Life After Brexit

[barney]

You’ve got to laugh really.
I’ve been saying for years that the Eu claims to be a rules based organisation while constantly breaking the rules.
Even this massive Covid bail out fund that they are trying to raise on the money markets contravenes the Maastricht Treaty of mutual debt.

The Internal Market Act is merely an insurance against the Eu attempting to put up unnatural barriers within the U.K. single market.
I’m totally for it.
Once we are fully out, it’s totally unrealistic for them to think they can still have legal influence.
They have to come to terms with the point that if they want a free trade agreement with us, then these are the terms.

The withdrawal agreement was signed by the UK and the EU so that both parties could protect the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement

In my opinion, the WA was signed by this government for no other reason than to get the U.K. out of the Eu.
Had they not signed it, we would still be in the same position due to a massive lack of judgment by the May government.
She and her team agreed the sequencing and that was an error from the start.
She should have insisted on trade talks and wa talks simultaneously.
That’s water under the bridge now but did hand the advantage to them until Johnson and his team took over.

[Gill W]

You’ve got to laugh really.
I’ve been saying for years that the Eu claims to be a rules based organisation while constantly breaking the rules.
Even this massive Covid bail out fund that they are trying to raise on the money markets contravenes the Maastricht Treaty of mutual debt.

The Internal Market Act is merely an insurance against the Eu attempting to put up unnatural barriers within the U.K. single market.
I’m totally for it.
Once we are fully out, it’s totally unrealistic for them to think they can still have legal influence.
They have to come to terms with the point that if they want a free trade agreement with us, then these are the terms.

The withdrawal agreement was signed by the UK and the EU so that both parties could protect the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement

In my opinion, the WA was signed by this government for no other reason than to get the U.K. out of the Eu.
Had they not signed it, we would still be in the same position due to a massive lack of judgment by the May government.
She and her team agreed the sequencing and that was an error from the start.
She should have insisted on trade talks and wa talks simultaneously.
That’s water under the bridge now but did hand the advantage to them until Johnson and his team took over.

If that was the reason it was signed, it was signed in bad faith by the U.K.

[barney]

The withdrawal agreement was signed by the UK and the EU so that both parties could protect the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement

In my opinion, the WA was signed by this government for no other reason than to get the U.K. out of the Eu.
Had they not signed it, we would still be in the same position due to a massive lack of judgment by the May government.
She and her team agreed the sequencing and that was an error from the start.
She should have insisted on trade talks and wa talks simultaneously.
That’s water under the bridge now but did hand the advantage to them until Johnson and his team took over.

If that was the reason it was signed, it was signed in bad faith by the U.K.

Absolutely 100% it was signed in bad faith but the simple truth is that Johnson had little choice or it would have just continually gone round in circles.
I am pretty sure that they knew the potential pitfall with ref to a border in the Irish Sea but were confident that if push comes to shove, we’ll just change our laws.
He has after all got a massive majority, given to him mainly by disaffected voters from right across the country who had had enough of all of the anti democrats shenanigans.
The last election blew a massive hole in the myth that Labour supporters voted remain.
I know loads and only one I know preferred to remain.
That’s my younger brother by the way.

[Gill W]

You’ve got to laugh really.
I’ve been saying for years that the Eu claims to be a rules based organisation while constantly breaking the rules.
Even this massive Covid bail out fund that they are trying to raise on the money markets contravenes the Maastricht Treaty of mutual debt.

The Internal Market Act is merely an insurance against the Eu attempting to put up unnatural barriers within the U.K. single market.
I’m totally for it.
Once we are fully out, it’s totally unrealistic for them to think they can still have legal influence.
They have to come to terms with the point that if they want a free trade agreement with us, then these are the terms.

The withdrawal agreement was signed by the UK and the EU so that both parties could protect the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement

How much longer are the EU going to keep on about protecting the integrity of the Good Friday agreement. It took the Germans less than 20 years to break the Treaty of Verailles, so the GFA is now past its sell by date.

The Good Friday agreement is an international treaty, and was agreed by referendum with the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

I’m completely astonished that you seem to be implying that the GFA can be binned after 20 years.

I was going to say that what the Nazi Party did more than 80 years ago was irrelevant to the present day.

However, a lot of people compare what is happening in this country today to the rise of Fascism and the Nazis in 1930s Germany. If the Nazis broke the Treaty of Versailles, then maybe it’s not to far fetched that this government would break the GFA (or any other international treaty)

Remember, it was you who put this thought into my head!

