Current Affairs

[Onelife]

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

If you insist on reporting without links to source material, at least report accurately.

I’ve searched for information on this, and the people involved are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers, and seeking asylum is not illegal.

I’m sure the question of their personal status would have been far easier had the 98% of asylum seekers not accidentally dropped their passports before or during their channel crossing.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press- ... o-passport

[Mervyn and Trish]

We seem to be getting bogged down in words here. Just because somebody claims asylum does not make them automatically legal. If in fact they turn out to be, for example, migrants with no legal right to be here posing under the asylum seeker label I don't think the term illegal immigrant is unreasonable.

[Kendhni]

As for the other 25%, what benefit is there for them to get in a dinghy. They's already know they wouldn't be granted asylum. So they'd know that they'd either be returned to their home country, or if not picked up by the boarder force, would be on their own, with no means of getting to any family or getting anywhere to stay or any means of support.

That is my line of thinking as well. It is virtually impossible to police an exit-point coast line but much easier to police an entry-point coastline, so the majority of them would be caught and could be immediately returned without further discussion. But first we need safe/legal channels to be opened up for these groups.

Will it stop all people entering the company through illegal channels? .. definitely not, but it should greatly reduce it.

Are you sure that France would agree to take back a failed asylum seeker, or are you assuming they would be returned to their country of origin, if it's even known, and several years after dodgy lawyers had milked the maximum from the legal aid budget.

The 1951 convention provides the mechanism for return to the country of origin or their home state.
An incompetent attorney general does not mean lawyers are dodgy.

[barney]

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

If you insist on reporting without links to source material, at least report accurately.

I’ve searched for information on this, and the people involved are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers, and seeking asylum is not illegal.

They all entered the country illegally.
That makes them illegal immigrants unless asylum is granted.

[screwy]

I’m sick of hearing about the problems at Manston. The reporting of diseases being spread, well, guess who brought them in. Diseases we eradicated decades ago.!

Have to agree with you Merv. Some woman was talking on LBC yesterday pm complaining that these people should not even be housed in Hotels, but better accommodation should be sought.

You say you are sick of hearing about the problems at Manston - but I think you aren't listening to what you are hearing.

The problem with Manston is that people are only supposed to be there for a few hours while their asylum claims are made. But thousands of people are being held there for weeks and there aren't enough facilities to house people for a long-term period - I'm talking about basic sanitation like enough toilets and washing facilities. When people are forced to live like that, diseases will spread, it's what happens. It would happen to you if you were forced to live like that. I imagine you would hope for some empathy if you were having to live in those conditions, and not be spoken about in a dehumanising way as a 'disease spreader.'

April,May and June 1982 I was living and sleeping in a shitty,water/mud filled slit trench for long periods, while having Bullets and shrapnel whistling around me.! I and my brothers in arms also didn’t have toilet and washing facilities. None of us got ‘ diseases’
We didn’t hope for ‘ empathy ‘ we just hoped to get home in one piece.

Please don’t preach to me about rough conditions.!

Yes, I volunteered, so have these.!

Come on then Gill. What’s your solution as to where place them. I’m sure we would all like to hear it.

[Kendhni]

We seem to be getting bogged down in words here. Just because somebody claims asylum does not make them automatically legal. If in fact they turn out to be, for example, migrants with no legal right to be here posing under the asylum seeker label I don't think the term illegal immigrant is unreasonable.

I made that exact point many posts ago. The problem is that there is a jumble of words including immigrant, illegal immigrant, those seeking asylum, refugees and migrants, all of which can have subtly different meanings. Seeking asylum is a human right that involves a legal process ... therefore, even if they entered the country through irregular means, it is only after the process has completed that they can be granted or denied refugee status. If denied they may be deemed as being an illegal immigrant/alien which basically means they have not met the criteria for being a refugee ... the state then becomes responsible for allowing them to stay, letting them leave voluntarily or sending them back to some other country.

[Kendhni]

The announcement for the 17th is getting interesting with the media floating a lot of claims from their 'well-informed' sources.
- CGT rises
- income tax rises
- IHT rises (make those who benefitted from borrowing contribute towards its repayment)
- removing NI exemptions (NI to be paid cradle to grave)
- removing triple lock (sods law, as I approach retirement)
- public sector cutbacks
- austerity
Along with energy crisis, rising inflation and an expectation of a deep and lengthy recession it is likely to be a tough couple of years.

