Indefensible

[david63]

... or Palestine for starting the aggression in the first place 60+ years ago.

[Ray Scully]

... or Palestine for starting the aggression in the first place 60+ years ago.

David
Oh if it were only as simple as that.
Interesting read here http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-conflict

Ray

[towny44]

I think there is one point that everyone seems to have forgotten, and that is that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas at their last elections, even though they new them to be a terrorist organisation.

[Ray Scully]

I think there is one point that everyone seems to have forgotten, and that is that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas at their last elections, even though they new them to be a terrorist organisation.

John

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter !!

Ray

[Silver_Shiney]

was it "vote for us or else"?

[towny44]

I think there is one point that everyone seems to have forgotten, and that is that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas at their last elections, even though they knew them to be a terrorist organisation.

John

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter !!

Ray

Ray, If I remember correctly prior to the elections hadn't Israel withdrawn all its settlers from Gaza and opened the borders, granted in a somewhat limited way. Then the Palestinians repaid them by electing Hamas, you reap what you sow.

[Delboy]

I think what is indefensible is when the Terrorist organization Hamist, cynically is embedding its rocketeers, its rocket cashes, its tunnels - these terror tunnels in homes, in hospitals, in schools, then use their civilians as human shields, "So Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians"

As Benjamin Netanyahu explained, thats a double war crime, and therefore all civilian deaths as regrettable as they are fall on their shoulders.

Hamas, has it in their power to stop the war, stop firing thousands of rockets into Israel, but as Hamist is intent on destroying the State of Israel, something which Israel will never allow to happen, so the war will continue.

[sue-ol]

According to the Old Testament Book of Numbers around three and a half thousand years ago the Jews settled and they planted their fields and overnight the people of Gaza came and destroyed every thing, the conflict is not new! A way of peace needs to be found but sadly as has been said Hamas will not rest until they have destroyed Israel, Israel will not let that happen.

[Quizzical Bob]

According to the Old Testament Book of Numbers around three and a half thousand years ago the Jews settled and they planted their fields and overnight the people of Gaza came and destroyed every thing, the conflict is not new! A way of peace needs to be found but sadly as has been said Hamas will not rest until they have destroyed Israel, Israel will not let that happen.

But did you read the version that the other side wrote?

[sue-ol]

OK Quizzical Bob, no I haven't read what the other side wrote! That is a point though twosides to a story for consideration, then and now.
I don't . by the way, condone the Israeli bombing of places of refuge!

[Quizzical Bob]

OK Quizzical Bob, no I haven't read what the other side wrote! That is a point though twosides to a story for consideration, then and now.
I don't . by the way, condone the Israeli bombing of places of refuge!

I wasn't really trying to be flippant, just reminding us that history is written by the winners.

As for the current situation in Gaza, I really can't see an end to the violence in the short term, but I do know that lobbing shells into the middle of a civilian area is never, ever going to solve anything. This conflict is not going to have a military resolution.

[Boris+]

Lobbing shells - and therein is part of my concern. Palestinians may be lobbing shells, but the Israelis have exceptionally accurate weapons - state of the art. QED, whilst I think it is wrong for anyone to lobby shells and vaguely hope that they are going to hit something, it is completely unacceptable for someone to fire weapons which have very accurate missile guidance, and then aim them at civilian areas.

Em

[Silver_Shiney]

I fully agree with you, Em, but do we know for certain that the Israelis are targetting known, populated civilian targets for the hell of it? They've always made a point of stating where they are going to strike and telling the occupants to evacuate. However, as I've said before, might it be the case that Hamas won't let the civilians leave, in order that they can claim "Israeli atrocities"? No self-respecting terrorist gives a damn about collateral damage, especially if it can paint the other guy as the villain of the piece. How many innocent Muslims died in 9/11 or 7/7? How many Roman Catholics were killed or maimed by IRA bombs? If the Israelis had reliable, hard intel that a terrorist was in that location, then a lot of the blame should be placed on that terrorist for using the civilians as a shield - especially if they were not allowed to heed the warning to evacuate.

Also, it doesn't matter how accurate a weapon is - if human error programmes it incorrectly, it will just go where it is told. We all make mistakes, and in the heat of war, sometimes these mistakes have extremely tragic consequences.

If a military commander in Israel decided to knowingly target innocent people, where it was known there were no terrorists hiding, then he deserves to be hung out to dry. However, until I know precisely what the circumstances behind each operation were (and I never will), I will try not to be too hasty in passing judgement.

[Quizzical Bob]

Photos of a bomb dropping:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... lding.html

[Boris+]

Hi Alan,

You make a very good point. I just wish it would stop - and that the blockade preventing supplies of food etc be lifted.

If only wishing could make it happen.

Em

[Ray Scully]

Kudos to Baroness Warsi, she could no longer defend the indefensible.
I really worry what effect our Governments approach will have on UK community relations. I do fear how much the rich and powerful are again influencing Government policy.

Ray

[Dark Knight]

Raymondo
I would argue it is a weak and ineffective gesture, akin to taking one's ball home, when you didn't get picked for the school team
it is high time this country stopped sticking it's nose in other people's affairs and concentrated on our own issues
public condemnation is right and proper, but to think a tiny island nation can actually do anything to resolve this issue is arrogance beyond belief
this, like anything to do with the middle east, is the West trying to impose it's own version of democracy and liberal western views on other nations, who obviously don't give a dam , what we think or believe and to think we , the west, can change centuries of religion and local politics, by waving our hands about and tutting, is stupid, crass and egocentric
As usual ,the residents of this little island forget how much harm and devastation the British empire has caused across the world and we now think we have the right to tell others how to behave
our hands are covered in blood across the centuries , so please don't lets preach to other nations on how to behave

[Ray Scully]

Raymondo

it is high time this country stopped sticking it's nose in other people's affairs and concentrated on our own issues

:

DN

Would this include arming the Israelis ?

Ray

[Dark Knight]

of course
but we are too scared to do anything, lest we upset the big boys like America and Russia etc