EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[Mervyn and Trish]

And still Call-Me-Dave and the rest waffle about anything other than this, which is the major concern for many people. Though of course in the eyes of the likes of Gordon Brown if you even mention it you're a bigot. Politicians on all sides are so put of touch with the worries of ordinary people.

Strangely its not my major concern, I am far more worried about the slide towards political and monetary union which I want no part of, but which I believe will be inevitable if we stay in the EU, even allowing for Dave's so called safeguards.

I agree with that too John. Basically I want control of our country back.

[oldbluefox]

Basically I want control of our country back.

This

[Frank Manning]

Unfortunately it is less about what is good for the country and more about the struggle between the left and right of the Tory party. They haven't learned a thing about the effects on the electorate, which those loonies of the right, had during the Major government If voting out means that twerp Boris Johnson as PM I'm voting stay in.

Even the Dutch and German electorate are getting fed up with the implications of Schengen and the open door policy.

[towny44]

I agree Frank the EU electorate do seem to be becoming more disillusioned with Brussels, the problem of course is that it is the ruling politicians that make the decisions, and I cannot envisage any change in the general direction they are persuing.
However for UK voters this is a once and final chance for us to stop the rollercoaster and get off, before it crashes and burns.
As for having Boris as PM, I think I prefer that to Corbyn.

[barney]

900,000 EU citizens working in the UK, but over 2.5 million National Insurance numbers issued to EU citizens

Figure that one out.

A Government spokesman said "maybe they've gone back?"

Maybe they have ?

[Manoverboard]

900,000 are working but add a wife or two and a sprog or two ... et voila, 2,500,000 as they all get a NINO

[Silver_Shiney]

Mrs Johnson's little boy may well be a twerp but at least you know what you're getting with him - I think he's got more integrity than the rest of them put together

[Quizzical Bob]

Unfortunately it is less about what is good for the country and more about the struggle between the left and right of the Tory party. They haven't learned a thing about the effects on the electorate, which those loonies of the right, had during the Major government If voting out means that twerp Boris Johnson as PM I'm voting stay in.

Even the Dutch and German electorate are getting fed up with the implications of Schengen and the open door policy.

But we are not part of the Schengen system???

[Silver_Shiney]

Unfortunately it is less about what is good for the country and more about the struggle between the left and right of the Tory party. They haven't learned a thing about the effects on the electorate, which those loonies of the right, had during the Major government If voting out means that twerp Boris Johnson as PM I'm voting stay in.

Even the Dutch and German electorate are getting fed up with the implications of Schengen and the open door policy.

But we are not part of the Schengen system???

Maybe that's why the Dutch and Germans are getting fed up with it...

Seriously, though, in practice, our not being a signatory to Schengen doesn't appear to have made a scrap of difference. We need national border controls on ALL international borders like yesterday.

[Quizzical Bob]

Unfortunately it is less about what is good for the country and more about the struggle between the left and right of the Tory party. They haven't learned a thing about the effects on the electorate, which those loonies of the right, had during the Major government If voting out means that twerp Boris Johnson as PM I'm voting stay in.

Even the Dutch and German electorate are getting fed up with the implications of Schengen and the open door policy.

But we are not part of the Schengen system???

Maybe that's why the Dutch and Germans are getting fed up with it...

Seriously, though, in practice, our not being a signatory to Schengen doesn't appear to have made a scrap of difference. We need national border controls on ALL international borders like yesterday.

That's my point: if it makes no difference now then it wouldn't make much if we left.

[Frank Manning]

Agreed. Even with the channel in the way illegal immigration continues and our courts and government agencies have a poor record in deporting them. I don't see any political will to change that. As for Boris, I suppose the photos of him and Trump which are doing the rounds on line sum it up. The future of politics? Be afraid.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Here's another issue for me in the insanity which is the EU.

Under the EU's open borders it is apparently possible to move freely around, slaughtering innocent people and returning home to Brussels. But then when caught one can apparently challenge extradition to where you committed the crime to face justice.