[barney]

The Internal Market Bill does not affect the GFA at all.
The entire strategy by the Eu is ridiculous.
To say that they would impose a border in Ireland due to U.K. actions is an absolute bluff.
Who would build it ?
Not us that’s for sure.
Ireland? Nope.
The Eu ? No chance.
It’s simply a total red herring.
The WA is all about the Eu trying to maintain some kind of control but unfortunately for them, this government hasn’t fallen for it.

I think that the Eu have acted disgracefully from the start.

[towny44]

I was going to say that what the Nazi Party did more than 80 years ago was irrelevant to the present day.

However, a lot of people compare what is happening in this country today to the rise of Fascism and the Nazis in 1930s Germany. If the Nazis broke the Treaty of Versailles, then maybe it’s not to far fetched that this government would break the GFA (or any other international treaty)

Remember, it was you who put this thought into my head!

I realise you were not born when the Nazi's were in power, but I assume you have read and heard enough about what they did to be able to accurately compare them with the current govt. If you genuinely believe that BJ's govt shares any of the same unsavoury characteristics of the Nazis, then I am deeply disappointed that you have such poor judgement skills.

[Gill W]

I was going to say that what the Nazi Party did more than 80 years ago was irrelevant to the present day.

However, a lot of people compare what is happening in this country today to the rise of Fascism and the Nazis in 1930s Germany. If the Nazis broke the Treaty of Versailles, then maybe it’s not to far fetched that this government would break the GFA (or any other international treaty)

Remember, it was you who put this thought into my head!

I realise you were not born when the Nazi's were in power, but I assume you have read and heard enough about what they did to be able to accurately compare them with the current govt. If you genuinely believe that BJ's govt shares any of the same unsavoury characteristics of the Nazis, then I am deeply disappointed that you have such poor judgement skills.

As usual, you haven’t read my post properly.

[towny44]

I was going to say that what the Nazi Party did more than 80 years ago was irrelevant to the present day.

However, a lot of people compare what is happening in this country today to the rise of Fascism and the Nazis in 1930s Germany. If the Nazis broke the Treaty of Versailles, then maybe it’s not to far fetched that this government would break the GFA (or any other international treaty)

Remember, it was you who put this thought into my head!

I realise you were not born when the Nazi's were in power, but I assume you have read and heard enough about what they did to be able to accurately compare them with the current govt. If you genuinely believe that BJ's govt shares any of the same unsavoury characteristics of the Nazis, then I am deeply disappointed that you have such poor judgement skills.

As usual, you haven’t read my post properly.

Yes I know you prefaced the comment with "a lot of people compare what is happening in this country.....", but the fact you choose to repeat those comments in no way distances you from being associated with them.
As usual you raise comments just to see the reactions they arouse, and I have to assume you find credibility in them, otherwise why bring them up in the first place.

[Kendhni]

The Internal Market Bill does not affect the GFA at all.

BS

The WA is all about the Eu trying to maintain some kind of control but unfortunately for them, this government hasn’t fallen for it.

BS. The WA is an agreement created through negotiation between the UK and the EU. It passed through the HoC as a 'great' 'oven ready' deal with the government refusing to allow any due diligence to be carried out on and openly mocking those that wanted it to be scrutinised. So either Johnson again lied to the electorate knowing that it was not fit for purpose, or he was crassly incompetent and didn't even bother to read it before forcing it through parliament (dumping anybody and everybody that did not kowtow to his demands).

I think that the Eu have acted disgracefully from the start.

More BS. Prior to the referendum the EU laid out its stall, it basically said if you want to leave then you must actually leave and renegotiate a trade deal as any other country would have to (leave-means-leave was an EU demand). Sadly some gullible idiots believed the brexit leadership when their only response to this was to cower behind the words 'project fear' and that 'we held all the cards' (Gove), 'we can have our cake and eat it' (Johnson), 'getting out of the EU can be quick and easy' (Redwood) and most stupid of all 'we will offer them a deal in response to their pleas for help' (Minford).

On day one we sent David Davies (a man referred to as arrogant, lazy and incompetent by his peers) to tell the EU how it was going to be ... he thought he was going to cherry pick, once the EU had finished laughing at him they sent him home with his tail between his legs. That was the first point that brexiteers (or at least those that understood what was happening) realised that 'project fear' had just become project reality. Up until that point the brexit leadership had no brexit plan, no brexit strategy and no brexit vision, they thought they could wing it. It took them over 3 years to sort their self-inflicted mess out - most of the problem being that there were so many varieties of brexit that they had to hold vote after vote in HoC (until they got the answer they wanted).

