Christening....????

[suespud]

Didn't want to use Boris's thread about this so I started a new one.
I wondered what other people think about this.

I was brought up a Catholic and was taught that babies needed to be Baptised to "free them from Original sin"and to Welcome them into the church.
My faith was wavering when I had my children, but I felt
under pressure to have my eldest and middle child baptised. But I stood firm on my third child and he was not baptised.
I am not a practicing Catholic, nor did I bring my children up in the faith.
( I do believe but still don't pratcice)


Theses days I'm appalled that some people give donations (large sums of money) to the church of their choice so their child can be baptised without practicing a faith.

Parents have photographs taken standing at the font...knowing full well that they won't ever visit the church again!!!

Why?????
Totally hypercritical IMO.

Of course a lot of it has to do with school preference...if you want your child in a catholic school your child has to be baptised....Hmmmmmmm

[Andrea S]

This isn't something I have heard of for a Christening and I find it quite appalling.

I see your point with regard to entry into a particular school but from what I know of Catholic schools the children are taught by nuns and Religion is a key part to their education so why not have them baptised and later on confirmed.

Perhaps like a 'posh' church wedding the dressing up and party afterwards is more important to them.

[suespud]

This isn't something I have heard of for a Christening and I find it quite appalling.

I see your point with regard to entry into a particular school but from what I know of Catholic schools the children are taught by nuns and Religion is a key part to their education so why not have them baptised and later on confirmed.

Perhaps like a 'posh' church wedding the dressing up and party afterwards is more important to them.

Andrea I meant, parents get them baptised, just to get them into catholic schools as they often have the best Ofsted reports, but have no intention of bringing them up as Catholics.
The children go through the motions but parents have no interest, nor do they practice.
I just find it all so false.
I have friends who have done this..I'm ashamed to say.



There are no nuns teaching in our local catholic schools.

[suespud]

This isn't something I have heard of for a Christening and I find it quite appalling.

I see your point with regard to entry into a particular school but from what I know of Catholic schools the children are taught by nuns and Religion is a key part to their education so why not have them baptised and later on confirmed.

Perhaps like a 'posh' church wedding the dressing up and party afterwards is more important to them.

I also agree I think it's about a " posh" church christening...then a "posh" venue afterwards..for a party.
Nothing wrong with celebrating the birth of a child...but I find it very false if parents use the church, especially if not religious at all.


We had our christening party in our homes.

[Andrea S]

Sue, My friends children and now grandchildren went at a very early age to a very good Catholic infant / junior school which helped them get a place in a Catholic senior school which has a very good academic reputation.

As it is very difficult to get in to as siblings get priority it may well happen here.

I personally know people who have moved house to make sure they are in the right catchment area so I guess people will use any means available to them.

[suespud]

Sue, My friends children and now grandchildren went at a very early age to a very good Catholic infant / junior school which helped them get a place in a Catholic senior school which has a very good academic reputation.

As it is very difficult to get in to as siblings get priority it may well happen here.

I personally know people who have moved house to make sure they are in the right catchment area so I guess people will use any means available to them.

Hi Andrea, I was Chair of Governors at a primary school for years ( also was a governor at the comp) so I know what people do to get places in favoured schools and the lengths they go to.

But I feel to pretend a child will be brought up in a faith, just to get a place in a school is wrong.

[Meg 50]

I'm C of E, but it's a problem there too.
re school places:
When I ran the Sunday school, we could always tell which children would suddenly disappear the Sunday after the school place letters went out - never to be seen again (cos they didn't get in - if they got in, they'd be back at the start of year 6 ready for the secondary school forms).
My fave was a parent who strolled in and asked if their child could come to SS and whose next sentence was 'you've no vicar, who do I get to sign the forms?'

re baptisms - our church operates an open door policy re baptism ( which means we get the rejects from neighbouring parishes who don't ( which is actually illegal in the C of E - churches are obliged to baptise any candidate who lives within the parish) .

Anyway, we used to have these services during the main Sunday morning service , but the quantity of baptisms became too great and the behaviour of many of the guests was an enormous problem. So we have moved the bulk to a Sunday afternoon. I am in charge of the stewards and go to quite a lot of these services.

Some are clearly a deeply meaningful and spiritual experience for all,
others it is clear they are only going through the motions and really want the priest to get a move on so they can go and get plastered...

[Meg 50]

My fave bad behaviour story came from the RC church up the road - it was a first communion service ( which apparently go on a bit) and one of the congregation was seen to nip out and over the road to the local tesco , returning with a batch of ice lollies which he passed along the row to his cohort of guests!

[Meg 50]

As it is very difficult to get in to as siblings get priority it may well happen here.

SD's Godfather was head teacher of a sought after C of E Primary school and he used to regale us with interview stories:

GF: Has your child been baptised?
Parent: No, but we'll get 'im done if it'll help


He was cross that a family would go through all the hoops to get their eldest child in and umpteen years later child 7 was being enrolled... so he changed the admission criteria to state that they had to prove church allegiance for each successive child. The vicar was delighted cos it kept his church full!


