Muses on a sad day . . .

[Dark Knight]

The equine has my sympathy as it is way past expired and still being subjected to abuse

[Boris+]

Hi ChesterfieldJohn -

Aha - flagellation = whipping, yes? Whipping has to take place for the cream in my cream tea. Any further whipping - is that boots and kippers then?

I think that this topic has just about run it's course now. Today is over and done with, at the end of the day Baroness Thatcher only ever did two things to upset me - firstly she grew old and secondly she died.

I am so grateful for what she did for all of us, and so sad at her demise.

Em

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Hi ChesterfieldJohn -

Aha - flagellation = whipping, yes? Whipping has to take place for the cream in my cream tea. Any further whipping - is that boots and kippers then?

I think that this topic has just about run it's course now. Today is over and done with, at the end of the day Baroness Thatcher only ever did two things to upset me - firstly she grew old and secondly she died.

I am so grateful for what she did for all of us, and so sad at her demise.

Em

Well congratulations you are grateful for what she did for all of us, including the Blacks in South Africa?

[Ray Scully]

Well congratulations you are grateful for what she did for all of us, including the Blacks in South Africa?[/quote]


Don't forget 'finding' all that North Sea gas and oil.

Ray

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Well congratulations you are grateful for what she did for all of us, including the Blacks in South Africa?

Don't forget 'finding' all that North Sea gas and oil.

Ray[/quote]


Wow I didn't realise she discovered that herself.

It was discovered in 1965 by the way

[Boris+]

Hi CJ,

I have no problems with anything that Baroness Thatcher did.

Meanwhile - end of story. Moving swifty on........

Em

[paultheeagle]

My excellent, well balanced and fair post what I posted earlier this evening, has I feel been over looked by you all. Therefore I reproduce it below for your perusal and enjoyment....You don't want to miss it

Thank you.

"I to am pleased that Mrs Thatcher's funeral went well without any major blips, let the Tories say farewell to their hero....Whatever one thinks about her she was a wife, a mother and grandmother and whoever serves their country in the capacity of Prime Minister deserves to have their funeral paid for by the tax payer, the people whom she served.....she cannot hurt anyone else again...she's gone...I too felt proud to be British.

Should she have been put on a par with Sir Winston Churchill and given a State Funeral....No, not for me, but that is another argument.

And that's it.

My old Mum used to say all the time to me about someone who has died...."If you can't say something nice about someone, then say nothing at all."

Nuff said..

Goodbye Maggie"

[paultheeagle]

This post is about what Mrs Thatcher did for this country that was good.

Tamed the Unions.
Got us a rebate from Europe.

Can't think of anything else.

[Dark Knight]

PTE
I saw it and read it
very restrained on your part
Kudos to the Eagle

[Dancing Queen]

Exactly Moby, those of us that can detach ourselves from the "hatred" that many show towards Baroness |Thatcher would not deny any other Prime Minister the right to a state/ceremonial funeral ..it's called being "grown up"

WOW how self righteous [/quote]

Self Righteous not at all John but I am realistic [/quote]

Sorry but what you are actually saying is that anyone who cannot detach themselves from their hatred towards Thatcher is not grown up.

Surely that is self righteous ?[/quote]

No John it isn't and I didn't say those that cannot detach themselves are not grown up, I said those that can and accept are being grown up there is a difference.

You obviously have very different views to me, which you are perfectly entitled to have, one of our closest friends is "standing" in the local elections in a couple of weeks time, will we be supporting them ... No but that makes not an iota of difference to our friendship or respect for each other, each to their own and all that and it just goes to prove that we can all be grown up whatever our political preferences might be.

[gfwgfw]

Hey Ho Paul

Not wanting to embarrass your good self . . . I hesitated to respond

Knowing full well your feelings for the lady in question

I applaud you "considered" post with great admiration

Thank you

Lubooo lots

Graham

[Dancing Queen]

My excellent, well balanced and fair post what I posted earlier this evening, has I feel been over looked by you all. Therefore I reproduce it below for your perusal and enjoyment....You don't want to miss it

Thank you.

