Opening a hornets nest ?

[barney]

I was watching Watchdog last night and one of the articles was about charigng for babies on a plane.

Of course Watchdog were outraged as usual but we got to talking and asking how much would we be happy to pay to guarantee NO babies on our flight. Quite a bit we decided. The screaming blighters have ruined many a flight for us over the years.

Then we started discussing the potential nightmare of having a screaming kid in the cabin next door on a cruise holiday.
We've never had it but I'm sure that some have.

Any experiences of this??????

[suespud]

Just be sure you are not flying mid august from Newcastle... There will be at least 7 screaming kids on that flight All my grandchildren, ages 5 months up to 6 years.
Ear plugs at the ready.

[Boris+]

Maybe I'm biased (oh yeah?), but children sometimes have to travel - end of story. Kids are entitled to holidays too - but then they are also 'entitled' to be loved and cared for during the holiday.

If children are 'screaming' on a flight then there must be a reason for it - and parents should do all they can to ensure that children suffer as little as possible during a flight so that 'screaming' doesn't really happen. This isn't simply for the comfort etc of other passengers, but it is also for the comfort of the children.

As far as screaming children on a cruise is concerned - I have never experienced this. I have experienced loud (and drunk) adults on neighbouring balconies, but haven't had problems with children.

At the end of the day, the welfare and behaviour is the responsibility of the parents, and they should be made aware of this before travel. When parents have done their best to find out what to expect during a flight and how to 'overcome' the problem, if a child still screams then it's maybe time to be worried.

At the end of the day, a flight is not an entire holiday - you get on the plane, you fly, you leave the aircraft and start your holiday. On a ship it's a different kettle of fish - the ship is the holiday, and noisy people of any age in a nearby stateroom can be a bother.

Off on holiday Sue - hope you have a good one.

Em

[jay-ell71]

Babies on planes can be a nightmare. We had a small child behind us on a three hour flight who kicked the back of my seat for most of the way. The child was on the parents' lap. The parents did their best to occupy little Johnny, but all to no avail... The most annoying thing was that the bulk-head seats, usually given to parents and children, were occupied with child free passengers. Infuriating.

However, I also had my seat kicked by an elderly woman on a 14 hour flight from Hong Kong! When I challenged her, I was told she had as much right to the same space as I had, and I should put my seat to the upright position. I pointed out that the seat in front of me was also reclining, so I was more or less forced to recline mine. To no avail. I don't do long haul any more.

[Dark Knight]

as with many topics on here, there will be those for and against
the only issue I have is that parents look after their sprogs, on what could be a scary experience for the child and minimise the impact of the pressure changes etc

apart from that, I find most children much better behaved than some adults and some old people, who I find rude and ignorant

now that's how to stir a hornets nest

[Andrea S]

A quiet flight is a rarity.

Children and adults behind you putting the tray up and down or kicking the back of the seat. Young families with excited children. Groups of young male / females already in a holiday mood after a few drinks in the departure lounge. Then the babies, no seat of their own, Mum and Dad trying to pacify them on take off and landing , their secure world pushed out of the way, is it any wonder they get upset.

I will experience travelling with a 9 month old next week. A 4 hour flight plus 2 hours for check in is all taken care of , - - in our heads. Travelling late afternoon should keep him in his routine. There are 4 of us to hold him so all we can hope is that he settles and doesn't disturb anyone around us. Otherwise a distressed Mum & Dad to add to his confusion.

At least there are child free ships for those that require them.

[suespud]

We too have discussed at great length, the best way to try and keep them all occupied. We have tried to arrange seating to suit each family,so we don't disturb those in front. Hubby and me will "front" the group, we have three rows.. Booked and paid for, so any kicking of seats, or banging of trays will happen to our own family.
Having said that, the flight is at 6am, check in 3 hours before, soooo kids are going to be well ratty..as are the parents!! It's only a short, two and a quarter hour flight.. So not too long.

Just had to buy extra,extra luggage allowances,so they have enough for the hundreds of nappies and wipes they will be taking.

