seeking asylum is not illegal.

[Onelife]

As for being judgmental, I always say it as I see it, whether I be right or wrong.

Nothing wrong with that OL. Some may not like it, some may disagree with it but I don't see a problem with having an opinion courteously expressed, whilst acknowledging the views of others.

An opinion very well expressed Foxy

[oldbluefox]

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

If you insist on reporting without links to source material, at least report accurately.

I’ve searched for information on this, and the people involved are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers, and seeking asylum is not illegal.

Do you have a link to your source Gill?