Hiding mistakes a criminal offence

[Kendhni]

Interesting story on the BBC site
"NHS staff should face prosecution if they are not open and honest about mistakes, according to a public inquiry into failings at Stafford Hospital."


Having seen an NHS 'cover up' in full swing I can see the point. In our case they operated on Julie without giving her any anaesthetic (the doctor even told her to stop being a 'baby' as she screamed in pain) ... nurses, doctors and admin all closed up ranks and became very patronising. Naturally we got nowhere ... but have since learned, from one of the nurses, that the staff knew they were at fault (but would not admit it).

However, I am not convinced an environment of whistle blowing and buck passing would be good for the NHS. Too many people looking over their shoulders and becoming too scared to take responsibility.

[paultheeagle]

What an awful thing to happen...Poor Julie...I cannot imagine how she must have felt...I bet all her trust in hospitals has been destroyed.

There seems to be cover ups all over the place, not just in the NHS...It's always somebody elses fault.

Heard on the radio the big debate surrounding the NHS at the moment is about Care....Nurses simply do not have the time to care anymore...Something I would have thought was vitally important and essential in getting someone better.....Morale in our hospital wards is at an all time low, with doctors working ridiculous hours and nursing managers more concerned with League Tables and Targets than actually looking after people...Medalling politicians again.

All this means the medical staff are bound to make mistakes...don't make it right though, There is no excuse for cover ups..I think fair minded people would accept that mistakes do happen, I just wish they would admit their errors when they happen.

[The Invigilator]

Ken, what a dreadful experience for poor Julie, absolutely disgusting hope she is OK.

[Boris+]

I think what annoys me is that people who work in the NHS may make mistakes or simply not do certain functions/chores - but there is always a notice on the wall saying that nobody is allowed to have a go about it because such criticism might just be deemed to be abusive or offensive.

I know that there are people who do work in the NHS and who are absolute stars - but I just don't understand why some of the workers should be allowed to get away with either not doing their job or doing their job very very poorly.

Em

[Mo2013]

I had a terrible experience with my late mother and had several meetings between the Sister and Consultant about the standard of care she was receiving. The consultant actually said that my complaints were demoralising for the staff. I was outraged. Were there no problems I said, then I would have nothing to discuss with him. They are useless but don't want to hear any criticism! Mum could not reach her call button, and was unable to reach her drink. I asked the Sister if I should go home and produce a sign to stick on the wall reminding staff to leave her call button on the bed and make sure that she could reach her drink. The next time I visited I was gobsmacked to see that there was indeed a sign which had been stuck on the wall which the Sister had made. I could not believe that staff did not have the nous to do the most basic and sensible of things. One of the times I visited Mum she had a needle in her hand and they'd taped it in such a way that every time she reached for the drink, the contraption was pushing the beaker away and she couldn't use her other hand because she'd had a stroke. I nearly had a fit and jumped up to take issue with some temporary agency nurse but my daughter ran after me to stop me. This agency nurse must have been as thick as a brick but I found that all too often staff just don't THINK. There is no excuse. I was horrified too to learn that the consultant who had left whilst she was in hospital had written on her notes 'DNR' - Do Not Resuscitate. I went ballistic and asked if they thought they were God ! Mum ended up worse than she was when she was admitted and she was never the same. I still get upset every time I think about it.

[suespud]

My mother was wrongly diagnosed with IBS. She in fact had Pancreatic cancer. It was only discovered because we went private and paid for a scan. She was stage four at this time and given six weeks to live.
The Consultant knew she had made a mistake,apologised and said even if it had been found earlier, because of my mams artificial heart valve and heart problems, an operation wouldnt have been feasable.

I argued maybe not, but at least they might have got her pain under control a lot earlier !!!

The consultant also send a sympathy card and rang me up a few times.
She was scared, very scared that we were going to take it further.
We had a meeting with the powers that be, and were told that it would be investigated.

We thought long and hard, but took no further action.

A couple of months later we got a letter to say she had left the hospital.




My MIL was being treat by her GP for "old age" or maybe a ministroke, were his words...when she couldnt speak.

She went to to the doctors, her own GP was on holiday, a young locum was there, told her she had advanced MND, she died 3 weeks later of MND.

[Kendhni]

Julie is fine, that 9incident happened in 1994. I should add Julie used to work for the NHS and even she could not get them to break ranks.

I should add that generally I believe the front line staff in the NHS do a great job, but are being snowed in with irrelevant and unnecessary paperwork. Last time I was admitted it saddened me to see 2 highly qualified nurses sitting behind desks all day doing paperwork ... this allowed the hospital to include them in the stats of the number of nurses on the ward, enven though they did not do any 'nursing'

[The Invigilator]

Glad Julie is OK Ken.