That is why internationally the EU is seen to have acted openly, honourably and in good faith whereas the UK has been seen to have acted arrogantly, dishonourably and in bad faith. The EU has also given multiple extensions when the UK came slithering begging for more time (I know some brexit idiots still believe the EU has more to lose than the UK - although that myth was trashed over 4 years ago).

You will often see stories, posts and the gutter media talk about politicians being ranting, being furious, near tears etc. etc. - that is just BS they have made up in their own tiny little minds (it is probably all they have, no counter argument just fools making up something). Every single time I have heard adjectives like that, I go and look for the story and every time, without fail, it has been a calm and thought out response (I am guessing that to some people/media, having an opposing opinion amounts to fury ... rolls eyes at stupidity).

That is why we now have 'secret meetings', so that the politicians can talk like adults rather than having to play act to their followers and the media. I am glad to see this ... although I have no faith that Johnson has a clue what he is doing and will sign up to anything (as he obviously did with the WA).

[Gill W]

I realise you were not born when the Nazi's were in power, but I assume you have read and heard enough about what they did to be able to accurately compare them with the current govt. If you genuinely believe that BJ's govt shares any of the same unsavoury characteristics of the Nazis, then I am deeply disappointed that you have such poor judgement skills.

As usual, you haven’t read my post properly.

Yes I know you prefaced the comment with "a lot of people compare what is happening in this country.....", but the fact you choose to repeat those comments in no way distances you from being associated with them.
As usual you raise comments just to see the reactions they arouse, and I have to assume you find credibility in them, otherwise why bring them up in the first place.

I’m not going to dignify that comment with a response - expect to say, once again, you are making it personal by making assumptions about my motives and making public comment about it.

Just a few days ago, I asked you to stop this behaviour, and you have, as usual ignored my request.

I will not ask you again. If you continue to make it personal, I will deal with it by using the facility that this forum provides.

[towny44]

As usual, you haven’t read my post properly.

Yes I know you prefaced the comment with "a lot of people compare what is happening in this country.....", but the fact you choose to repeat those comments in no way distances you from being associated with them.
As usual you raise comments just to see the reactions they arouse, and I have to assume you find credibility in them, otherwise why bring them up in the first place.

I’m not going to dignify that comment with a response - expect to say, once again, you are making it personal by making assumptions about my motives and making public comment about it.

Just a few days ago, I asked you to stop this behaviour, and you have, as usual ignored my request.

I will not ask you again. If you continue to make it personal, I will deal with it by using the facility that this forum provides.

I see that you believe in attack being the best form of defence, but strange as it may seem to you I have no wish to attack you personally, but picking up on comments you make and asking for clarification of your motives seems reasonable to me. I have many times explained to you why I hold certain views, and never felt that any questioning by you was personal. These are merely exchanges between forum members who have differing views, and I am always willing and very happy to defend my corner when my views are questioned.

[Manoverboard]

Squabble like children and call each other names if you will but the UK & EU talks continue in an adult way

[oldbluefox]

A Canada style deal looks pretty oven ready to me but whilst the EU were happy to give Canada this deal they seem very reluctant to offer the UK the same which surprises me since we are such an insignificant nation. That being so I cannot see their concern. On the other hand.........

[Kendhni]

A Canada style deal looks pretty oven ready to me but whilst the EU were happy to give Canada this deal they seem very reluctant to offer the UK the same which surprises me since we are such an insignificant nation. That being so I cannot see their concern. On the other hand.........

Fact check
https://infacts.org/exactly-canada-style-deal/

Despite some brexiteers initially pushing for a Norway style deal, then some wanted a Swiss deal, while others wanted a Hong Kong style deal, while yet others wanted a Canada style deal (which hadn't even been defined at the time) they then realised none of those would work so we moved onto the Canada+ deal before moving to the Norway+ deal and now we are back to looking at the Canada deal which is what the EU proposed in the first place. If only the UK could actually decide on which of the many brexit options (actual and fabricated) they wish to pursue and stop moving the goalposts.