"I to am pleased that Mrs Thatcher's funeral went well without any major blips, let the Tories say farewell to their hero....Whatever one thinks about her she was a wife, a mother and grandmother and whoever serves their country in the capacity of Prime Minister deserves to have their funeral paid for by the tax payer, the people whom she served.....she cannot hurt anyone else again...she's gone...I too felt proud to be British.

Should she have been put on a par with Sir Winston Churchill and given a State Funeral....No, not for me, but that is another argument.

And that's it.

My old Mum used to say all the time to me about someone who has died...."If you can't say something nice about someone, then say nothing at all."

Nuff said..

Goodbye Maggie"

Every credit to you Paul for saying that

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Sorry but what you are actually saying is that anyone who cannot detach themselves from their hatred towards Thatcher is not grown up.

Surely that is self righteous ?[/quote]

No John it isn't and I didn't say those that cannot detach themselves are not grown up, I said those that can and accept are being grown up there is a difference.

You obviously have very different views to me, which you are perfectly entitled to have, one of our closest friends is "standing" in the local elections in a couple of weeks time, will we be supporting them ... No but that makes not an iota of difference to our friendship or respect for each other, each to their own and all that and it just goes to prove that we can all be grown up whatever our political preferences might be.[/quote]

Being Chesterfield he will probably get in then

[Dancing Queen]

Probably

[paultheeagle]

This post is about what she did that was lets say, not quite so good for this country.

Destroyed communities.
Split families.
High unemployment.
Was best friends with a fascist dictator (Augusto Pinochet, remember him)
Called Nelson Mandela a terrorist (good one)
Section 28
She hated football....Try to blame football for all of societies problems.
The Poll Tax Riots....which was, when you look at it, quite a fair tax but it was so badly dealt with.
Allowed council Tennant's to buy their homes (That was quite good but forgot to replaced the houses she sold....whoops)
Sank the Belgrano. (made her a war criminal how she get away with that one)
Almost destroyed the NHS
Was instrumental in the Hillsborough Disaster cover up.
Sold off the nationalized industries to her rich Tory mates, who all got richer....Something that all of us are paying for now.
Said there is no such thing as Society (Today's Tories claim she never said that and distance themselves from that one, apparently she was mis quoted....she wasn't, she said it)
Thatcher, Thatcher....The milk snatcher...remember that one)


That'll do...quite a list ain't it.

And for the above she gets a State funeral.....The last politician that got that was Sir Winston Churchill...How come she was treated the same as Sir Winston...Their records just ain't comparable are they....I have absolutely no problem with her funeral being paid for by the tax payer...but a State funeral?

[noddy10]

Fantastic post PTE and think that says it all about what Margaret Thatcher really was and the damage she did to this country. Amen.

[Ray Scully]

Sold off the nationalized industries to her rich Tory mates, who all got richer...

By selling them on to European operators. Bg is now the only major UK company.

Ray

[Delboy]

What was Thatcher's greatest reform? Why, of course, the Labour party. Tony Blair had to genuflect before the Thatcher shrine before the British public would elect him. The unsexing of leftwing Labour was probably the achievement of which, privately, she was most proud.

She left her footprints all over New Labour policy

Other than the poll tax, labour has never reversed any of her reforms.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

What was Thatcher's greatest reform? Why, of course, the Labour party. Tony Blair had to genuflect before the Thatcher shrine before the British public would elect him. The unsexing of leftwing Labour was probably the achievement of which, privately, she was most proud.

She left her footprints all over New Labour policy

Other than the poll tax, labour has never reversed any of her reforms.

Because they haven't been reversed does it make them right?

[Delboy]

Sold off the nationalized industries to her rich Tory mates, who all got richer...

By selling them on to European operators. Bg is now the only major UK company.

Ray

She was not the first to consider public ownership, according to the socialist party.

Militancy growing

TWENTY FOUR million working days were lost in 1972, a rise in militancy unprecedented for over 50 years.

This radicalisation was reflected inside the Labour Party by a big shift to the Left. Indeed the 1972 conference passed a Militant (forerunner of the Socialist Party) motion calling for nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy.