Mo2013 and Suespud, so sorry to read about your awful experiences just dreadful. We have experienced both sides firstly My mother was in hospital a few months ago and to be fair does not make a good patient. But the care and attention she received was absolutely outstanding. They looked after her so well and kept the family upto date with everything. Thankfully she is fit and well again. On the flip side my OH had a fall and broke both arms very close to our local walkin centre. I got him in the car got him there, rushed inside and asked for help and was told by the receptionist that they were not allowed to help. I got him in and unusually he was the only one there the staff were happily chatting and drinking tea, as this point OH was as white as a sheet and shaking visibly. They left him for 15 minutes despite me making regular requests for attention. Eventually he was seen to be told that it was obviously a break however their X-ray closed 10 minutes ago and I would have to drive him 10 miles to our A&E hospital I was denied an ambulance they gave me some paperwork to be handed in on arrival. However when we got there they had put paperwork in the envelope for a completely different person! It was at this point OH collapsed and was rushed through. From that point treatment was amazing he was taken to theatre and some hours later I found out that he had a simple break of his left hand but the wrist in his right had to be plated and screwed. He remained in hospital for a couple of days, and his treatment there was great however they launched an investigation against the walk in centre and I also lodged a complaint which sad to say was hushed up and forgotten about.

[Mo2013]

Good Lord, so sorry to read of people's horrendous experiences. I remember the Sister telling me at the time she was doing paperwork practically all the time, so frustrating, because I remember a time when hospitals were more efficient and much better run. How awful to see it go so wrong. I'm afraid David Cameron's apology is not enough.

[lioness]

This is very minor compared to what I have read above, but I have just had a colonoscopy. I experienced agonizing pain throughout the procedure, and although they administered sedation (? what a joke) it made no difference. I was in agony until it was over.

I put my experiences on Patientonline and today I received an apology from the doctor who did the procedure. I am a great believer in the NHS, but I am losing heart. It cannot be necessary to experience this level of pain in this day and age.

[Mo2013]

Lioness, please don't give your own experience a lesser value, it must have been truly awful for you, and, as you say, surely in this day and age, no-one needs to be in pain during a procedure.

[Silver_Shiney]

My mum has been in and out of hospital more times than I've had hot dinners. Usually, the treatment she has had has been splendid, however on one occasion, when she was in for a major operation, she was wheeled through to the pre-med room and she announced that she needed to go to the loo. At this point, she hadn't been given any form of sedation, and the anaethetist hadn't arrived. The khazi was just across the corridor. She wasn't allowed to go and, instead, the nurse told her to pee in her pants. Mum argued for a couple of minutes but the nurse insisted. So in the end......


When she got back to the ward after the op, the ward staff came to check on her and noticed the bed was soaking wet. They were horrified and said they would complain, but nothing came of it.

My sister and I lodged a formal complaint and we were told that my mum's recollection was faulty, as she was under the influence of the (yet to be administered) sedation.

Mum didn't want us to press the matter.

When we used to visit her (on another occasion - she often jokes about having a plaque above the bed saying "reserved for...."), my sister, who is a Sister, would always go to the ward cleaning station to get disinfectant etc to clean the crap that was around mum's bed - cleaning was not high on that hospital's agenda.

Her GP was on holiday one year and the local prescribed a particular pill. Mum said that she must not have that as it had very serious side effects on a previous occasion. He insisted that she take it. When my sister visited, she watched mum starting to go downhill as a result of these pills prescribed two days earlier and called an ambulance. The paramedics said that, for 10 minutes, they thought they'd lost her. It's now on her notes in large red letters "DO NOT PRESCRIBE...."

It's no better in the US either. My son's FIL had a cancerous kidney removed last year. On a check up a few weeks later, they diagnosed spots in his lung and implanted gold "seeds" that they would irradiate. They put them in the wrong place. They completed the treatment and announced he was in the clear. Still in pain, he went back. The results shocked us all. He's got Stage IV cancer in the lungs and the chest cavity - two years to sort himself out. Last Saturday, emergency surgery to remove two feet of intestine and another tumour.

Sorry to go on - just wanted to sound off in a safe environment in the company of friends.

[The Invigilator]

Oh my goodness silver shiney absolutely no need to apologise, I just feel so sorry for your family having to go through such awful experiences.

[wolfie]

Some of you will know of the indignity and lack of care, let alone the mismanagement of medication, that my OH received during a 3 week stay in hospital around 18 months ago whilst having undergone a major operation.

I did not make a fuss at the time because I was so concerned that their care would be even further compromised by doing so. Some of the indignities they suffered are too painful and personal to recount.

Some time later, and as a result of a conversation with a senior officer of the charity that we support, we were put in touch with the,'patient experience facilitator' at the hospital.We were both interviewed, on tape, at home, and related our experiences. She was appalled and had more people to see due to the same problems that they had experienced.

Just a few months ago we met the same officer of the charity who informed us that the tape that we had contributed to had actually been used in nurse training sessions. We can only hope that it has had some impact to improve matters of dignity and care.

However, we now both dread ever having to be an inpatient.

