Scottish Independance

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I have split this into its own topic as it has become a discussion in its own right - David

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the Clyde, Aberdeen, and then Edinburgh, although I may scrap the Scots ones if they vote for independence.

I must take issue with you Frank. Scotland has always been and will always be an independent country.

The union of the crowns in 1707 was only accomplished as a result of the Marquess of Montrose and the Duke of Roxburghe selling us down the river to protect their personal land holdings in England.

The vote in September is to decide whether we want, in addition to being an independent state, “Self Government” so that the prissy English middle classes, and those known as the ‘Eton Mess’, can stop meddling in our way of life.

And to stop us Scots being branded, once again as scroungers, let me remind you that in the 2011/2012 tax year Scotland contributed £10,700 per person whereas the Rest of the UK only contributed £9,000 per person as a whole. Since 1980/1981 Scotland has contributed £222 billion more in tax revenues if aggregated against the rest of the UK per capita.

[Quizzical Bob]

The union of the crowns in 1707 was only accomplished as a result of the Marquess of Montrose and the Duke of Roxburghe selling us down the river to protect their personal land holdings in England.

The vote in September is to decide whether we want, in addition to being an independent state, “Self Government” so that the prissy English middle classes, and those known as the ‘Eton Mess’, can stop meddling in our way of life.

And to stop us Scots being branded, once again as scroungers, let me remind you that in the 2011/2012 tax year Scotland contributed £10,700 per person whereas the Rest of the UK only contributed £9,000 per person as a whole. Since 1980/1981 Scotland has contributed £222 billion more in tax revenues if aggregated against the rest of the UK per capita.

Please don't get me started! We have had to suffer years of misgovernment on account of all the Scottish MPs at Westminster. If Scotland is independent then please can we have England back?

[towny44]

ITWA John, I dont recognize any of your stats. The UK govt continually issue stats that show that the Scots get far more back from the state than they contribute, so one of you is wrong and I know who I believe.
Anyway come september you will be able to decide whether to believe Alex Salmond and if enough do then we will no doubt find out who was correct.

[Mervyn and Trish]

How did a topic on Britannia turn into a debate on Scottish independence?

[david63]

I blame Frank

[Mervyn and Trish]

True. He'll be in real bother if Cornwall wants independence too.

[towny44]

No the real reason is the cost of repainting the revised Union flag after we eliminate the Scottish saltire.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It's okay, they're not painting it until after the referendum. Perhaps fares will come down if they don't use any blue paint?

If Scotland does become independent, will anyone booking through Barrhead need a visa to cruise with P&O?

[Gill W]

I think we are stronger together than apart, and when it comes to a referendum, I think the Scots will vote to remain part of the UK.

The whole thing seems to be more about Alex Salmond's ego, which I hope will be punctured after the referendum.

Anyway, 500 Miles is my favourite part of the Great British sailaway, so Scotland can't possibly leave!

[Kendhni]

... others blame the Barnett formula

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I think we are stronger together than apart, and when it comes to a referendum, I think the Scots will vote to remain part of the UK.

Gill, I think you are absolutely correct in your assumption about the Scots voting to remain part of the UK.

Sorry to disappoint QB but I for one will be voting to stay within the UK just to annoy the middle class, ‘Eton Mess’ brigade!!

[david63]

I don't think that it really matters which way the vote goes - if it is a no vote then nothing changes, if it is a yes vote then I think that the problems of separating from the rest of the UK will become so great that it will never happen - look at the currency issue that has already reared its head, and there will be many more similar issues to deal with.

It is no use Alex Salmond adoping the "ostrich pose" because that will not solve anything.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't think that it really matters which way the vote goes - if it is a no vote then nothing changes, if it is a yes vote then I think that the problems of separating from the rest of the UK will become so great that it will never happen - look at the currency issue that has already reared its head, and there will be many more similar issues to deal with.

It is no use Alex Salmond adoping the "ostrich pose" because that will not solve anything.

Funnily enough I was thinking almost the opposite.

If it is a yes vote they'll be gone. Salmond will fudge the issues to make sure he gets his way. (Interesting that at the SNP conference he described this referendum as a great opportunity for the SNP. rather than a great opportunity for Scotland).

If it's a massive no then Salmond will be history.

But if it's a marginal no, which seems a likely outcome if the polls stay as they are, then Salmond will want another vote, then another, then another, until he gets the answer he wants.

[davecttr]

I don't think that it really matters which way the vote goes - if it is a no vote then nothing changes, if it is a yes vote then I think that the problems of separating from the rest of the UK will become so great that it will never happen - look at the currency issue that has already reared its head, and there will be many more similar issues to deal with.

It is no use Alex Salmond adoping the "ostrich pose" because that will not solve anything.

Like them not being in the EU any more with little or no chance of joining. Apparently there is nothing in the EU treaty covering a member state splitting in two? Of course the treaty could be amended but that requires the agreement of ALL member states and there is no way Spain will agree because of the Catalan independence problem.

There will also have to be a hard border installed with restricted crossings and passport control. All expat scots in england, and other brits in scotland, will have to obtain work permits and decide which nationality they want to adopt.

Lots of cruise ships will call at Scotland because it not being in the EU means they can sell duty frees!.

it almost looks as if a yes vote will be a lot more fun than a no.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Lots of cruise ships will call at Scotland because it not being in the EU means they can sell duty frees!

Now there's a thought. Will I be able to nip up the M6, grab a crate of duty free malt whisky and then leg it back?

If so I'm campaigning for a yes.