Obviously many of the above will not happen, but it is a reminder to us all to learn to prioritise and ride this storm out into better and calmer waters.

[Onelife]

We can expect any announcements to sway heavily towards helping the poorest in society, not just because it is the right thing to do, but it will also help restore much needed confidence in a party that is trying to move this country out of the doldrums.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Now tell me they're innocent asylum seekers.

BBC News - Channel crossings: Albanian migrants recruited to the UK by gangs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

And if the BBC know that why don't the French police round them up?

[barney]

The Home Office was looking to commandeer the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe for migrants.
The local Tory Mp has openly opposed on the grounds of it being inappropriate due to the isolation of the area, lack of any support available from the local authorities and the impact on the community.
Ironically, the Conservative controlled council has threatened legal action against the government should they proceed.
There is a very serious housing crisis due to the very high number of Airbnb in the area and the fear is that the local people just won’t stand for it.

Update
53 illegal immigrants were last night, under the cover of darkness, sent to the same hotel in Ilfracombe.
The MP and Council knew nothing about it until after the event and are furious.
The government are having to pay for security as well as the migrants.
Many guests immediately checked out.
It cannot end well.

Update on update
The hotel in question is no longer taking bookings.
This morning, four local homeless people have presented themselves to the hotel asking for accommodation and food.

[Onelife]

Now tell me they're innocent asylum seekers.

BBC News - Channel crossings: Albanian migrants recruited to the UK by gangs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

And if the BBC know that why don't the French police round them up?

And if they can't get away with that they can always ....

Large amounts don't grow on trees, you gotta pick a pocket or two
Let's show 'em how to do it my dears!
Why should we break our backs, stupidly, paying tax
Better get some untaxed income
Better pick a pocket or two, you
Gotta pick a pocket or two, boys, you gotta pick a pocket or two

[Onelife]

Now tell me they're innocent asylum seekers.

BBC News - Channel crossings: Albanian migrants recruited to the UK by gangs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

And if the BBC know that why don't the French police round them up?

Sir Merv, this is the best news possible in waking people up to the threat of illegal immigration…perhaps now we can get on with sending them back.

[Kendhni]

We can expect any announcements to sway heavily towards helping the poorest in society, not just because it is the right thing to do, but it will also help restore much needed confidence in a party that is trying to move this country out of the doldrums.

I suspect you are correct and the perception they will try to give is that the poor are being targeted for help.
If Sunak/Hunt get this right they may still have a chance of saving the tory party ... Hunt was making the right noises in an interview earlier today ... to grow confidence in the UK, and thereby the economy, they have to start getting the debt down.

[Onelife]

We can expect any announcements to sway heavily towards helping the poorest in society, not just because it is the right thing to do, but it will also help restore much needed confidence in a party that is trying to move this country out of the doldrums.

I suspect you are correct and the perception they will try to give is that the poor are being targeted for help.
If Sunak/Hunt get this right they may still have a chance of saving the tory party ... Hunt was making the right noises in an interview earlier today ... to grow confidence in the UK, and thereby the economy, they have to start getting the debt down.

For the first time in two weeks, we are both thinking along the same lines

[barney]

We can expect any announcements to sway heavily towards helping the poorest in society, not just because it is the right thing to do, but it will also help restore much needed confidence in a party that is trying to move this country out of the doldrums.

I suspect you are correct and the perception they will try to give is that the poor are being targeted for help.
If Sunak/Hunt get this right they may still have a chance of saving the tory party ... Hunt was making the right noises in an interview earlier today ... to grow confidence in the UK, and thereby the economy, they have to start getting the debt down.

For the first time in two weeks, we are both thinking along the same lines

Why on earth would anybody think that saving the Tory Party is a good thing ?
They have been a disaster for the last twelve years, starting the day that Cameron and Osborn started running the show.
Six years of unnecessary and punishing austerity for the poorest in society, and still have a huge debt level.

[Onelife]

I suspect you are correct and the perception they will try to give is that the poor are being targeted for help.
If Sunak/Hunt get this right they may still have a chance of saving the tory party ... Hunt was making the right noises in an interview earlier today ... to grow confidence in the UK, and thereby the economy, they have to start getting the debt down.