Okay I should chuck in a few allegedlys. But you get the principle.

Freedom to travel to work. Freedom to travel to claim benefits. Freedom to travel to access health care. Freedom to travel to commit mass murder. But apparently when it comes to facing the consequences there are international borders after all.

And if and when the extradition is agreed, presumably the next claim will be human rights.

I'm more for out every day.

[barney]

I thought that as well Merv.
Surely they can just drive him back to Paris without having to apply for extradition. ?????
Apparently not!

IDS has certainly chucked a time bomb into the mix.
My Sister in Law works (worked) for him as a Civil Servant but has this week booked off, so will miss the fireworks.

I'm constantly looking for reasons to convince me to vote Stay, but as of yet, Zilch.
3 months to go.

[Onelife]

Hi barney...with Ian 'dishonest' Smith being one of the leading figures fronting the out campaign we'll have an uphill battle on our hands.This excuse of a man has destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands through his 'take from the poor give to the rich' welfare reforms. Along with Cameron and Osborne he should be put on trial for the murder of hundreds, if not thousands of disabled people who have been pushed into taking their own lives after having failed the now discredited ATOS processing plant assessments.

One shouldn't be fooled about unscrupulous Smith's intentions he is a slimy political opportunist who jumped before he was pushed and now is trying to distance himself from his dastardly deeds.

If we have any chance of leaving the EU then the out campaign needs to keep him out of the mix....preferably in a box six foot under.

Regards

Keith

[towny44]

Sorry Keith but despite having a disabled wife I cannot agree with your assessment. In my own small circle I know of several people receiving disability welfare payments which, applying the same criteria as applies to my wife, are receiving far more than they should. Mainly this is due to the last Labour govts over generous welfare benefits, which were even then unsustainable, and are even moreso now.

[oldbluefox]

too many.........., are receiving far more than they should. Mainly this is due to the last Labour govts over generous welfare benefits, which were even then unsustainable, and are even more so now.

Towny is correct. This is the dilemma.

[Onelife]

Sorry Keith but despite having a disabled wife I cannot agree with your assessment. In my own small circle I know of several people receiving disability welfare payments which, applying the same criteria as applies to my wife, are receiving far more than they should. Mainly this is due to the last Labour govts over generous welfare benefits, which were even then unsustainable, and are even moreso now.

Hi towny. ..comparing one persons disability entitlment against another persons entitlment isn't something easily assessed without qualified medical opinion....all disabilities have different criteria when it comes to how it effects that individual.

As you will be aware those claiming disability bennifits will have to have gone through properly conducted medical assessments in order for them to continue receiving disability payments.....not l may add the tick box 'fit to work' assessments that this dispicable government continue to use in pursuit of massaging their deficit figures.

I'm the uncle of a very disabled young lady so know full well what devastating affects this governments welfare reforms are having on her life and that of her parents. The government will tell you that they are targeting the money at those who need it most... ha bloody ha...They have just stopped funding her one to one college day care needs (she has learning difficulties and often has 3 drop fits a day)

Regards

Keith

[towny44]

Sorry Keith but despite having a disabled wife I cannot agree with your assessment. In my own small circle I know of several people receiving disability welfare payments which, applying the same criteria as applies to my wife, are receiving far more than they should. Mainly this is due to the last Labour govts over generous welfare benefits, which were even then unsustainable, and are even moreso now.

Hi towny. ..comparing one persons disability entitlment against another persons entitlment isn't something easily assessed without qualified medical opinion....all disabilities have different criteria when it comes to how it effects that individual.

As you will be aware those claiming disability bennifits will have to have gone through properly conducted medical assessments in order for them to continue receiving disability payments.....not l may add the tick box 'fit to work' assessments that this dispicable government continue to use in pursuit of massaging their deficit figures.