[Dancing Queen]

Lots of cruise ships will call at Scotland because it not being in the EU means they can sell duty frees!

Now there's a thought. Will I be able to nip up the M6, grab a crate of duty free malt whisky and then leg it back?

If so I'm campaigning for a yes.

Now that will definitely appeal to my husband

I can't see it ever happening, we have several Scottish friends and they neither want it or expect it to happen and from what we have been told many in Scotland feel the same way.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I don't think that it really matters which way the vote goes - if it is a no vote then nothing changes, if it is a yes vote then I think that the problems of separating from the rest of the UK will become so great that it will never happen - look at the currency issue that has already reared its head, and there will be many more similar issues to deal with.

It is no use Alex Salmond adopting the "ostrich pose" because that will not solve anything.

Most people seem to believe that a Yes vote is a vote for Alex Salmond and the SNP.

If and I stress ‘If’ Scotland were to vote Yes then there would have to be an election called in Scotland to vote in a new government and it is this new government who would start to negotiate with Westminster on the details.

No one knows what these negotiation would cast up or how they would be resolved. The SNP can suppose all they want but they can’t predict what any new government would negotiate for.

Scotland has always been predominantly a socialist country so there would be no point in voting SNP. Perhaps Tommy Sheridan’s ‘Solidarity’ party, which campaigns for an ‘End to Poverty’ and for ‘Trade Union Rights’ within an Independent Socialist Scotland is who David Cameron should be worried about and not Alex Salmond.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If Scotland votes yes why would anyone in England, Cameron included, worry about that? Any Scottish government bringing in policies to potentially bankrupt the country (see France as an example) would no longer be the UK's problem.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

If Scotland votes yes why would anyone in England, Cameron included, worry about that? Any Scottish government bringing in policies to potentially bankrupt the country (see France as an example) would no longer be the UK's problem.

You do not seem to realise that a Yes vote is only the start of the negotiation process.

Take away the oil revenues, the revenue from the UK’s largest exporter; within the food and drink industry which is ‘Whisky’ and the revenue from 80% of the fish landings, to name but three and I think that the negotiations will be very important to the economy of ‘Little Old England’, let alone Scotland.

One thought which occurs to me is why everyone is presuming that the rest of the UK will not let Scotland be within the sterling zone when we are equal partners at present.

Perhaps the statement should read that Scotland may not want England to be a partner within the Sterling zone. It would be presumptuous to assume otherwise.

Who owns the £ Sterling anyway, Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales? So before anyone attempts to dictate terms, they have to be discussed and negotiated.

[towny44]

If Scotland votes yes why would anyone in England, Cameron included, worry about that? Any Scottish government bringing in policies to potentially bankrupt the country (see France as an example) would no longer be the UK's problem.

You do not seem to realise that a Yes vote is only the start of the negotiation process.

Take away the oil revenues, the revenue from the UK’s largest exporter; within the food and drink industry which is ‘Whisky’ and the revenue from 80% of the fish landings, to name but three and I think that the negotiations will be very important to the economy of ‘Little Old England’, let alone Scotland.

One thought which occurs to me is why everyone is presuming that the rest of the UK will not let Scotland be within the sterling zone when we are equal partners at present.

Perhaps the statement should read that Scotland may not want England to be a partner within the Sterling zone. It would be presumptuous to assume otherwise.

Who owns the £ Sterling anyway, Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales? So before anyone attempts to dictate terms, they have to be discussed and negotiated.

Nope John, if you secede from the Union you're on your own, if Alex Salmond is telling you that he will not pick up his share of the UK debt unless he is allowed to stay in the Sterling zone, then I suggest he has a chat with those kind people at S&P, Fitch or Moodys who will doubtless only be too happy to set Scotlands credit rating at junk bond level if they attempt to renege on their national debt.
Salmond is clearly out of his depth and likely to drown himself and anyone else deluded enough to believe him.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

Nope John, if you secede from the Union you're on your own,

I am no lover of Alex Salmond, but again you miss the point John.

The ballot paper in September is worded as follows:

“Should Scotland be an independent country?”

How can anyone read a yes result as immediate succession is beyond me? It would herald only the start of the process not the end of the process.

[towny44]

Nope John, if you secede from the Union you're on your own,

I am no lover of Alex Salmond, but again you miss the point John.

The ballot paper in September is worded as follows:

“Should Scotland be an independent country?”

How can anyone read a yes result as immediate succession is beyond me? It would herald only the start of the process not the end of the process.

John, Alex Salmond has been told by the UK Govt. that certain issues are not negotiable, which part of that do you not understand.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Who owns the £ Sterling anyway, Scotland, England, Ireland or Wales? So before anyone attempts to dictate terms, they have to be discussed and negotiated.

I think you'll find the £ is underwritten by the Bank of England, not the Bank of Scotland!

[david63]

For fear of being pedantic but doesn't Scotland already have its own currency? What about the "Scottish Pound" that is underwritten by Royal Bank of Scotland - oh yes that is the bank that we bailed out. Can we have our money back please

[Mervyn and Trish]

Whatever Salmond might want, the turmoil in the Euro has amply demonstrated that a currency union is a disaster when the countries concerned don't have a common economic and fiscal policy.

So if he wants to share the UK pound, will he accept Scotland's economic policy being decided by a parliament at Westminster where they have no representation at all, given that he's already scathing about a parliament where Scots MP's are all on the opposition benches?

Or does he expect that the rest of the UK will accept an economic policy set in Edinburgh? I think not.