Current Affairs

[Quizzical Bob]

I am now almost 69 yr old, throughout my working life I have been a Soldier,Trucker and Prison Officer. I left school with no qualifications. There will be many on here who are undoubtedly cleverer,smarter or whatever you want to call it, I know my limitations. Throughout this crisis I have always believed that the Government will always do the right thing being lead by the Science, now these people really are clever.! So why are there people on here who I doubt have nowhere near the qualifications as these people seem to think they know better and the govt and advisors are incompetent. You know who you are.!

I have plenty of qualifications. I have mingled at the levels of these people that you admire. I know wilful incompetence when I see it.

The Sunday Times is on the case:

https://archive.is/20200418182037/https ... -hq3b9tlgh

Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing QB, but CV has hit Italy, Spain, France and the US equally as badly as it has the UK, and no country has been immune to the PPE shortages, and most have had equal problems with testing. At the worst the govt could be accused of not acting quite as fast as it could, but to suggest they are guilty of wilful incompetence is a bit much even for a rampant Boris hater like you.

Please read that article in the Sunday Times and form your own opinion on it.

It’s only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

[david63]

Does anyone else get the impression that the media are "running out of steam" with CV10? Where a few weeks back they would go on and on for hours on the news now it is much shorter and they really don't have very much to say, mainly because there is nothing much to say and all the inane questions have been asked and dismissed.

They seem now to be dragging up "experts" with any opinion about anything just to fill the time.

I was reading somewhere earlier that some "expert" was suggesting how the exit could be done and how most things could be back to normal by late summer except for the over 70s who will have to remain in lockdown for at least another year or until a vaccine is available - now how would that be policed and can you see the over 70s actually conforming?

[Quizzical Bob]

Well it would be interesting to see your level of expertise QB, I’m so happy you have lots of qualifications but to what use did you put them..?

Sure, just this once.

MA, MSc, CEng, MIET

Double first at Cambridge, still a Bachelor Scholar there.

[Kendhni]

I was reading somewhere earlier that some "expert" was suggesting how the exit could be done and how most things could be back to normal by late summer except for the over 70s who will have to remain in lockdown for at least another year or until a vaccine is available - now how would that be policed and can you see the over 70s actually conforming?

Not just elderly, people like me with Asthma (bordering on COPD) may also need to remain in lockdown. When you know your life is possibly on the line you take a different view - especially with the idiotic pratts in supermarkets that can't follow a one way system, or don't have the mental acumen to grasp the concept of social distancing.

Just as importantly at the minute is trying to find a treatment for COVID-19, especially since there is growing evidence that there may be no immunity and therefore possibly no herd immunity. Fortunately several products have already gone into clinical trials.

I am fortunate in that I can work from home (even better to facilitate working from home they have removed some of the security measures we normally have to deal with).

[screwy]

Well it would be interesting to see your level of expertise QB, I’m so happy you have lots of qualifications but to what use did you put them..?

Sure, just this once.

MA, MSc, CEng, MIET

Double first at Cambridge, still a Bachelor Scholar there.

Very impressive QB but to what use have you put them...ie, what field of work ? Not being flippant,just interested.

[Manoverboard]

QB will likely be an Engineer rather than, say, an expert on virus control

[towny44]

Please read that article in the Sunday Times and form your own opinion on it.

It’s only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

I did read a good bit of it, enough to form the opinion that the writer possessed 20/20 hindsight.
Our govt took advice from our health experts, as I am sure most other countries did, it might have better to apply the lockdown sooner, but even then whether we would be in a position to safely reduce the restrictions now is very much unknown. The easing of restrictions in the rest of Europe is very limited and most countries were and still are ahead of us, and I am fairly certain that the press would probably have been questioning why we took the decision to apply the lockdown too soon, after all it is their job to question the govt, especially when the opposition are as useless as ours is currently.

[Quizzical Bob]

Well it would be interesting to see your level of expertise QB, I’m so happy you have lots of qualifications but to what use did you put them..?

Sure, just this once.

MA, MSc, CEng, MIET

Double first at Cambridge, still a Bachelor Scholar there.