[Andrea S]

Sue, At least that early some of them may go back to sleep. The older ones will probably be too excited and at least we don't have a time difference the other end. A couple I once saw with 3 tiny ones had 4 plastic bags of nappies as hold luggage. I don't know what they paid but I though that seemed a good idea. I chose seats 1 row behind the extra leg room ones at the exit and we are behind them. At least we can stand up if necessary. He is so placid I hope he will be his normal smiley self.

[GillD46]

An aircraft is a pretty alien environment for small children. We can't expect them to sit still, often for hours on end. Perhaps we've been lucky, but we have seldom been disturbed by children in many, many, many flights.

On our last flight to the Caribbean, we were followed onboard by a family with two very young children - a baby of about 6 months and a toddler. Initially my spirits sank, we had paid a LOT to travel Upper Class, but the children were a delight. The baby slept most of the time on the mum's bed and the toddler enjoyed all the attention she was given and chatted away to us as we sat at the bar. These parents had chosen seats very sensibly.

So yes they can be excited and sometimes make a bit of noise, but we try to remember we used to travel with three young children ourselves.

[jay-ell71]

Sorry Gill, but if I had paid for Upper Class, (which I never have, more's the pity) I would not want to be chatting to a toddler in the air bar.
When we had small children, a long time ago, we drove everywhere, whether it be in the USA where we lived, or in Europe, to France. Aeroplanes are definitely an alien environment for small children until you can converse with them and have an intelligent conversation, and can reason with them, and distract them with toys etc. it is not a place for them. My heart always sinks when I see tinies in the queue. I do have grandchildren, but that doesn't mean I wanted to travel with them when they were very small.
However, what ever my opinion, small children will always travel, so no point in my ranting is there?

[lioness]

On our last flight from Dubai, I had a young boy kicking my seat for hours and another small baby screamed for at least an hour. Even the headsets didn't help. When I was a stewardess on the VC10s we had hammocks for little babies which hung from the hatracks - it was amazing how well they worked. Just the gentle movement of the a/c sent them to sleep.

[jay-ell71]

Yes, well....... Hammocks.......Good idea.......I expect Health and Safety has come into play don't you??

[suespud]

Sorry Gill, but if I had paid for Upper Class, (which I never have, more's the pity) I would not want to be chatting to a toddler in the air bar.
When we had small children, a long time ago, we drove everywhere, whether it be in the USA where we lived, or in Europe, to France. Aeroplanes are definitely an alien environment for small children until you can converse with them and have an intelligent conversation, and can reason with them, and distract them with toys etc. it is not a place for them. My heart always sinks when I see tinies in the queue. I do have grandchildren, but that doesn't mean I wanted to travel with them when they were very small.
However, what ever my opinion, small children will always travel, so no point in my ranting is there?

But it's a lot easier flying a couple of hours to go on holiday with so many little ones..rather than driving with them for hours and hours and hours......in a couped up car....
What is your alternative... Don't take small children on holidays??

[david63]

I think that we have two different scenarios for children and flying.

The first is with little tots (under the age of two/three). For these flying (even if they have done it before) is an alien, uncomfortable and unpleasant experience especially when it comes to landing. There are, in my experience, very few in this age group that do not make some level of noise when the plane is landing. The question that has to be asked is whether children of this age should be flying? My feeling is that they should not unless it is unavoidable (family moving with job to another country for example)

The second group is that of older children. Here I don't think that it is any different than having children in any other environment and a lot is down to the old "chestnut" of parental control. For many children flying can be part of the adventure of going on holiday and as long as they can be occupied then they will probably not be any more of a problem on the plane than anywhere else. Unfortunately there is the other group of children where the attitude of the parents is "they are on their holidays and can do what they want" - an attitude that will prevail throughout the holiday!

As for having children in the next cabin - there is always the option of going on an adult only ship - although some of the noises (not those noises ) from the next cabin of adults can be annoying (shouting because they are deaf, slamming drawers closed, coughing etc.)

