johnds wrote:
And "Call me Dave" and his sidekick Georgie Porgie aren't telling exagerated scare stories and untruths ?
Of course they are - they are politicians.
John
You will need to provide more evidence of these untruths you comment about under ""My problem is more with the simplistic, irrelevant and often disingenuous proclamations being made by the likes of Boris Johnson & Michael Gove."" So that we can weigh your evidence before we pass judgement on you.Not so ancient mariner wrote:johnds wrote:
And "Call me Dave" and his sidekick Georgie Porgie aren't telling exagerated scare stories and untruths ?
Of course they are - they are politicians.
John
Valid point, but an intelligent politician doesn't tell ones that even my cat can see through.......!
I too have no problem with the single market but not at the expense of open bordersMervyn and Trish wrote:I have no problem with the single market. It's the rest of the political circus I detest with the like's of Frau Angela telling us what we can and cannot do
She doesn't.Mervyn and Trish wrote:I have no problem with the single market. It's the rest of the political circus I detest with the like's of Frau Angela telling us what we can and cannot do
Doubt that will worry him as he has already said he is leaving the job before the next GEDark Knight wrote:our current PM ... will be lucky to have a job, once the dust settles
It was she who blocked at least one of Dodgy Dave's reforms and left him in the mess he's now in. It was she who dictated the terms around the Greece bailout. And it is she who has been wading into the Brexit debate in the last few days.Quizzical Bob wrote:She doesn't.Mervyn and Trish wrote:I have no problem with the single market. It's the rest of the political circus I detest with the like's of Frau Angela telling us what we can and cannot do
Yes John, agree with that caveat.johnds wrote:I too have no problem with the single market but not at the expense of open bordersMervyn and Trish wrote:I have no problem with the single market. It's the rest of the political circus I detest with the like's of Frau Angela telling us what we can and cannot do
John
Silver_Shiney wrote:Yes to an open trading market.
No to open borders - not just for our country, but anywhere.
No to political union (aka political interference from other countries)
Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? Germany is stumping up most of the loans for Greece, none of which comes from us so of course they dictate terms.Mervyn and Trish wrote:Silver_Shiney wrote:Yes to an open trading market.
No to open borders - not just for our country, but anywhere.
No to political union (aka political interference from other countries)
Though of course they never do that, especially Frau Merkel. Ask QB. He knows.
Thank you QB. One side of starting to lose an argument is when you start to be personally abusive to those who don't side with your point of view.Quizzical Bob wrote:
You lot have such a strong in-built prejudice against anything European that there is no use trying to convince you with honest, logical, truthful answers. I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders.
And I am equally shocked to observe that lies and half truths and wild allegations form the backbone of those leading the remain campaign.brillo wrote:I have to say that I have been shocked by the way that many of the Boris for king group are prepared to lie in order to gain there own ends !!!
Great. Then we can veto any moves towards further integration, we can veto any new additions to the EU, we can veto any increase in budgets in future years.Quizzical Bob wrote:Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? .
Go for it QB. The true colours of the in campaign revealed. Anyone who disagrees is mis-informed. Gosh and I thought this was a democratic vote in which we all have an equal right to our say. Silly me.Quizzical Bob wrote:I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders
Quizzical Bob wrote:Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? Germany is stumping up most of the loans for Greece, none of which comes from us so of course they dictate terms.
You lot have such a strong in-built prejudice against anything European that there is no use trying to convince you with honest, logical, truthful answers. I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders.
On this topic I am completely at one with Sir Alan Sugar: “I’ve lived here 69 years. And I’m frightened. There could be half the population that believe in this nonsense.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... stake.html
and many more.
I am totally on your side regards immigration but leaving the EU will not make a blind bit of difference. The bulk of the increase is not from the EU, it is from the rest of the world and has been since the start of the Blair government. Leaving the EU will not reduce it. Several million have come to Britain since the doors were opened (not that they were ever shut). So much for sovereignty and control of our own governments.Mervyn and Trish wrote:Great. Then we can veto any moves towards further integration, we can veto any new additions to the EU, we can veto any increase in budgets in future years.Quizzical Bob wrote:Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? .