I'm the uncle of a very disabled young lady so know full well what devastating affects this governments welfare reforms are having on her life and that of her parents. The government will tell you that they are targeting the money at those who need it most... ha bl**dy ha...They have just stopped funding her one to one college day care needs (she has learning difficulties and often has 3 drop fits a day)

Regards

Keith

Keith, I hate to keep disagreeing with you but IMHO those currently being overpaid owe it all to the liberal largesse of the civil servants running the welfare system, many of whom seem to feel it their duty to find as many loopholes in the system as they can to ensure their "customers" obtain the maximum amount of benefit. Clearly these staff will not be supporters of the current "privatised" companies trying their best to weed out the malingerers from the genuinely needy, and to try and produce a sustainable benefits system that does not take over the entire Govt. budget, which it surely would have done if Labour had remained in office.

[johnds]

Hi barney...with Ian 'dishonest' Smith being one of the leading figures fronting the out campaign we'll have an uphill battle on our hands.This excuse of a man has destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands through his 'take from the poor give to the rich' welfare reforms. Along with Cameron and Osborne he should be put on trial for the murder of hundreds, if not thousands of disabled people who have been pushed into taking their own lives after having failed the now discredited ATOS processing plant assessments.

One shouldn't be fooled about unscrupulous Smith's intentions he is a slimy political opportunist who jumped before he was pushed and now is trying to distance himself from his dastardly deeds.

If we have any chance of leaving the EU then the out campaign needs to keep him out of the mix....preferably in a box six foot under.

Regards

Keith

If this sort of vitriol or rant is offered as reasoned educated argument by those wishing to leave then it's the first thing I have seen that might make me change my mind and vote to stay

[Onelife]

Hi johnds....now you are either a relative of Ian bastard Smith or you have had your head buried in the sand for the past few year. It matters not which one it is as you clearly don't give a sh*t about how this government have introduced disability welfare reforms that have targeted the most vulnerable in society. Do some research about ATOS then you may have a clearer picture about how this government have gone about their Nazi style disability reforms.

Btw...you are right.....l ain't educated l just tell it as l see it.

Regards

OL

[johnds]

I have a nephew over 40 who as a schitzophrenic has been on benefits all his life.
He is the first to say that he receives far more than he needs
He also would not publically wish anyone dead nor accuse them ridiculously of murder.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm staying out of the IDS personal debate. I think the future of our country and whether we are better in or out of the EU is more important than is he a saint or sinner. I too am willing to be convinced to vote in, but every day my out position is hardening and at the moment I would vote out if the campaign was led by Godzilla and Rupert Bear.

[Silver_Shiney]

I'm staying out of the IDS personal debate. I think the future of our country and whether we are better in or out of the EU is more important than is he a saint or sinner. I too am willing to be convinced to vote in, but every day my out position is hardening and at the moment I would vote out if the campaign was led by Godzilla and Rupert Bear.

You mean it isn't??

[Onelife]

I have a nephew over 40 who as a schitzophrenic has been on benefits all his life.
He is the first to say that he receives far more than he needs
He also would not publically wish anyone dead nor accuse them ridiculously of murder.

I don't know what the higher rate of disability payment is but l would be surprised if it's more then £160 per week therefore your nephew must be capable of work or he must be getting other benefits on top of his disability payments.

Has he thought about talking to the DWP about reducing his entitlement?

[Dark Knight]

Keefy you really need to take off your red tinted glasses. labour under Blair and Brown were incompetent crooks, Blair is ,as you put it, guilty of murder and war crimes and not just not just being Americas poodle
Brown sold us down the economic river by selling the countries gold reserves and borrowing like a student on a Saturday night out
your politics is your own but you really need to stop trying to make out that the Labour are any sort of viable alternative and that their policies are even remotely sensible, Corbyn is a puppet at best and in no way a credible leader of a country, he would bankrupt us inside 4 years and leave this country defenceless and open to anyone who wants to walk in the door