For the first time in two weeks, we are both thinking along the same lines

Why on earth would anybody think that saving the Tory Party is a good thing ?
They have been a disaster for the last twelve years, starting the day that Cameron and Osborn started running the show.
Six years of unnecessary and punishing austerity for the poorest in society, and still have a huge debt level.

I was just taking Ken's lead Barney Squeak! Squeak!

[Gill W]

]
Do you have a link to your source Gill?

Yes.

I didn't post it, as I couldn't be bothered to run around after Barney, doing his job for him.

But here it is

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/a ... r-AA13J3nK

I know that if you REALLY wanted to have looked at this, you'd have Googled it, just like I had to

We didn’t hope for ‘ empathy ‘

Come on then Gill. What’s your solution as to where place them. I’m sure we would all like to hear it.

Well you got empathy, whether you liked it or not. It's something that people give freely when they have a bit of imagination and a bit of thought for their fellow human beings.

I see you have fallen into the fallacy that everyone has to have a solution instead of the government who caused the crisis and whose job it is to solve the crisis.

It's clear that you don't actually read my posts, as I mentioned the other day something that could be done differently.

You can read what I said if you are interested, but I'm guessing you don't REALLY want to know what I said. All these demands for 'solutions', are usually just attempts to have a dig at someone

[barney]

]
Do you have a link to your source Gill?

Yes.

I didn't post it, as I couldn't be bothered to run around after Barney, doing his job for him.

But here it is

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/a ... r-AA13J3nK

I know that if you REALLY wanted to have looked at this, you'd have Googled it, just like I had to

We didn’t hope for ‘ empathy ‘

Come on then Gill. What’s your solution as to where place them. I’m sure we would all like to hear it.

Well you got empathy, whether you liked it or not. It's something that people give freely when they have a bit of imagination and a bit of thought for their fellow human beings.

I see you have fallen into the fallacy that everyone has to have a solution instead of the government who caused the crisis and whose job it is to solve the crisis.

It's clear that you don't actually read my posts, as I mentioned the other day something that could be done differently.

You can read what I said if you are interested, but I'm guessing you don't REALLY want to know what I said. All these demands for 'solutions', are usually just attempts to have a dig at someone

I didn’t realise that I had to post a link to every statement made Gill !
Maybe just assume that sometimes people tell it as it is, even if it doesn’t match the narrative.
North Devon Gazette is the local paper.
Anyone wanting expanded facts can check their site.
No agenda
No political bias
Just the facts

[towny44]

]
Do you have a link to your source Gill?

Yes.

I didn't post it, as I couldn't be bothered to run around after Barney, doing his job for him.

But here it is

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/a ... r-AA13J3nK

I know that if you REALLY wanted to have looked at this, you'd have Googled it, just like I had to

We didn’t hope for ‘ empathy ‘

Come on then Gill. What’s your solution as to where place them. I’m sure we would all like to hear it.

Well you got empathy, whether you liked it or not. It's something that people give freely when they have a bit of imagination and a bit of thought for their fellow human beings.

I see you have fallen into the fallacy that everyone has to have a solution instead of the government who caused the crisis and whose job it is to solve the crisis.

It's clear that you don't actually read my posts, as I mentioned the other day something that could be done differently.

You can read what I said if you are interested, but I'm guessing you don't REALLY want to know what I said. All these demands for 'solutions', are usually just attempts to have a dig at someone

Why do you always sound so angry Gill, I accept that your views are very different to mine, but I try not to sound angry and frustrated when I respond to your posts. However I get the impression when reading your's that steam is coming out of your ears because you are so frustrated that you are unable to convert us to your point of view.

[Gill W]

We seem to be getting bogged down in words here. Just because somebody claims asylum does not make them automatically legal. If in fact they turn out to be, for example, migrants with no legal right to be here posing under the asylum seeker label I don't think the term illegal immigrant is unreasonable.

I don't think we are getting bogged down at all. It's just that many people are using incorrect words.

This is the definition of an illegal immigrant

'The migration of people into a country in violation of the immigration laws of that country or the continued residence without the legal right to live in that country'.

If someone coming over on a boat evades the border force and disappears into the UK to live and work - that is an illegal immigrant.

But it seems that many/most are handing themselves in to the border force to make a claim for asylum, which is perfectly legal.

If the asylum seeker's application is approved, they can legally enter the UK.

If the asylum seekers application is denied, they don't suddenly become an illegal immigrant because. they are not living or working here - they are removed from the country.