Whilst not going that far, Labour's 1973 Programme was its most radical since 1945 including a commitment for public ownership of shipbuilding, the aircraft industry, pharmaceuticals, and North Sea gas and oil. The 1974 election manifesto talked of carrying out a "fundamental and irreversible shift in power and wealth" and being proud of its socialist aims.

However, the Labour government that followed, once the pressure of workers' struggles had abated, did not "squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked" as Chancellor Denis Healey promised, in fact they began 'free market' monetarist policies even before Thatcher!

Nevertheless, this period shows how the workers' movement could affect, influence and bring change in the Labour Party, unlike today when New Labour has become an openly capitalist party.

[Admiral of the Humber]

This post is about what she did that was lets say, not quite so good for this country.

Destroyed communities.
Split families.
High unemployment.
Was best friends with a fascist dictator (Augusto Pinochet, remember him)
Called Nelson Mandela a terrorist (good one)
Section 28
She hated football....Try to blame football for all of societies problems.
The Poll Tax Riots....which was, when you look at it, quite a fair tax but it was so badly dealt with.
Allowed council Tennant's to buy their homes (That was quite good but forgot to replaced the houses she sold....whoops)
Sank the Belgrano. (made her a war criminal how she get away with that one)
Almost destroyed the NHS
Was instrumental in the Hillsborough Disaster cover up.
Sold off the nationalized industries to her rich Tory mates, who all got richer....Something that all of us are paying for now.
Said there is no such thing as Society (Today's Tories claim she never said that and distance themselves from that one, apparently she was mis quoted....she wasn't, she said it)
Thatcher, Thatcher....The milk snatcher...remember that one)


That'll do...quite a list ain't it.

And for the above she gets a State funeral.....The last politician that got that was Sir Winston Churchill...How come she was treated the same as Sir Winston...Their records just ain't comparable are they....I have absolutely no problem with her funeral being paid for by the tax payer...but a State funeral?

Paul, I am not a political animal and am not responding as a Tory, merely somebody who dislikes inaccuracies;

Spending on the NHS actually increased whilst Margaret Thatcher was in office.

Nelson Mandela was a member of the ANC, a terrorist organisation.

Regards
Rob

[paultheeagle]

Derek...there is a massive difference between talking about doing something and actually doing it.....Would Labour have ever sold of the utilities, maybe we don't know.....What we do know is the Tories under Mrs Thatcher did do it and we are still feeling the pain.

[wolfie]

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to

Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987


"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

[Delboy]

Paul

Rather than your list I prefer this article in the Economist,

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... ba3c16df4a

[Kendhni]

This forum would be up in arms if it was Tony Blair, it is clear from the comments that the majority of posters are Tories.

Quite possibly because unlike Mrs Thatcher, Tony Blair was more interested in self promotion and really did not achieve much apart from going on a spending spree with the money he inherited from the previous government ... then after he had emptied the coffers he kept on spending. Many on the left obviously agree that his government was weaK, incompetent and ineffective since they are still blaming Thatcher for everything.

Whether or not it is deemed he deserves one at some later date will be determined by others.

But for all those whining and whinging about the cost, many who are had the money to spend on champagne and music they will never listen to, then like verything else it copmes from pooled resources. What next they will complain about funding the royals, complain about funding education (those without children), complain about funding child care (ditto), complain about funding roads (those that do not drive), complain about funding old people homes, complain about funding pensions that were not paid for, complain about funding wars, complain about funding the work shy etc. etc. etc.

We all have to pay for things that we do not need or want ... for those that can not get their small minds round that concept then I will pay their contribution towards Thatchers funeral, if they pay extra towards keeping pedophiles in luxury in prison (which is something I don't like paying for), or maybe contribute extra towards the work shy (which I begrudge paying for).

The problem with the majority of people who believe in one party, in my opinion, is that they only see one side of any argument/discussion.

That argument also applies to union members who have been told by the unions to point the blame at Thatchers - the same unions that are the real reason why much of our industry was decimated ... that was the start of the culture of 'it is always somebody elses fault'.