Brexit

[Stephen]

And there's more.......


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49936352

[Gill W]

I'm sorry you don't like my choice of words Gill, because it was me that said "appease terrorists".

Maybe I misused the words, but surely it is the threat of terrorists returning that makes everyone so twitchy about the border issue? If that threat wasn't there would we be worrying about a border? Borders exist elsewhere without the threat of terrorism. That's what I meant about appeasement. But I apologise if its the wrong word.

However, moving forward can you see any way of keeping the border fully open, keeping the UK intact and actually leaving the EU, because I can't?

No deal means a border.

Boris's deal means a border, though not as visible.

Theresa's (rejected three times) deal means a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Breaking up the UK. Which is definitely not what I for one want.

The only solution to satisfy the Irish (both sides of the border) and the EU, would be if we scrapped Brexit. Even that wouldn't actually really satisfy the Irish Republicans because what they want is a united Ireland outside the UK.

Now I know you're quite open that what you would like is no Brexit. But given the government's promised task is to deliver Brexit, how would you propose they do that?

And if they do, can you be confident those that want to break up the UK by re-unifying Ireland or pursuing independence for Scotland will go away? Because both issues were festering long before Brexit was even a thought.

Or do the unwritten words in the GFA actually mean the UK is not free to leave the EU at any time under any circumstances?

Thank you Mervyn, apology accepted

As for the rest of your post, I'm not really sure I can add anything constructive, I'm in the same boat as you - I can't see any workable way of achieving Brexit that keeps the border open, keeps the UK intact, and actually leaving 'properly.'

I think the problem is that the reality has now caught up with the promises that were made three years ago at the time of the referendum. What was promised just isn't deliverable.

If technology really did exist that would keep an open border, there would never have been a problem with the backstop, because the backstop would never need to come in to play. Even in border situations with the most slick technology currently available, like Norway and Sweden, there is still border infrastructure in place.

Also, if our border was with any other country than Ireland, it wouldn't matter if there was border crossing infrastructure. I'm no expert on Irish history, but there's 800 years of history between the UK (well, England) and Ireland. England, historically hasn't acquitted itself well. It's only recently that relations have become amicable - several Irish people have told me that the Queen's visit in 2011 meant a lot to the Irish, and did a lot to help heal old scars. The open border, with no checks has played its part as well - I can't see that it would be a good thing to mess around with this.

Strictly speaking, it was a previous government who promised to deliver Brexit. For whatever reason, the following governments have also decided to continue down this path.

It's not Project Fear to say that this country has been damaged by successive government actions on Brexit. There are 66 million people in this country. The government should work for what is best for 66 million people, and not pander to just 17.4m regardless of the consequences. This just intensifies the split, which won't heal in our lifetimes.

I find it all very sad, to be honest.

Even if we leave it's still not going to be over - years and years of negotiations about future relationships and trade deals await.

If Brexit stopped, some people would be upset, but most people would probably be relieved. Perhaps that's better than everybody being unhappy.

[david63]

And there's more.......


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49936352

Please try and keep up - I posted that three hours ago

[barney]

Yeah. What's the point?
Just call the whole thing off.
That will keep everyone happy?

You've got to be kidding surely.

Can you seriously imagine any politician from any party campaigning for anything in the future and having the trust to actually deliver.

As this board's resident leftie, I've been more aware than most about the rise of the far right all across the world, from trump to bolisarno to salvi.

The reason that these guys have been successful is because they have latched on to the fact that the professional political class actually find the voters a bit of a nuisance.
They have their agenda and want to persue it.

If the biggest vote in this countries history is not enacted in some way shape or form, then the political class deserves all it gets.

It will start with a boycott of elections which will allow the door to be opened to extremists on both sides of the divide.

Careful what you wish for folks.

[Stephen]

And there's more.......


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49936352

Please try and keep up - I posted that three hours ago

Sorry m'lud, I missed it. It won't happen again.....as I back away doffing my forelock

[oldbluefox]

Remainers like to use statistics to make their case.
Of the 12 regions in the UK only Scotland, N Ireland and Greater London voted to remain in the EU.
Of the population of 66,040,229 only 16,141,241 voted to remain in the EU. Therefore 49,898,988 did not vote to remain.
By constituency 406 voted to leave, 242 to remain (This is broadly in line with the best estimates available, based on the seats parties won at the 2015 general election, although the numbers are not quite perfect (there are 650 constituencies in the UK, but the numbers in this image only add up to 648).
Should we be pandering to the wishes of the 25% of the population who actively voted to stay in the EU?
Interestingly by MP 160 to leave and 486 to remain.
(Source: https://fullfact.org/online/referendum- ... stituency/)

[oldbluefox]

Interesting that Rory Stewart, MP for Penrith and the Border has decided to stand down and leave the Tory party. I wonder how much the fact that Penrith voted to Leave and Rory knows he may not be reselected and if he was, he would probably lose. Jump before you are pushed Rory? Little wonder these Remainer MPs are running scared of a General Election.
I may be wrong and there may have been a tremendous shift towards Remain but certainly in these parts I doubt it. Should be absolutely fascinating and I can't wait!!!