Very impressive QB but to what use have you put them...ie, what field of work ? Not being flippant,just interested.

Military avionics designs, television standards research, then self-employed in television encryption systems, electronic displays and other various military monitoring and control and information displays.

President of a local chamber of commerce, school governor, a couple of local pro bono companies.

I respect you and what you have achieved Screwy. Your opinion is no less important or valuable than any other’s.

[Quizzical Bob]

Please read that article in the Sunday Times and form your own opinion on it.

It’s only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

I did read a good bit of it, enough to form the opinion that the writer possessed 20/20 hindsight.
Our govt took advice from our health experts, as I am sure most other countries did, it might have better to apply the lockdown sooner, but even then whether we would be in a position to safely reduce the restrictions now is very much unknown. The easing of restrictions in the rest of Europe is very limited and most countries were and still are ahead of us, and I am fairly certain that the press would probably have been questioning why we took the decision to apply the lockdown too soon, after all it is their job to question the govt, especially when the opposition are as useless as ours is currently.

Your opinion is more concerned with the writer that’s the content.

The point is that the government was getting advice from its health experts yet chose to ignore it. This was in contrast to any other country except perhaps the USA. This wasn’t hindsight at the time, it was foresight.

We should expect our governments to act in advance. Any idiot can act with hindsight and indeed many of them are.

[david63]

The point, surely, is that we do not, nor will we ever, know what affect any action taken earlier would have had.

[Quizzical Bob]

QB will likely be an Engineer rather than, say, an expert on virus control

That’s ’Chartered Engineer’ to you, young whippersnapper

It requires an analytical mind, an ability to understand complex systems, to evaluate various courses of action and foresee probable outcomes.

It’s becoming clear that this government has been following an epidemic response plan that was formulated a few years ago, one based on an influenza outbreak. This disease demands a different approach.

[Quizzical Bob]

The point, surely, is that we do not, nor will we ever, know what affect any action taken earlier would have had.

But yes we do. There would have been fewer cases and fewer deaths and it might have been possible to test, track and trace. True, nobody knows when or how we can relax these restrictions but it would have been a lot earlier and easier with fewer cases.

[towny44]

Your opinion is more concerned with the writer that’s the content.

The point is that the government was getting advice from its health experts yet chose to ignore it. This was in contrast to any other country except perhaps the USA. This wasn’t hindsight at the time, it was foresight.

We should expect our governments to act in advance. Any idiot can act with hindsight and indeed many of them are.

QB, why do you believe the govt did not take the experts advice? At the briefings SAGE is always quoted and Chris Witty etc would surely not get involved in the briefings if your accusations had any validity.

[oldbluefox]

I wonder what would have been the reaction from British industry had they gone for an earlier lockdown, before the pandemic had taken hold in this country?
I would have expected we would have tracked and traced those who were returning from their skiing trips to northern Italy where we knew the outbreak was rife.
We seem to get a lot of input from doctors. Invariably they have nothing to do with medicine or health.

[david63]

The point, surely, is that we do not, nor will we ever, know what affect any action taken earlier would have had.

But yes we do. There would have been fewer cases and fewer deaths and it might have been possible to test, track and trace. True, nobody knows when or how we can relax these restrictions but it would have been a lot earlier and easier with fewer cases.

I beg to differ. We do not know categorically whether there would have been fewer cases and/or fewer deaths - that may very well be true but equally there could have been more cases and deaths.

[Manoverboard]

QB will likely be an Engineer rather than, say, an expert on virus control

That’s ’Chartered Engineer’ to you, young whippersnapper

It requires an analytical mind, an ability to understand complex systems, to evaluate various courses of action and foresee probable outcomes.

It’s becoming clear that this government has been following an epidemic response plan that was formulated a few years ago, one based on an influenza outbreak. This disease demands a different approach.

OI ... less of the ' young '

I agree that it " requires an analytical mind, an ability to understand complex systems, to evaluate various courses of action and foresee probable outcomes. ".

