Current Affairs 2024

[towny44]

Comparing wage levels of public service with private sectors, is always problematic, even more so now that most private sector final salary pensions are closed, whilst most public sector workers still have them.
I agree that we need to have a better funded health service, but whilst it is totally free and paid for out of taxes, these issues will continue to happen when public sector finances come under pressure.

[oldbluefox]

But you can understand my niece's daughter's frustration when she looks at her contemporaries in other industries, sees their salaries, their bonuses and perks and working conditions and says she thinks she made a mistake going into medicine. Sadly I think she is another who will be deserting the NHS. How can we afford to keep losing young talent not only in the medical profession for the same is happening in the education sector? The whole system needs an overhaul. I don't feel either of those sectors are valued.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Of all the groups demanding more money the NHS deserves it more than any in my opinion. I do think 35% is unrealistic but the problem for me is that if they do get a decent rise other groups of less well trained, dedicated and essential workers will be shouting me too.

[david63]

I say give them a pay deal similar to that which the Scottish doctors accepted ie 12% plus a cash sum and a promise of above inflation pay rises in the future

If I am not mistaken they have already been offered something along those lines and rejected it.

they should abandon the 12 hour shifts

But is that not what most of them want? Don't forget that they do three/four 12 hour shifts and then have three/four (or more) days off - a pattern that suits many and there is, or at least wasn't when I was in, swapping between days and nights.

by the time they come to the end of their shifts, nurses and doctors are absolutely cream crackered and they have had enough

Isn't that though more to do with staff shortages than the hours worked? In many industries staff work 12 hour shifts as a norm.

the government needs to go some way to restoring the pay levels which have been eroded since 2008

And restoring interest levels on savings at the same time!

I have said this before that we, as a nation, have to make a decision - do we want an "All singing and dancing" NHS? And if so how are we going to pay for it? Or do we want a budget NHS that we can afford. It is totally unsustainable to try and provide the all singing NHS on a budget. A lot of the problems that currently exist have been created by the NHS itself by not moving with the times - the basic structure, and operation, of the NHS has not, in principle, changed since its inception 75 years ago.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It's not the 12 hour shifts that are the problem but that they are often long. When I was in the cardiac care unit (a specialist ITU) after my big heart op I had two nurses for 12 hours each, 7 till 7 night and day. At the end of my second day when I was due to return to the ordinary ward I was delayed waiting for the bed. My lovely nurse, who'd been on since 7am, didn't go home until after 9pm, and still had to be back at 7am. That's way more knackering than most other jobs.

[oldbluefox]

I'm not sure how the 12 hour shift system came about. Usually these matters are decided and imposed by powers that be who have little or no experience of working practices. Certainly I find difficulty in comparing the 12 hour shift of a doctor making life changing/saving decisions and the incumbent stress levels with that of anyone in industry. It's chalk and cheese.
The problem is,as David says, we want and expect a premium quality NHS service but are only prepared to fund at budget levels. (Having said that there is a great deal of waste in the service and money could be spent better.)
How does anyone find it acceptable to pay a junior doctor £32000pa after 7 years of intensive study and give them a 12 hour+ shift at night looking after 2/3 wards? Until we improve their pay and conditions there will continue to be a brain drain in our hospitals.

[Slapstick]

"I say give them a pay deal similar to that which the Scottish doctors accepted ie 12% plus a cash sum and a promise of above inflation pay rises in the future. And would the government stop using the public sector to pay for their mistakes with the economy?"

Problem being they are hell bent on 35% and are unlikely to accept anything but, hence the Government will not go back to the negotiating table until they are realistic.

[oldbluefox]

Not sure how much that is the case judging by their comments on the television yesterday when they were lauding the Scottish agreement.

[Slapstick]

Not sure how much that is the case judging by their comments on the television yesterday when they were lauding the Scottish agreement.

I would of expected them to have put the offer to the Government by now if 12% is acceptable.

The fact they haven't yet suggests it's not enough.

[david63]

Not sure how much that is the case judging by their comments on the television yesterday when they were lauding the Scottish agreement.