[david63]

I also think that Rory Stewart is throwing his toys out of the pram as he got nowhere in the leadership campaign. I also read somewhere that he is putting up for Mayor of London. Where do his loyalties lie? - certainly not with his (ex)constituents as it would appear all he wants is the "position"

[towny44]

I also think that Rory Stewart is throwing his toys out of the pram as he got nowhere in the leadership campaign. I also read somewhere that he is putting up for Mayor of London. Where do his loyalties lie? - certainly not with his (ex)constituents as it would appear all he wants is the "position"

He must know he won't win but he could gain enough Tory remain voters to prevent the Tory candidate from winning, I so despise sore losers.

[Ray Scully]

If no deal Brexit is really what Leavers wanted all along, why are they now desperately trying to blame it on the European Union

[Mervyn and Trish]

It's not what I want or what most Brexiteers want. But sadly it now looks increasingly likely, because Remainer MPs (for the most part, but with a few extreme Leavers) scuppered the only deal on offer.

But why blame the EU? Maybe because it's their fault? They refuse to recognise the previous proposal is a dead duck and refuse to negotiate on the new proposals put to them, despite the fact that No Deal will have the very consequences for Ireland they say they wish to avoid.

And why is that? Because they believe the Remainers will ultimately scupper us leaving at all. Which has been the EU aim all along. They never have negotiated on the basis that we are actually leaving.

[oldbluefox]

I would have thought leaving with a deal was the best outcome because it's logical we will still deal with the EU even after we leave (contrary to what the Remainers seem to think if we crash out, fall over the edge of the cliff never to see Europe ever again). Therefore it makes sense to strike a deal. However May tried and now Johnson and throughout the negotiations the EU have stuck by their own red lines, backed up by Remainer MPs and pressure groups who have done everything they could to stand in the way of achieving a deal.
Nobody can say we have not tried to strike a deal so yes, if the cap fits Mr Juncker, Barnier & Co then wear it!!
Had we all stuck together to negotiate a deal it could have been so much easier but some people could not accept the result of the referendum and sought to reverse it.

......and Why are you shouting Ray?

[Manoverboard]

… because he's starting to panic ?

[Stephen]

Roll on the 31st ....and then we can the EU goodbye.

[Ray Scully]

… because he's starting to panic ?

Yep panicking as to whether my principals or my purse will come out on top

[oldbluefox]

Are you sure Stephen. After that there will be no more Mercs, BMWs, Peugeots, Citroens, prosecco, Italian and French wines, European holidays, the ports will be clogged up, medicines will be in short supply, fresh fruit and veg rotting at the ports, criminals running amok etc etc (if you believe what certain Remain factions tell us. Yellowhammer will rule Britannia).
Expect a dip in fortunes during the interim period but at long last we will be free from the clutches of the EU and free to trade with the rest of the world as we see fit.
One small note.......... I will be pleased to see an end to the export of sheep and livestock to foreign abattoirs. Whoever thought that was acceptable should be squashed up into a lorry and made to journey for 24+hours not knowing where they are going nor what will happen at the other end. It is a cruel and despicable ruling imposed on us by the EU. Good riddance.

[Ray Scully]

It's not what I want or what most Brexiteers want. But sadly it now looks increasingly likely, because Remainer MPs (for the most part, but with a few extreme Leavers) scuppered the only deal on offer.

Must not Forget the Spartans and the UDP M&T

[Mervyn and Trish]

Whoever thought that was acceptable should be squashed up into a lorry and made to journey for 24+hours not knowing where they are going nor what will happen at the other end.

Isn't that pretty much the Ryanair business model?

[Ray Scully]

Whoever thought that was acceptable should be squashed up into a lorry and made to journey for 24+hours not knowing where they are going nor what will happen at the other end.

Isn't that pretty much the Ryanair business model?

[Stephen]

Are you sure Stephen. After that there will be no more Mercs, BMWs, Peugeots, Citroens, prosecco, Italian and French wines, European holidays, the ports will be clogged up, medicines will be in short supply, fresh fruit and veg rotting at the ports, criminals running amok etc etc (if you believe what certain Remain factions tell us. Yellowhammer will rule Britannia).
Expect a dip in fortunes during the interim period but at long last we will be free from the clutches of the EU and free to trade with the rest of the world as we see fit.
One small note.......... I will be pleased to see an end to the export of sheep and livestock to foreign abattoirs. Whoever thought that was acceptable should be squashed up into a lorry and made to journey for 24+hours not knowing where they are going nor what will happen at the other end. It is a cruel and despicable ruling imposed on us by the EU. Good riddance.

Couldn't care less about the cars Foxy. Not taking any meds at the moment and I drink mainly Aussie red wine, none of that French muck. As for holidays, I'd be just as happy taking holidays at home.

[Ray Scully]

A
Expect a dip in fortunes during the interim period but at long last we will be free from the clutches of the EU and free to trade with the rest of the world as we see fit.

Well I hope that the dip in fortunes is commensurate with income with the tax system levelling things out.

[Ray Scully]

I am being attacked on line presumably for my Brexit views. I am getting countless emails for funeral plans.

[towny44]

If we do leave without a deal and sink without trace then I will humbly apologise to Gill, Ray and Jack, if he ever comes back, but I have this weird feeling that everything will be alright, and that we might just find it's a lot rosier certainly than the remainers have painted it

[Stephen]

I am being attacked on line presumably for my Brexit views. I am getting countless emails for funeral plans.

[oldbluefox]

Couldn't care less about the cars Foxy. Not taking any meds at the moment and I drink mainly Aussie red wine, none of that French muck. As for holidays, I'd be just as happy taking holidays at home.

Heck, I'd forgotten about Toblerone, Lindt and Belgian chocolates. What have I done!!!!!???