Barnier/EU proposed a Canada style deal 3 years ago. The problem is that it excludes many things the UK thinks it is entitled to (hence why the UK makes up deals like Canada+, Canada++ and Canada+++, which so far have never been on the table and do not exist, outside of the brexiteer land of fairy tales and unicorns).

So given Johnsons prior skills in negotiating he will take a deal placed on the table, make a few tweaks that effectively make it worse for the UK, pretend it is his deal, lie through his teeth about the contents, and convince his gullible fawning sycophants it is a great deal. He will force it through parliament, firing anyone that is not a 'yes man', refuse and sneer at anyone that asks for due diligence to be carried out ... and then spend the next 4 years back pedalling furiously because he hadn't bothered reading what he signed up to and had no concept of the commercial, political and economical ramifications to the UK (pretty much what he has done with the May/Johnson WA)

[Happydays]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that we are leaving. Personally I don't care if we get a deal or not! ...if we get one we're happy with we'll take it if not we won't

[towny44]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that we are leaving. Personally I don't care if we get a deal or not! ...if we get one we're happy with we'll take it if not we won't

Why are there not more sensible level headed people like you around Happydays?

[Kendhni]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that we are leaving. Personally I don't care if we get a deal or not! ...if we get one we're happy with we'll take it if not we won't

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held and no deal was soundly thrashed, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from their political representatives and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent government delivers then they have got the representation they deserve.

Those still bleating on about no deal are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

[towny44]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that we are leaving. Personally I don't care if we get a deal or not! ...if we get one we're happy with we'll take it if not we won't

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held and no deal was soundly thrashed, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from their political representatives and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent government delivers then they have got the representation they deserve.

Those still bleating on about no deal are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

Give it a rest Ken, we know your views, but similarly you know ours, and they dont in any way match your interpretation of them.

[Kendhni]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that we are leaving. Personally I don't care if we get a deal or not! ...if we get one we're happy with we'll take it if not we won't

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held and no deal was soundly thrashed, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from their political representatives and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent government delivers then they have got the representation they deserve.

Those still bleating on about no deal are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

Give it a rest Ken, we know your views, but similarly you know ours, and they dont in any way match your interpretation of them.

Give it a rest John, we know your views, but similarly you know ours, and they don't in any way match your interpretation of reality.

[Manoverboard]

Heard it all before and I do not need a lecture this rainy Sunday morning thank you kindly

[towny44]

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held and no deal was soundly thrashed, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from their political representatives and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent government delivers then they have got the representation they deserve.

Those still bleating on about no deal are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

Give it a rest Ken, we know your views, but similarly you know ours, and they dont in any way match your interpretation of them.

Give it a rest John, we know your views, but similarly you know ours, and they don't in any way match your interpretation of reality.

Final word Ken, you have no idea what our interpretation of reality is, but it certainly is different to your ideas. Oh and by the way, we have left the EU and the end of the transition period is the 31st Dec 2020.

[oldbluefox]

Despite some brexiteers initially pushing for a Norway style deal, then some wanted a Swiss deal, while others wanted a Hong Kong style deal, while yet others wanted a Canada style deal (which hadn't even been defined at the time) they then realised none of those would work so we moved onto the Canada+ deal before moving to the Norway+ deal and now we are back to looking at the Canada deal which is what the EU proposed in the first place. If only the UK could actually decide on which of the many brexit options (actual and fabricated) they wish to pursue and stop moving the goalposts.

Barnier/EU proposed a Canada style deal 3 years ago. The problem is that it excludes many things the UK thinks it is entitled to (hence why the UK makes up deals like Canada+, Canada++ and Canada+++, which so far have never been on the table and do not exist, outside of the brexiteer land of fairy tales and unicorns).

You describe very eloquently the farce which was the negotiating position of Onelife's friend TM along with Olly Robbins who attempted to dress up Brexit in Remain's clothing. With a parade of Remainer politicians from the right and the left trooping across the Channel and the futile attempts of the Remainers thinking that by protests, parades, the wearing of silly hats and paying a clown to stand outside Westminster waving flags and placards and making a total t*t of himself they could overturn the vote of 2016 and ultimately turned the electorate against them. For all Boris' faults he has been resolute in bringing this charade created by Remainer politicians to an end.

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held and no deal was soundly thrashed, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from their political representatives and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent government delivers then they have got the representation they deserve.