[jay-ell71]

Sue..... Yes I think that is my alternative ... Don't take small children abroad on planes. (emphasis on the small). Having said that, my daughter has taken her small children on aeroplanes, but I wasn't with them. I don't know how tiresome or otherwise they were!!!
and it certainly does not alter my opinion that tinies and planes do not go well together. They do not have their own seat, the take off and landing makes their ears hurt, and they have no idea what is going on. As for the fact that it is only a two hour journey in a plane as opposed to a long journey in a car, would that it was. You have to be at the airport at least two hours before the flight leaves, you often have to leave home at some silly o'clock and you have then to wait for the two hours at the airport before setting off. This is not easy at all. I entirely agree with David. When they are older, they find flying exciting and they can be entertained to a certain extent, and disciplined to a certain extent. ........ hopefully

[Boris+]

Hi Sue,

Yes, sure enough you make a fair point. It's not simply a choice between a short-ish flight (yes I know all about the airport bit, but that is in an airport and not onboard an aircraft) and a longer (time-wise) journey in a car.

Now that regulations (I believe) - or recommendations - are in place that young children (babies etc) only stay in a car seat for a relatively short period of time it makes a journey take even longer by road (provided that we are talking in terms of caring parents of young babies etc).

It's not a simple or easy choice, and I suspect that if I were faced with a choice between a relatively short flight or a long road trip - it's a no brainer really.

Em

[Stephen]

Even worse. When the screaming little s*d is kicking the back of your seat at the same time! and the parents let them keep doing it.


This should be part of the booking process.

Q. Any children under five travelling with you
A. Yes

T's&C's. All children under specified age and parent or guardian will travel together in a designated sound proof area.

[Silver_Shiney]

I can't stand the sound of crying children at the best of times but I try to cut some slack on aircraft because a) I don't know if their flight is necessary and b) they're probably scared and you cannot get the mites to understand what is going on.

If a kid is kicking the back of your seat and a word with the parents doesn't stop it, then the cabin crew should be asked to intervene.

[towny44]

I can't stand the sound of crying children at the best of times but I try to cut some slack on aircraft because a) I don't know if their flight is necessary and b) they're probably scared and you cannot get the mites to understand what is going on.

If a kid is kicking the back of your seat and a word with the parents doesn't stop it, then the cabin crew should be asked to intervene.

Might even get you an upgrade to business or first class if you ask the cabin crew nicely to try and find you another seat.

[Silver_Shiney]

I can't stand the sound of crying children at the best of times but I try to cut some slack on aircraft because a) I don't know if their flight is necessary and b) they're probably scared and you cannot get the mites to understand what is going on.

If a kid is kicking the back of your seat and a word with the parents doesn't stop it, then the cabin crew should be asked to intervene.

Might even get you an upgrade to business or first class if you ask the cabin crew nicely to try and find you another seat.

Probably wouldn't work if you are not travelling alone

[Boris+]

Well, over the years I've had to put up with unacceptable behaviour from other passengers during a flight several times. Little ones crying - I can sort of cope with that, it's not intentional and the parents did their best. Kids who are old enough to know the meaning of the word 'no' or 'stop' are not tolerated. My daughter never behaved like that on a flight (throwing stuff or kicking the seat back etc), and I won't accept it from other people nowadays - and yes, if necessary the flight attendants should be asked to sort it out.

I've had adults who insisted on keeping a light on overnight during a flight - and nothing would persuade them to turn it off, and it really was annoying - but the worst of all I've ever had was a couple in the two seats in front of us 'at it'!!! As you can imagine their seat backs moved quite a bit, and therefore whatever we had on our tables fell off or spilled!

Em

[Silver_Shiney]

You should have "spilled" it over them, Em!

[Boris+]

Alan - they were a bit 'preoccupied'!!!

Em

[Silver_Shiney]

Alan - they were a bit 'preoccupied'!!!

Em

exactly! Of course, if they'd completely spilled your drink, a loud voice announcing that there's a floor show in row xx should do the trick!

[jay-ell71]

Mile High Club!! I think I would prefer the tinies on board than witnessing a " quickie"!!!!!