My children's secondary school (C of E) changed their criteria to say they'd accept siblings if the first child had arrived in year 7 and the family still qualified. Until then each sibling had to qualify in their own right

[Boris+]

Hi Sue,

I can see your point of view, and as per normal - that's fine my me. Each to their own. I have a sneaky suspicion that our little event was all done in church in order to please a small number of people; I would have preferred a naming ceremony.

I don't like people moving to a specific area in order to have access to a particular educational facility, and similarly I don't like people adopting a religion for the same purpose.

Oh well, our little event is over and done with now; schooling doesn't enter the situation - and everyone is pleased and happy with how it went.

So, I agree with you - all this pretending in order to get a school place is as wrong as an adult baking a cake for the annual village show and entering it as if a child had baked it. I could easily be very wrong, but in my book a person is what a person is, and no amount of pretending will do much good.

Em

[suespud]

Hi Sue,

I can see your point of view, and as per normal - that's fine my me. Each to their own. I have a sneaky suspicion that our little event was all done in church in order to please a small number of people; I would have preferred a naming ceremony.

I don't like people moving to a specific area in order to have access to a particular educational facility, and similarly I don't like people adopting a religion for the same purpose.

Oh well, our little event is over and done with now; schooling doesn't enter the situation - and everyone is pleased and happy with how it went.

So, I agree with you - all this pretending in order to get a school place is as wrong as an adult baking a cake for the annual village show and entering it as if a child had baked it. I could easily be very wrong, but in my book a person is what a person is, and no amount of pretending will do much good.

Em

I don't have a problem if a family move into an area for a better education.
That's a huge family commitment, nothing false or dishonest about it. IMO.
Bit different from pretending to have a faith....That's no example to set a child.

[Boris+]

Hi Sue,

Maybe I put it wrongly (nothing new there!) - regarding people moving to an area just because of the schooling - it could so easily be a bad move if they don't settle in or fit in; and that's not going to help anyone, is it? When people do that sort of move for the sake of 'appearances' etc, it rankles a bit, that's all. At the end of the day, instead of all the upheaval and cost why don't they just pay for schooling - simples. That way, they are still comfortable in their home, in an area/environment they know, with people they know (and that's worth it's weight in gold), with a mortgage that's affordable etc. If needs be they can always simply ditch the school fees, but still have their original home. If people move somewhere because of a school they could run into all sorts of problems, and be 'johnny newcomer/johnny nomates', unhappy and with mortgage worries too - that leads to an unhappy home, and I don't believe that a child can thrive in an unhappy home.

The religion bit - I think we're on the same page with that one.

Anyway, have a nice weekend.

Em

[suespud]

Hi Sue,

Maybe I put it wrongly (nothing new there!) - regarding people moving to an area just because of the schooling - it could so easily be a bad move if they don't settle in or fit in; and that's not going to help anyone, is it? When people do that sort of move for the sake of 'appearances' etc, it rankles a bit, that's all. At the end of the day, instead of all the upheaval and cost why don't they just pay for schooling - simples. That way, they are still comfortable in their home, in an area/environment they know, with people they know (and that's worth it's weight in gold), with a mortgage that's affordable etc. If needs be they can always simply ditch the school fees, but still have their original home. If people move somewhere because of a school they could run into all sorts of problems, and be 'johnny newcomer/johnny nomates', unhappy and with mortgage worries too - that leads to an unhappy home, and I don't believe that a child can thrive in an unhappy home.

The religion bit - I think we're on the same page with that one.

Anyway, have a nice weekend.

Em

Flipping heck Boris...... I think you have over thought this one....
I thought you were in the "half a glass full" frame of mind.
It doesn't have to be fraught with problems..
You have missed a couple of obvious ones though.

Maybe they don't want their child in private education....
Maybe they would move before their child started school....

[Boris+]

Hi Sue,

Still in glass more than half full mode - going back to playing with new camera.

Keep on with your festive cooking - sounds wonderful.

Em

[Dancing Queen]

Well I can't really comment as I don't have children ohh and I'm also a bit of a heathen tend to only go to church for christenings, weddings and funerals although I must say the first two I normally find a very enjoyable experience and promise myself I will go to church but then I fall by the wayside again

I can relate to people who attempt to pass themselves off as someone they are not though .. I've come across a few of those in my time

Sorry to go off topic but as it is cruise connected I'm sure I will be forgiven, many years ago we met a couple who never shut up about their big house, their business, their cars etc and yet both looked as if they were dressed by Man (woman) at C&A, someone once said to me .. look at the feet - what's on them will tell you an awful lot about that person, I've always remembered that and guess what it does !!!

[Silver_Shiney]

Christening is a man-made concept - it's not in the Bible. Baptism is a command for believers, not little children who do not understand what is happening. To say that "christening" or "baptising" a child gives it church membership, or makes it a Christian, is false teaching.