People don't pose as asylum seekers - once their application is made, that's what they are - like it or not

Therefore, I think it is inappropriate and incorrect to use the term 'illegal immigrant' to describe all of the people crossing the channel on small boats.

Now tell me they're innocent asylum seekers.

BBC News - Channel crossings: Albanian migrants recruited to the UK by gangs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

And if the BBC know that why don't the French police round them up?

Oh, now you are vilifying every Albanian.

I think it's going to take the UK and the French to work together to resolve this. If legal and safe routes of crossing the channel were opened up, then the gangs would be less likely to be able to target people who want to travel to the UK. Plus, the gangs themselves need to be targeted.

But, I'm not sure the UK Government has the will to work with France. Pouring rhetoric about invasions into receptive ears is more their style

And if they can't get away with that they can always ....

Large amounts don't grow on trees, you gotta pick a pocket or two
Let's show 'em how to do it my dears!
Why should we break our backs, stupidly, paying tax
Better get some untaxed income
Better pick a pocket or two, you
Gotta pick a pocket or two, boys, you gotta pick a pocket or two

Oh Keith

[Manoverboard]

Why do you always sound so angry Gill, I accept that your views are very different to mine, but I try not to sound angry and frustrated when I respond to your posts. However I get the impression when reading your's that steam is coming out of your ears because you are so frustrated that you are unable to convert us to your point of view.

Not that it matters but that's not my impression.

Gill's responses seem to be born out of emotion rather than cold logic ... if correct then agreement between you two is a non starter

[barney]

France said back in 2021 that it would welcome the U.K. setting up asylum centres in northern France to process asylum applications.
It’s this useless government that have done nothing about it.
It’s hardly rocket science is it.
Process the applications in France.
Those who meet the criteria are accepted
Those who fail are rejected
Then anyone who arrives in a small boat is automatically returned from whence they came as an illegal immigrant.
Why our government have not taken up this offer needs explanation.

[Onelife]

France said back in 2021 that it would welcome the U.K. setting up asylum centres in northern France to process asylum applications.
It’s this useless government that have done nothing about it.
It’s hardly rocket science is it.
Process the applications in France.
Those who meet the criteria are accepted
Those who fail are rejected
Then anyone who arrives in a small boat is automatically returned from whence they came as an illegal immigrant.
Why our government have not taken up this offer needs explanation.

Now form a straight line we are going to process your asylum claims…. hey! where are you lot going?

[Gill W]

Why do you always sound so angry Gill, I accept that your views are very different to mine, but I try not to sound angry and frustrated when I respond to your posts. However I get the impression when reading your's that steam is coming out of your ears because you are so frustrated that you are unable to convert us to your point of view.

Not angry. Not frustrated.

Why would anybody want to 'convert' people to their view? I don't understand that idea at all.

I'm just like everyone else, giving an opinion. I like to express my opinions clearly - some may find that a bit uncomfortable. If i suspect someone may be slightly disingenuous about their requests - I will mention it - some may find that uncomfortable. If someone is factually incorrect I will mention it - some may find that uncomfortable.

If I've had enough and become bored - I don't post for a while. People probably find that much more comfortable !

I didn’t realise that I had to post a link to every statement made Gill !
Maybe just assume that sometimes people tell it as it is, even if it doesn’t match the narrative.
North Devon Gazette is the local paper.
Anyone wanting expanded facts can check their site.
No agenda
No political bias
Just the facts

If posting a news story, it needs to be factually correct, otherwise its fake news.

You called them 'illegal immigrants', which was fake - the news article specifically said asylum seekers.

It's up to you how you present news - but I've now marked you as an unreliable source.

[Gill W]

Not that it matters but that's not my impression.

Gill's responses seem to be born out of emotion rather than cold logic ... if correct then agreement between you two is a non starter

I enjoy factual information - and always endeavour to keep my posts factual.

However, I'm not afraid of things like empathy and concern for my fellow humans - which I think may be something else that people find uncomfortable to talk about !

France said back in 2021 that it would welcome the U.K. setting up asylum centres in northern France to process asylum applications.
It’s this useless government that have done nothing about it.
It’s hardly rocket science is it.
Process the applications in France.
Those who meet the criteria are accepted
Those who fail are rejected
Then anyone who arrives in a small boat is automatically returned from whence they came as an illegal immigrant.
Why our government have not taken up this offer needs explanation.

thats pretty much what I said the other day