Additionally my mother had a DNR put on her notes without any consulation with the family and my father was, IMO, given such a high dose of morphine, even though he was not in great pain, or any pain as far as told us, which hastened or contributed to his death........... but he was 82 so I suppose that they thought it a burden on the NHS to keep a previoulsy active and fit eldery man alive for any longer.

[Mo2013]

I have thought that at times hospitals 'allow' people to die. Certainly I was shocked that my mum's notes said DNR. I would not want anyone to suffer if keeping them alive at all costs prolonged their agony, but she was worth resuscitating. It is clear that errors and lack of care is very widespread and I hope that the NHS sees a turnaround in standards. Silver Shiney - there is no need to be sorry for telling us your story.

[Silver_Shiney]

Thanks, guys

[lioness]

Goodness it gets worse the more you hear.

4 years ago, I paid privately for surgery on my back, otherwise I would have waited too long. Surgery was fine and quick and nursing care was good as I came out of anaethesia.

About 3 hours later, I rang my bell to ask if I could go for a wee. Male nurse asked me to wait until he found another nurse to help as i was still attached to a saline drip.

an hour later, they arrived to help me. Surprised I hadn't pee'd the bed So private is not much better.

[Kendhni]

Due to the NHS continually failing to meet their targets Julie has been referred to a private clinic ... what a difference.
She needed an MRI scan ... private appointment within 1 week ... or umpteen month waiting list on NHS (although curiously she could have had it within 1 week if we paid the blackmail fees)
She then had to see a consultant to read the scan .... private appointment 1 hour after MRI ... NHS 4-6 week wait followed by another few weeks to get appointment to see consultant (although that can be greatly reduced by letting little brown envelopes swap hands).
Follow on appointment ... private we will soon find out ... NHS lucky to get one 6 months later

The downside is that it takes about 2.5-3 hours for me to drive to the clinic and the same back ... so it is a long journey (although they refund my petrol costs). Notonly that talk about plush wards and facilities.

[Debbie W]

Due to the NHS continually failing to meet their targets Julie has been referred to a private clinic ... what a difference.
She needed an MRI scan ... private appointment within 1 week ... or umpteen month waiting list on NHS (although curiously she could have had it within 1 week if we paid the blackmail fees)
She then had to see a consultant to read the scan .... private appointment 1 hour after MRI ... NHS 4-6 week wait followed by another few weeks to get appointment to see consultant (although that can be greatly reduced by letting little brown envelopes swap hands).
Follow on appointment ... private we will soon find out ... NHS lucky to get one 6 months later

The downside is that it takes about 2.5-3 hours for me to drive to the clinic and the same back ... so it is a long journey (although they refund my petrol costs). Notonly that talk about plush wards and facilities.

Is this being paid for privately Ken or by the NHS?

[Kendhni]

By the NHS, Debs .. it's ridiculous .. and as I said, not only do they pay for that but they also reimburse me for travel expenses and lunch ... and because of some of the treatments Julie may have to go through they will pay for a hotel for me if I have to stay down there. The only thing I don't get reimbursed for is my time.

[Debbie W]

It's called patient choice Ken. If the NHS can't provide treatment within the appropriate timescale then private hospital is offered as an alternative. A pretty good deal in my opinion, but obviously doesn't fit with the general theme of the thread which is that the NHS is cr*p

[Kendhni]

It's called patient choice Ken. If the NHS can't provide treatment within the appropriate timescale then private hospital is offered as an alternative. A pretty good deal in my opinion, but obviously doesn't fit with the general theme of the thread which is that the NHS is cr*p

I am not complaining about the treatment, it is fantastic ... while iI have no idea of what it is costing I just assume that the cost to the NHS must be ridiculous.

BTW, the NHS is not cr*p, it is just being buried in silly amounts of paperwork to keep back office staff in jobs ... sadly it is front end staff that is expected to tdo much of that paperwork which is hitting front end services.

[Debbie W]

Ken

I know better than most on this forum that the NHS isn't cr*p, given that I work in the service (and very proud to as well!) and have done for some time now.

There's a lot I could say but discretion is the better part of valour so will bow out now.

[Mo2013]

Using a blanket phrase 'the NHS is crap' is not quite right but the thread was about hiding mistakes that happen. I needed a bowel examination and had the choice of being referred to a BMI hospital which I took. It was good, my own room, but unfortunately during the discharge process there was some confusion. Thereafter it became clear that I and another patient had been mixed up, I was led to understand that I needed further investigations, but it was actually the other person who required further tests. Not only was I alarmed for nothing, but the other person still needed to be told that they needed further procedures to be carried out. Mistakes do happen in the NHS, but please be honest about them and above all, learn from them.

[Ginaberlosconi]

Okay... our NHS is not perfect, but (then again) what's the alternative?

Do we abolish our National Health Service and pay for our treatment through some sort of insurance? There would be lots of "losers" if this scenario were to be adopted - and this goes against all the NHS stands for.

Compared to the rest of the world... our Health Service isn't that bad. Think about it... !