I think that a lot of the problem, not just with the junior doctors but with other unions, is that the members think one thing and the leaders think another and unless it is the leader's plans then it is unacceptable

[david63]

If I was negotiating the junior doctors pay claim my offer would be:

1. A pay rise over the next five years of inflation plus 5% in the first year, plus 4% in the second etc.
2. For each full year of working in the NHS they get their student loan repayments paid and after, say, 10 years the loan is wiped off - by which time many will be established in the NHS and would not be leaving.
3. Remove the nonsense of being on call and working full shifts. Being on call would be the shift and if there was nothing that needed their attention then they spend some time in A&E.

[Frank Manning]

If I was negotiating the junior doctors pay claim my offer would be:

1. A pay rise over the next five years of inflation plus 5% in the first year, plus 4% in the second etc.
2. For each full year of working in the NHS they get their student loan repayments paid and after, say, 10 years the loan is wiped off - by which time many will be established in the NHS and would not be leaving.
3. Remove the nonsense of being on call and working full shifts. Being on call would be the shift and if there was nothing that needed their attention then they spend some time in A&E.

Sounds very sensible to me. How about an idea to sort out the primary care as well? I ask that because Sue and I have had excellent NHS hospital care, but appointments at our surgery are like hens teeth, and you have to get past reception to triage then wait for a telephone appointment. All that, and if you finally get through the surgery door you are in the waiting room alone, and you are seen by a locum (they are usually very good). The partners seem to be translucent if they are there at all. It seems that the workload is carried by locums, practise nurses, and phlebotomists.

[towny44]

Does the BBCs continued use of the phrase "Hamas, which is designated a terrorist organisation by the UK Govt.", signify that is not the view of the BBC, I wonder?

[Stephen]

You’ve got it in one Frank.

And your more likely to be seen by a nurse specialist than a doctor these days. As you say, the partner doctors are often ellusive.

Our practice has a new system now where you can’t phone for an appointment any more you have to go through PATCHES, which is then triaged where you often end up with someone other than a doctor you requested. All very well until the apprentice kills someone.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Does the BBCs continued use of the phrase "Hamas, which is designated a terrorist organisation by the UK Govt.", signify that is not the view of the BBC, I wonder?

No. The BBC is made up of thousands of people with different opinions. The BBC does not have a view on anything.

[towny44]

Does the BBCs continued use of the phrase "Hamas, which is designated a terrorist organisation by the UK Govt.", signify that is not the view of the BBC, I wonder?

No. The BBC is made up of thousands of people with different opinions. The BBC does not have a view on anything.

We might have to agree to disagree on this one Merv, although I understand your point, but I imagine the TV News editorial team is not composed of thousands.
However I was seeking to find if anyone else was finding this continued comment to be as annoying as I do, as I assume its repeated use must be an editorial directive.

[Mervyn and Trish]

You're very likely right. There was criticism at the beginning that the BBC didn't explicitly state Hamas was a terrorist organisation. I think the form of words is to make clear that the decision who is or isn't a terrorist isn't theirs to make. I'd go back to something I said earlier that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, Nelson Mandela, who was imprisoned for terrorism, being the classic example. In this case, in my opinion, there is little to choose between the actions of Hamas and the Israeli military.

[Stephen]

Your about early Merv.

[Mervyn and Trish]

At the airport preparing to fly out to meet Towny on his royal visit to paradise.

[oldbluefox]

Your about early Merv.

I thought he'd had the bailiffs in

[Stephen]

At the airport preparing to fly out to meet Towny on his royal visit to paradise.

Don’t forget your wallet, John only drinks doubles…. with chasers

[Stephen]

Your about early Merv.

I thought he'd had the bailiffs in

He eventually paid the £5 fine and they were returning the goods.

[Ray B]

Not overly warm in Maderia, only a degree or so above us.

[Slapstick]

So the shy none royal who chose to live a quiet life in the States has lost his case against the Government who quite correctly downgraded his security after his announcement to be a none royal.

He'll obviously appeal, what a hypocrite

Priceless, just like the Crown Jewels.

[barney]

Hopefully he’ll pick up the tax payers legal bill