Brexit

[Onelife]

Jack wrote...

"The brave new world of Brexit, where it's good to make fun of the old and especially foreigners"

I tell you what Jack, one of the saddest thing that ever happened to our country was when we allowed sensitive snowflakes telling us what is or isn't funny.

[Stephen]

I certainly wouldn't what that old geezer slobbering all over my face...kissy kissy or not...yuk!

Which old geezers do you prefer then

Tell me how much money you have and you could be in the running

I'm potless thank gawed

[Onelife]

I certainly wouldn't what that old geezer slobbering all over my face...kissy kissy or not...yuk!

Which old geezers do you prefer then

Tell me how much money you have and you could be in the running

I'm potless thank gawed

[Mervyn and Trish]

I certainly wouldn't what that old geezer slobbering all over my face...kissy kissy or not...yuk!

Which old geezers do you prefer then

Tell me how much money you have and you could be in the running

I'm potless thank gawed

Is that Essex talk for cheapskate?

[Stephen]

Which old geezers do you prefer then

Tell me how much money you have and you could be in the running

I'm potless thank gawed

Is that Essex talk for cheapskate?

No, giving it all away to the 'help the aged DJ's' charity'. .........I'm good like that....plus it's tax deductable

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'll look forward to receiving the cheque!

Would you mind Gift Aiding it?

My wife says I need an extra 20%

[screwy]

I'll look forward to receiving the cheque!

Would you mind Gift Aiding it?

My wife says I need an extra 20%

Funnily enough, she told me that too.

[towny44]

This thread seems to have drifted way off course, a bit like TM's Brexit plan I guess.

[Jack Staff]

This thread seems to have drifted way off course, a bit like TM's Brexit plan I guess.

Really??? Perhaps it's what she wanted all along?????

No, she is definitely out of her depth.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm surprised she's not co opted you to the cabinet as an expert adviser Jack. You have all the information at your fingertips.

[Stephen]

I'll look forward to receiving the cheque!

Would you mind Gift Aiding it?

My wife says I need an extra 20%

I'd heard that rumour too

[towny44]

This thread seems to have drifted way off course, a bit like TM's Brexit plan I guess.

Really??? Perhaps it's what she wanted all along?????

No, she is definitely out of her depth.

Along with your misjudgement about leaving the EU, you are also becoming very cynical Jack.

[barney]

Oh! this is the only thing that Jack and I agree on, John.

I think May has been pretty useless since the beginning. In my opinion, her mission was always to deliver the 'softest' Brexit ever and was keeping her powder dry until the crunch time came.

If you look at her proposal, it's pretty much what Labour have been suggesting for about a year. That's why they will be embarrassed to vote it down.

Only a Prime Minister who actually believed that leaving the EU would be in the long term interest of this country should have led the team.
At the time of the Tory leadership elcetion, they were too busy stabbing each other in the back to run an effective campaign.
Last two standing were May (Remain) and Leadsom (Leave)
Then, if you remember, the left wing press ran a hate campaign against Leadsom on some trivial statement she had made about TM being childless.
Leadsom took so much flack from that statement that she decided to stand dowm leaving a no contest.
So May 'won' by being last woman standing.

She will argue that technically, she is standing by the Tory manifesto commitment of leaving the EU institutions, but the working reality is somewhat different.
However, there are 'sunlit uplands' to use Jack's phrase.
If the EU agree to this proposal, any future government (of any Party) can rescind it, should they see fit.
It will not lock the UK in forever, only for as long as we want to be locked in.

When even the most diehard Remoaners see that things can actually improve by having a fully sovereign government (like the rest of the world) the arguement will be put to bed.

Has anyone ever noticed that the only countries applying to join the EU are third rate, impoverished backwaters, looking for a hand out.
Not Switzerland, Not Norway. nope! Albania & Serbia. Says it all doesn't it.

[Jack Staff]

Oh! this is the only thing that Jack and I agree on, John.
......

Except Leadsom is an idiot. It wasn't really what she said, just that she removed all doubt about her suitability.

Has anyone ever noticed that the only countries applying to join the EU are third rate, impoverished backwaters, looking for a hand out.
Not Switzerland, Not Norway. nope! Albania & Serbia. Says it all doesn't it.

Ah well you see that's where our fundamental differences lie. The EU was created by third rate, impoverished backwaters (after the devastation of WWII) and with the addition of other third rate, impoverished backwaters (yes I am including the UK of 1970) have grown into a family of prosperous nations (there is always a black sheep in any family). Economic differences causes problems, by helping the third rate, impoverished backwaters the EU increases it's market of richer countries to sell to. Everyone gets richer, maybe some don't get richer quite as quickly as outside, but do have the support of a whole family behind them in leaner times, protecting the group against larger powers.
You may no like the idea but as it has lasted 70 years, it obviously has some value.

[barney]

I don't normally breakdown a posting to reply in sections as I find it a bit purile and childish, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Point 1 -Leadsom is an idiot ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Leadsom

A bit rich coming from an obsessive internet troll, in my humble opinion.