Yes, absolutely correct. Of course if we leave then we have no vetoGo for it QB. The true colours of the in campaign revealed. Anyone who disagrees is mis-informed. Gosh and I thought this was a democratic vote in which we all have an equal right to our say. Silly me.Quizzical Bob wrote:I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders
Yes, of course you have as much right as anybody else to vote. All I ask is that you make it from the right information.
It's not xenophobia QB. It's claustrophobia. This is a tiny island that becomes more crowded every day. But perhaps you don't ever go out on the roads or have cause to visit your local A&E department. Still as you're so keen and so European, just let us have your postcode so the predicted 10 million increase in our population over the next 30 years can be located in the green belt next door to you.
Sorry, Shiney, the quote from Merv was included for free when I pressed the button. I certainly wouldn't use his name in vain.Silver_Shiney wrote:Quizzical Bob wrote:Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? Germany is stumping up most of the loans for Greece, none of which comes from us so of course they dictate terms.
You lot have such a strong in-built prejudice against anything European that there is no use trying to convince you with honest, logical, truthful answers. I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders.
On this topic I am completely at one with Sir Alan Sugar: “I’ve lived here 69 years. And I’m frightened. There could be half the population that believe in this nonsense.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... stake.html
and many more.
If you are going to criticise me for posting something, please don't include Merv's post. He may not wish to be tarred with the same brush.
The EU set out their fishing policy,which means that we no longer have sole (pun not intended) access to our territorial waters. Did we veto that? No. That's just one instance of interference.
Germany might be bearing the brunt of the Greek bail-out, that doesn't mean they can dictate terms on other matters to the rest of us.
I am not a "xenophobic mis-informed little Englander" - this political union has come in through the back door, it's not what the first referendum on joining the Common Market was about. I just want my country back.
You're a brave man backing up your arguments on here with an article from the Daily Mail....
but you could easily have tweaked it to remove his reference...Quizzical Bob wrote:
Sorry, Shiney, the quote from Merv was included for free when I pressed the button. I certainly wouldn't use his name in vain.
Merely picking up on your comment singling out Germany. I am aware that it's the rest of the European Commission as a whole that imposes these rulings on us, not one single country. I am also aware that many non-Europeans come here. A large number come from Africa and the middle East. Were you aware that they come initially to Europe and then, because of the Schengen agreement, a great many come straight here because they've heard that we're a soft touch? If they left their homeland to come straight here, without taking advantage of the Schengen nonsense, I wonder how many would succeed in gaining entry?Quizzical Bob wrote:Germany can't and doesn't dictate terms to us. It has a veto just like us so whereas it can tell us what we can't do regards the EU it cannot tell us what we must do.
QB, you are definitely losing the plot, and on here probably the argument, whilst the Brexit supporters on the forum have disagreed with your arguments and reasons for remaining in the EU, we have not tried to smear you in any way.Quizzical Bob wrote:Oh for goodness sake! We all have a veto, is that political interference? Germany is stumping up most of the loans for Greece, none of which comes from us so of course they dictate terms.
You lot have such a strong in-built prejudice against anything European that there is no use trying to convince you with honest, logical, truthful answers. I despair for our future and that of our grandhildren if one of the most important decisions is going to be made on the basis of xenophobic mis-informed little Englanders.
On this topic I am completely at one with Sir Alan Sugar: “I’ve lived here 69 years. And I’m frightened. There could be half the population that believe in this nonsense.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... stake.html
and many more.
Sorry, cutting and pasting is not so easy on my iPad application.Silver_Shiney wrote:but you could easily have tweaked it to remove his reference...Quizzical Bob wrote:
Sorry, Shiney, the quote from Merv was included for free when I pressed the button. I certainly wouldn't use his name in vain.
Merely picking up on your comment singling out Germany. I am aware that it's the rest of the European Commission as a whole that imposes these rulings on us, not one single country. I am also aware that many non-Europeans come here. A large number come from Africa and the middle East. Were you aware that they come initially to Europe and then, because of the Schengen agreement, a great many come straight here because they've heard that we're a soft touch? If they left their homeland to come straight here, without taking advantage of the Schengen nonsense, I wonder how many would succeed in gaining entry?Quizzical Bob wrote:Germany can't and doesn't dictate terms to us. It has a veto just like us so whereas it can tell us what we can't do regards the EU it cannot tell us what we must do.