There are doubtless a number of Members on here who possess(ed) the qualities you outline within a technical environment but surely that does not equate to any of us being able to project control a pandemic with all the right answers from day one. Within one's own field of expertise certainly but outside of that would be less likely, there would have to be a learning curve where mistakes would inevitable be made.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It’s only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

Well at last we agree on something. There are plenty of those about. I'm still looking back over both this site and other archives to see where those now squawking were making their warning in advance. And I'm drawing a blank. Maybe you can provide the reference?

[Ray B]

As the lock down began there were the few police officers who given the chance would have willingly pulled on Jack boots and a peeked hat, so quick were they to try and stamp their authority on anyone they could.
Then there were those who logged people's movements and rang the details into the police. Now don't get me wrong, phoning in details of groups or anything that could present a risk of infection to others is the correct thing to do.
But now the police themselves have now acknowledged a lot of the phone calls are a malicious attempt to get at some of their neighbors, what kind of country are we becoming.
Maybe if these phone warriors lived in a totalitarian state they would watch who they spoke to and who about lest the knock on the door in the middle of the night. Get a life do.

[Gill W]

I was reading somewhere earlier that some "expert" was suggesting how the exit could be done and how most things could be back to normal by late summer except for the over 70s who will have to remain in lockdown for at least another year or until a vaccine is available - now how would that be policed and can you see the over 70s actually conforming?

I've seen that idea mooted a few times over the last few weeks, that every one gets back to normal and leave the over 70s and the vulnerable isolated for an extended period. Normally this idea is put forward by someone who is fed up with lockdown and wants to go down the pub, and doesn't realise that the over 70s also have lives they'd like to go back to.

I think the current three months shielding ends some time in June. Nothing will have changed by then, and whatever the government advises, I think anyone who is able to, should carry on being socially distant. But I think it will depend on the individual - if over 70's see everyone else starting to have a bit of life again, some will break ranks and go out and about. it's just human nature.

[Manoverboard]

As the lock down began there were the few police officers who given the chance would have willingly pulled on Jack boots and a peeked hat, so quick were they to try and stamp their authority on anyone they could.
Then there were those who logged people's movements and rang the details into the police. Now don't get me wrong, phoning in details of groups or anything that could present a risk of infection to others is the correct thing to do.
But now the police themselves have now acknowledged a lot of the phone calls are a malicious attempt to get at some of their neighbors, what kind of country are we becoming.
Maybe if these phone warriors lived in a totalitarian state they would watch who they spoke to and who about lest the knock on the door in the middle of the night. Get a life do.

There are places in this country where that would seem ' appropriate' ... but Norfolk for goodness sakes ?

[Gill W]

The point is that the government was getting advice from its health experts yet chose to ignore it. This was in contrast to any other country except perhaps the USA. This wasn’t hindsight at the time, it was foresight.

That was my take on it too

[towny44]

The point is that the government was getting advice from its health experts yet chose to ignore it. This was in contrast to any other country except perhaps the USA. This wasn’t hindsight at the time, it was foresight.

That was my take on it too

I still await some genuine evidence from anyone that the govt deliberately ignored SAGE guidance at any time so far during this pandemic.
There are lots of experts around with differing views so some will have suggested different tactics from the govt, but the govt have stated throughout that they have followed the SAGE guidance.

[Mervyn and Trish]

A bit more research on the skill of hindsight.

Back at the start of March Onelife was posting daily his tips for Cheltenham. Only one member of this forum posted back then to query whether it was wise to go ahead.

It wasn't any of those who are now saying, with the benefit of hindsight, that it should have been cancelled.

So it is true. It is only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

[oldbluefox]

I'm afraid I take all of these leaks and media reports with a pinch of salt since we no longer get the full picture. Talking to a nursing friend of mine the picture is very different to that being portrayed in the media so who to believe? I would rather take my opinion from somebody actually working in the sector without an axe to grind over and above organisations which seek to promote their own political views for the purposes of sensationalism.

[oldbluefox]

So it is true. It is only people who have no foresight who see everything in hindsight.

which begs the question how can you have foresight over an unknown quantity?