Brexit

[barney]

I'd say that Labour voters are as equally split as Tory voters and the public in general, John. About 50/50 either way. It's really up to the EU to move slightly or we just go.

[Jack Staff]

Labour members Jack not Labour voters, I would guess that quite a large majority of voters will be leave supporters.

Yes, and the only reason I am not quoting a link to my figure of 70-90% of members is that it comes from Gwardian, Independent, FT, Mirror....
I just wanted to save you all the trouble of posting remain bias comments.

[barney]

Typical MSM. Colluding against the people

[Jack Staff]

[towny44]

Well now she has a mandate from parliament, do we think TM can get the EU to renegotiate the Irish backstop?

[Jack Staff]

A spokesman for European Council president Donald Tusk says the Irish backstop is
"part of the withdrawal agreement and the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation"

Sky

[barney]

A spokesman for European Council president Donald Tusk says the Irish backstop is
"part of the withdrawal agreement and the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation"

Sky

We will see Jack.
The ball has been thrown back to them.
We will now see whether the EU is actaully serious about concluding a Withdrawal Agreement.
Of course, it doesn't help the situation that May was badly advised to sign the original agreement.
I reckon that they will come up with some acceptable hash.

[Jack Staff]

They were very serious about concluding the withdrawal agreement when they concluded the withdrawal agreement some time ago.

[barney]

They were very serious about concluding the withdrawal agreement when they concluded the withdrawal agreement some time ago.

Yes, but that was on the assumption that they had a deal Jack.
TM put Ollie Robbins in charge, bypassing the Brexit secretary (two of 'em).
What was she thinking?
Bad advice but she took it, a bit like her snap election.

The WA needs to be ratified by the UK Parliament and then the EU Parliament.
We all know that the EU Parliament is just a talking shop and will ultimately do as they are instructed.

The EU negotiators now have a decision to make.
Reopen and talk, or risk the No Deal and a Hard border.
The choice of which way it goes depends on Merkel & Macron because it's their economies which will be most affected by no deal.
Macron talks big but has no balls,. the yellow Vests proved that.
Merkel is just killing time but wouldn't want her legacy to be the demise of the German motor industry.

We'll see how it all turns out.

[towny44]

If the EU is as serious as it says about avoiding a hard border in Ireland, then they have to think carefully how they ensure there is not a "no deal" brexit without reopening the withdrawal agreement, the onus is now on them.

[Jack Staff]

It will turn out that the Brexiters blame the EU for everything.
The threat of a catastrophic no deal will lead to a vote (Parliament/Peoples/GE) that will end this Brexit nightmare.

[Jack Staff]

If the EU is as serious as it says about avoiding a hard border in Ireland, then they have to think carefully how they ensure there is not a "no deal" brexit without reopening the withdrawal agreement, the onus is now on them.

Not a problem for the EU. There will be no hard border. NI will reunify.
It's what NI voted for, to be in the EU.

[barney]

It will turn out that the Brexiters blame the EU for everything.
The threat of a catastrophic no deal will lead to a vote (Parliament/Peoples/GE) that will end this Brexit nightmare.

I beg to differ Jack, but time will tell.

Should the EU refuse point blank to talk about a proposal from the UK, then that says it all.
Article 50 clearly states that the EU must negotiate in good faith.
This will show their true colours either way.

Talk and the say no. That is a negotiation.
Refuse to talk at all and they leave themselves open to accusations.

This could be their opportunity to bail Ireland out of the terrible future that awaits them with no deal.

The EU have totally misjudged the UK's resolve from the beginning.
The quislings in the UK have given them a sense that the UK would capitulate at some stage.
That now looks very unlikely and questions are being asked.

[Jack Staff]

As you say, time will tell

[barney]

If the EU is as serious as it says about avoiding a hard border in Ireland, then they have to think carefully how they ensure there is not a "no deal" brexit without reopening the withdrawal agreement, the onus is now on them.

Not a problem for the EU. There will be no hard border. NI will reunify.
It's what NI voted for, to be in the EU.

I have no problem with that at all.
As a matter of fact, I'd welcome it, as long as it was what the majority in NI wanted.
Maybe Ireland wouldn't be so keen and would look to the UK to contribute financially.
Northern Ireland could bankrupt Ireland.
Then there are the issues of the NHS, pensions etc.
But, I respect democracy, and if it's what they want, then fine.
The same applies to Scotland & Wales.
They must know that they are not prisoners.

[Jack Staff]

I have no problem with that at all.

I can understand your point of view.
However, it's not up to you. It is currently up to the Conservative and UNIONIST party.
Once NI has gone so is the DUP, and the Tories are gone (though I expect that to happen beforehand)
Once NI is gone so is Scotland.
This cuts to the heart of the Tories. They can not let that happen, it is the end for them.

[Jack Staff]

Welcome the UK Parliament's decision to reject a no-deal & the hope of cross-party talks on future relationship.
We stand by Ireland & the Good Friday Agreement.
There is no majority to re-open or dilute the Withdrawal Agreement in the Europarl including the backstop.
Guy Verhofstadt

[barney]

Again you confused me. The Tory heartland is England. They would benefit numerically by a split.

[barney]

Welcome the UK Parliament's decision to reject a no-deal & the hope of cross-party talks on future relationship.
We stand by Ireland & the Good Friday Agreement.
There is no majority to re-open or dilute the Withdrawal Agreement in the Europarl including the backstop.
Guy Verhofstadt

He's a bag of wind who loves the sound of his own voice. No influence whatsoever

[Jack Staff]

He's a bag of wind who loves the sound of his own voice. No influence whatsoever

Of course not.
He is a non Brexit believer after all.

[Jack Staff]

Again you confused me. The Tory heartland is England. They would benefit numerically by a split.

What? After failing so badly at their supposed reason for existence?

[Gill W]

Juncker and Tusk are saying exactly the same thing. Or do they have no influence either?

[Onelife]

Well now she has a mandate from parliament, do we think TM can get the EU to renegotiate the Irish backstop?

Hi John...A good result for Theresa tonight although her negotiating hand would have been stronger had the 'no dea'l amendment not gone through....she needs to let them know from the outset that our staying in a customs union is a none starter, this is crucial if we are to make any headway in negotiating the backstop.

There seems to be a renewed confidence in what she is taking to Brussels so it's a case of wait and see......For what it's worth l still think she can pull this off.

keith

[barney]

That's like making out that the Labour Party is just for the working class. Have you seen the typical Labour activist lately. Very middle class

[towny44]

Again you confused me. The Tory heartland is England. They would benefit numerically by a split.

Agree with you Barney if NI, Wales and Scotland leave the UK then ,assuming similar voting patterns to 2017, the Tories will hold 55% and Labour 42% of the seats.