We dedicated our three and they chose to be baptised in their teens once they'd become Christians.

To have the ceremony performed to enable school admittance or anything else is, as has been said already, hypocrisy.

[Boris+]

Hi Alan,

That's sort of what I think - however, our little granddaughter was 'christened' - but we'll be content with what she decides when she's older and able to make an informed decision.

Meanwhile, there's a photo of herself (and her cake etc) which I managed to put on the image gallery.

Em

[suespud]

Christening is a man-made concept - it's not in the Bible. Baptism is a command for believers, not little children who do not understand what is happening. To say that "christening" or "baptising" a child gives it church membership, or makes it a Christian, is false teaching.

We dedicated our three and they chose to be baptised in their teens once they'd become Christians.

To have the ceremony performed to enable school admittance or anything else is, as has been said already, hypocrisy.

Alan, it might well be a man-made concept, or false teaching, but that is the way ( still are???) Catholics were taught.

I'm all for giving the child choice when they are older though.
Still don't agree with using the church for " naming" a baby, if the parents have no intention of bringing the child up in a faith.

[Silver_Shiney]

Christening is a man-made concept - it's not in the Bible. Baptism is a command for believers, not little children who do not understand what is happening. To say that "christening" or "baptising" a child gives it church membership, or makes it a Christian, is false teaching.

We dedicated our three and they chose to be baptised in their teens once they'd become Christians.

To have the ceremony performed to enable school admittance or anything else is, as has been said already, hypocrisy.

Alan, it might well be a man-made concept, or false teaching, but that is the way ( still are???) Catholics were taught.

I'm all for giving the child choice when they are older though.
Still don't agree with using the church for " naming" a baby, if the parents have no intention of bringing the child up in a faith.

I don't doubt you for a second, Sue, I'm just saying it has no basis in scripture.

[Andrea S]

Perhaps our beliefs come from our Parents.

I was brought up to believe a baby was Christened at a young age to ensure they would be received in to the Church if something dreadful happened to them.

Sunday school and Confirmation lessons followed but it was a personal decision on whether to go ahead with the Confirmation.

[Quizzical Bob]

Perhaps our beliefs come from our Parents.

I was brought up to believe a baby was Christened at a young age to ensure they would be received in to the Church if something dreadful happened to them.

Sunday school and Confirmation lessons followed but it was a personal decision on whether to go ahead with the Confirmation.

If you weren't baptised then you wouldn't receive a burial service. In Victorian times 'half-baptisms' were often performed if a newborn was not expected to survive with a full baptism following later if they did.

[wolfie]

Hi Sue,

I can see your point of view, and as per normal - that's fine my me. Each to their own. I have a sneaky suspicion that our little event was all done in church in order to please a small number of people; I would have preferred a naming ceremony.

I don't like people moving to a specific area in order to have access to a particular educational facility, and similarly I don't like people adopting a religion for the same purpose.

Oh well, our little event is over and done with now; schooling doesn't enter the situation - and everyone is pleased and happy with how it went.

So, I agree with you - all this pretending in order to get a school place is as wrong as an adult baking a cake for the annual village show and entering it as if a child had baked it. I could easily be very wrong, but in my book a person is what a person is, and no amount of pretending will do much good.

Em

Do they conduct those for babies now as well as ships?? I must keep up with the times.............they are a changin'!

[Meg 50]

In Victorian times 'half-baptisms' were often performed if a newborn was not expected to survive with a full baptism following later if they did.

Victorian times ?
No, it still happens - though less often, in fact I had one.

It is followed by a receiving into the church ceremony once the baby is better. I had an emergency baptism at 5½weeks, and finished the job when I was 4

[Meg 50]

Hi Sue,

I can see your point of view, and as per normal - that's fine my me. Each to their own. I have a sneaky suspicion that our little event was all done in church in order to please a small number of people; I would have preferred a naming ceremony.

I don't like people moving to a specific area in order to have access to a particular educational facility, and similarly I don't like people adopting a religion for the same purpose.

Oh well, our little event is over and done with now; schooling doesn't enter the situation - and everyone is pleased and happy with how it went.

So, I agree with you - all this pretending in order to get a school place is as wrong as an adult baking a cake for the annual village show and entering it as if a child had baked it. I could easily be very wrong, but in my book a person is what a person is, and no amount of pretending will do much good.

Em

Do they conduct those for babies now as well as ships?? I must keep up with the times.............they are a changin'!

yup they still are offered.
A sensible move for those who would prefer the child to make their own mind up later. One of JD's friends had one for her child. They attend a C of E church because the like the style of churchmanship at that particular church, but mummy was brought up Baptist and therefore is used to adult baptism and daddy a RC. This was the compromise

https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer- ... child.aspx

[Quizzical Bob]

A naming ceremony for a child! Do they smash a bottle if champagne on its head?