Point 2 - It's not good to re-write history
The founding members of The Common Market were anything but impoverished backwaters and when we joined The Common Market, we were the fourth largest economy in the world. (now 5th or 6th depending on how it's calculated)
"Having grown into a family of prosperous nations"
Do me a favour!
If they are so prosperous, how come that the vast majority of EU members need to be subsidised by a few.
19 of the 28 members pay in less than they get out. (you can check)
Sure, they are more prosperous than when they joined because of our handouts to the tune of about £12 billion a year.
Our payback has been to be lucky enough to be flooded with eastern European migrants all looking for a better life. (can't blame them)
Any country that has a quick and massive spike in it's population will have problems, as Germany & Sweden are now finding out.
Immigration must be controlled by the country people are trying to get in to.
Without that, you get anarchy.

Had The Common Market stayed as The Common Market, then I'd reckon that 90% of folk who voted to Leave, would not have done so.
You see Jack, that is kind of the point.
Trading alliance = good
Political alliance = not so good

Love Europe
Hate the EU.

[Jack Staff]

I don't normally breakdown a posting to reply in sections as I find it a bit purile and childish, but in this case I'll ....

I find it works in clarifying specific points.
I do find the term "obsessive internet troll" a little insulting. Just because I disagree, and point that out, via the internet, does not make me a troll.

We all know people who have impressive qualifications/awards/job titles who are complete and utter ......

Whatever your view of migrants, we need them.
Leaving the EU those migrants will come from elsewhere, probably the Commonwealth, probably the Indian sub continent.
Brexit will not stop migration.
We could easily have controlled immigration from the EU before Brexit. Laws are already in place and used by many countries. Our Home Secretary of the time chose to use her right (and British sovereignty) not to.

Everything moves on and Europe has developed over time.
Brexit suits certain people because it holds the ideal of taking Britain back to the comfortable, period dramas of the 1950's. It simply won't work.

[barney]

Once again in your last sentence you give your opinion as fact. Unless of course time travel is amongst your many talents.

[towny44]

Ah well you see that's where our fundamental differences lie. The EU was created by third rate, impoverished backwaters (after the devastation of WWII) and with the addition of other third rate, impoverished backwaters (yes I am including the UK of 1970) have grown into a family of prosperous nations (there is always a black sheep in any family). Economic differences causes problems, by helping the third rate, impoverished backwaters the EU increases it's market of richer countries to sell to. Everyone gets richer, maybe some don't get richer quite as quickly as outside, but do have the support of a whole family behind them in leaner times, protecting the group against larger powers.
You may no like the idea but as it has lasted 70 years, it obviously has some value.

I think the US funded Marshall plan ($110 billion in 2016 value) had a hell of a lot more to do with the recovery of Western Europe than the EU which commenced in 1957 as the EEC. I do wish you would try to find a neutral site for your information Jack, it seems you are sourcing your data from very eurocentric sites full of the drunken ramblings of the likes of Juncker, who of course don't have any axe to grind when relating their views of the wondrous EU that pays their over inflated salaries and their expense claims.
I am definitely with Barney, if it was still a trading block with a modest civil service budget, rather than a pseudo federal state with an over inflated budget, then my vote would have been different.

[Jack Staff]

You may no like the idea but as it has lasted 70 years, it obviously has some value.

than the EU which commenced in 1957 as the EEC.

"Under and within that world concept we must re-create the European family in a regional structure called, it may be, the United States of
Europe, and the first practical step will be to form a Council of Europe."
Winston Churchill, speech delivered at the University of Zurich, 19 September 1946

The Marshall plan was helpful until we broke the rules and were plunged into another recession of our own making.

[oldbluefox]

Brexit suits certain people because it holds the ideal of taking Britain back to the comfortable, period dramas of the 1950's. It simply won't work.

You really don't understand do you Jack? Some of your statements are becoming increasingly preposterous.

[david63]

Whatever your view of migrants, we need them.

No we don't - well perhaps some of them with certain skills.

The only reason we need migrants is because our benefits system works in favour of our unemployed. Whilst we have unemployment we do not need migrants to fulfil job vacancies that our own people could do if they were get off their backsides, and yes I know that does not apply to all unemployed but there are many that it does apply to. But that is all another discussion.

[oldbluefox]

Pressure on the NHS, shortage of school places, house shortages, welfare system struggling but we need to bring more and more migrants in. Is this from the Diane Abbott Book of Mathematical Riddles.
We do need migration to fill certain vacancies but I agree with David, some people need to get off their backsides and earn their living.

[barney]

There is that David but the main attraction is the in work benefits that the UK offer. Any minimum wage job can be accepted because tax funded top ups are available. So an engineer from Poland with a couple of kids can take a job as a delivery driver and make more than at home. The vast majority of migrants (Roma aside) come to work and are prepared to do so. We should still expect migration after we have left but we can control it. Also no benefits without prior contribution which we don't have now.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Isn't Theresa May's "back me or there'll be no Brexit" just what the Remainers in her party want to hear?

[Jack Staff]

Isn't Theresa May's "back me or there'll be no Brexit" just what the Remainers in her party want to hear?

That was yesterday.
Today it is May says "there is not going to be a second referendum on Brexit under any circumstances"
You will recall she also said that there would not be a general election
and that there was no magic money tree.