Those still bleating on about no deal are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

We've heard it all before idiots who can't accept that the vote has been held, we are leaving and we have been promised that the May/Johnson WA was a 'great' 'oven ready' deal. Personally I have standards and expect the government to deliver on its promises ... if there are people with such low expectations from the EU and such low standards that they will take whatever crumbs this crassly incompetent organisation delivers then they got the representation they deserved.

Those still bleating on about Remain are just undemocratic treacherous idiots living in the past and hindering the brexit that the people voted for and were promised.

Ultimately there will b a deal and it will be a compromise. Our Remainer friends will leap up and down with their star spangled banners shouting 'I told you so' as they seek any crumbs of comfort from the fact they did not get their own way. Pathetic really. Only time will tell,

[Kendhni]

You describe very eloquently the farce which was the negotiating position of Onelife's friend TM along with Olly Robbins who attempted to dress up Brexit in Remain's clothing. With a parade of Remainer politicians from the right and the left trooping across the Channel and the futile attempts of the Remainers thinking that by protests, parades, the wearing of silly hats and paying a clown to stand outside Westminster waving flags and placards and making a total t*t of himself they could overturn the vote of 2016 and ultimately turned the electorate against them. For all Boris' faults he has been resolute in bringing this charade created by Remainer politicians to an end.

You don't get to rewrite history. The remain clown may have been outside the HoC but the brexit clowns (like Davies and Johnson were inside and tasked with delivery of the promised brexit and spectacularly failed).

The failure is 100% down to the brexiteers having no plan, no vision and no strategy. 4 years down the line and brexiteers still cannot say what brexit means - any time they have got close they move the goal posts or start back pedalling. The brexit camp told us what they would deliver, laid it out as 10 bullet points and so far they haven't delivered a single one. The brexit camp has forced vote after vote in the HOC desperately trying to get the answer they wanted, then when they do they start back pedalling again.

But if you want to be really scared, think about it logically. What is the post-brexit plan? What happens at the end of this year? Who is the minister in charge of a successful post-brexit UK? We have a minister for brexit failure but not one for brexit success. That is the problem with Johnson he bumbles along making it up as he goes from pillar to post (he can;t even remember what he said the day before) and spends more time planning for failure rather working towards success (although to be fair that is endemic in the public sector).

Ultimately there will b a deal and it will be a compromise. Our Remainer friends will leap up and down with their star spangled banners shouting 'I told you so' as they seek any crumbs of comfort from the fact they did not get their own way. Pathetic really. Only time will tell,

That is pretty much what I have said all along, there will be a compromise deal and the government should focus on items of major importance instead of letting the media and the small minded drag it along based on trivial things like fishing (while I rate it as a conspiracy theory, there was an interesting read that suggested the EU orchestrated the focus on fishing so that Johnson doesn't get to focus on the more important topics).

I suspect that those leaping up and down waving their tiny little union flags will be brexiteers claiming it is not what they voted for, while brexit leadership tries to spin their failure to deliver on their promises into something wonderful. As you say, pathetic really.

[oldbluefox]

You don't get to rewrite history. The remain clown may have been outside the HoC but the brexit clowns (like Davies and Johnson were inside and tasked with delivery of the promised brexit and spectacularly failed).

But this is exactly what you are doing Ken. It was TM in the driving seat and it was TM who would not listen. She had her own agenda ultimately being vilified by her party and humiliated as a soft touch in Brussels. The deal she put forward in Chequers was a disaster, not only for the Brexit camp but for the Remain vote as well. Negotiated with the EU it must have been manna from heaven for them and something they have ultimately been reluctant to give up.
The fisheries issue has taken away the living of whole fishing communities. This may be totally acceptable to those in the City making vast amounts of money from their EU connections but their gains are detrimental to vast swathes of the country who do not share their wealth and are literally left with little or nothing. It is not only the fishermen who suffer but all who are connected to the servicing of the industry. That is why fishing and the rights of the fishermen are so important. Excuse the pun but they are small fry in your world but vital in theirs.

[barney]

In four years time, this U.K. will be having an election.
That’s quite a good way away and gives the Kens of this world plenty of time to get their ducks in a row for their campaign to join the EU.
Given that they claim to represent the majority, it should be a walk in the park, shouldn’t it ?

Should the result of the next election be for a party that has stood on a manifesto of joining the EU, I, and I expect millions of others will respect the outcome.
Democracy can only operate if the losers accept the decision.
Unfortunately there are still a few Japanese soldiers fighting the war that has long finished.
It’s actually a recognised mental illness if you care to google it.