Multinational Big Business ripping us all off ???

[Ray Scully]

Starbucks Amazon, Google and their ilk. Are these companies being good for the country because they are providing jobs?

Little mention is made of their tax payer subsidised wage bills. Most of the jobs are part time minimum wage positions, the workers then receive tax credits and DWP payments to make their earnings up to a living wage.

Many large companies, not only avoid their taxes, they enjoy greater profits with their subsidised wage bill, whilst at the same time damaging home grown businesses who pay their taxes. I used to be a prolific purchaser on Amazon; now there has to be a massive price saving for me to consider them

Ray

[barney]

It's about time more people woke and a smelled to coffee Ray.

I've been banging on about this for years.

It's a disgrace that the taxpayer subsidises large companies wage bills to the amount we do.

They pay the rock bottom minimum that the law allows, safe in the knowledge that the tax payer will pick up the slack in 'work place benefits'

And then, as if that's not enough, they continue to fiddle the tax system.

Scrap the minimum wage for a start.
At it's inception it was supposed to be A minimum wage not THE minimum wage.
Introduce a living wage that allows people to work full time without the need for benefits of any kind.

I was talking about this with a chap I know who has a local KFC franchise and is absolutely minted.
He said that by raising the minimum wage, he would need to reduce his staff.
So, I asked him how many staff he was carrying at the moment who were not fully utilised.
None, he replied.
So how would paying a bit more make you reduce staff if you currently employ only what you need, I asked.

ERRR, was the answer. But it would cut into my profits he said.
So you'd make a bit less profit I said, but you staff would be better off.

ERRR, no they wouldn't he said, because they'd lose loads of benefits.
So, I'm subsidising your wage bill, I said.

ERRR, yeah, looks like it, he said.

That's modern day Britain in a nutshell.

[oldbluefox]

All monies earned in Britain should be liable to tax whether that be profits, winnings or earnings.
There should also be a more equitable tax arrangement between those who are self employed and those on PAYE.

[david63]

There is nothing new in all of this - it has been going on, in various different guises, for many years.

Whilst I don't agree with the way things are it is not the companies' fault that the system is wrong and allows them to do what they do - after all they are not doing anything illegal (immoral maybe)

[Manoverboard]

I shop with Amazon if they are good value or the cheapest for the purchase that I require to make rather than because they pay Tax as I see fit or pay at or above the minimum wage level etc.

Tax Laws are not written by Companies, blame the Government / Inland Revenue ... plug the loopholes that have existed since Noah was a lad if a solution is really required, which it isn't of course as it helps keep the unemployment figures down.

[oldbluefox]

I don't think it's in the best personal interests of those in government to do anything to change tax laws. Too many of them have too much to lose. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas do they?

[Delboy]

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal, tax evation is not.

If governments of whatever colour were really interested in closing the legal loopholes of tax avoidance, they would have done so by now, but they have too much to loose to do so.

All this talk of Ed Miliband putting the tax havens on notice, is just election hype. People should judge Ed Miliband by his record, not his rhetoric. For 13 years - including when he was an adviser in the Treasury - Labour did absolutely nothing to tackle tax avoidance. Ed Miliband is simply too weak to deliver on what he promises.

The notion that tax avoidance is wrong is also a very questionable premise. Practically everyone in the UK who pays tax will, to some degree, take measures to legally avoid tax. Whether that be at the simple end by using ISA’s, claiming a myriad of expenses against taxable income( which everyone who is self-employed will do), transferring assets to family members to avoid income tax, or capital taxes, through to slightly more sophisticated schemes that larger corporations will use – the principle is the same. In a world where survival is about globalisation then where profits are earned, and therefore where tax is due becomes a moot point.

In a system that we all benefit from, which involves corporations generating shareholder value, there is no responsible board of directors who will willingly and consciously pay more tax than is necessary. This will supress dividend and share growth – and for anyone who is likely to depend on pensions, insurances etc then you will all wish for this to be maximised. It is disingenuous and somewhat naive if we deplore one half of the equation and enjoy the other half.

I am aware that some will say that it is a matter of degree – the impact of the “black economy” (tax evaders) is far greater than the impact of legal tax avoidance schemes. Additionally, companies that are managing their finances well and grow through sound business acumen, also employ large numbers of people.

Some of the above was googled to help explain my point of view. I use Amazon on a regular basis unless I can find somewhere else cheaper, have never found boycotting achieved much.

[Stephen]

Right or wrong, as David mentioned they're not doing anything illegal. The government will huff and puff and no doubt dangle it as an election carrot saying they will plug the loop holes if they get in power. But what they actually say and do once in power are often two different things.

I'm no business man, but I do wonder what is the point of trying to better yourself in this country when all you get is crucified with paying higher and higher taxes, just because you've done well for yourself through taking gambles and building up a business through years of hard work. It's no wonder companies will try and pay as little tax as possible, wouldn't you!

[Ray Scully]

Well with the HSBC disclosures today which are probably just the tip of a massive iceberg, and the Government attempting to buy votes with the issuing of pensioner bonds, I really fear for the state of OUR country.

[oldbluefox]

Interesting programme on Panorama last night. The arrogance of Lord Green and subsequent defence of him by David Cameron hints that a blind eye has been turned not only to manipulation of our tax laws but a blatant bending of them in order to evade tax. I presume Labour will try to make political gain out of it but they presided for 13 years and did nothing about it either.
I expect accountants and solicitors will be busy over the coming weeks.

[towny44]

Maybe the chancellor should just apply a 105% tax on all banks, law firms and accountants who provide tax evasion to their clients.

[Delboy]

Politicians will always play the blame game in order to try and make political gain.

In regards to HSBC this operation took place between 2005/2007, Labour had 3 terms in Power and did absolutely nothing about tax avoidance, so they cannot crow too loud. I certainly fear for the state of our country especially if Ed Milliplank is elected as PM. For me it will be one dipstick replaced by an even bigger dipstick.

As I understand it, the HSBC operation was also carried out by their private Swiss Bank.

HSBC has said "We acknowledge that the compliance culture and standards of due diligence in HSBC's Swiss private bank, as well as the industry in general, were significantly lower than they are today," it added.

The bank now faces criminal investigations in the US, France, Belgium and Argentina, but not in the UK, where HSBC is based.

The BBC learnt that HSBC helped wealthy clients evade hundreds of millions of pounds worth of tax.

Panorama has seen accounts from 106,000 clients in 203 countries, leaked by whistleblower Herve Falciani in 2007.

The documents include details of almost 7,000 clients based in the UK.

[Silver_Shiney]

I trust those documents will be passed to the appropriate authorities, so that arrears can be collected?

Oh look, a flying pig....

[Ray Scully]

Crooks in suits Its about the blatant corruption and fraud committed by banks ;-(

[towny44]

Crooks in suits Its about the blatant corruption and fraud committed by banks ;-(

Don't disagree with you Ray, but they were massively encouraged to be creative by new labour and their supposedly prudent chancellor and failed PM, good old Gordon.

[Silver_Shiney]

Would that be the same nice Mr Brown who sold off our gold reserves when the price was at its lowest?

[Delboy]

Would that be the same nice Mr Brown who sold off our gold reserves when the price was at its lowest?

The same Mr Brown who spent money we did not have, allowed people to borrow money they could not pay back. Remember Browns mantra WE HAVE ABOLISHED BOOM AND BUST. Remember we did not bail out the banks the government borrowed the money to give to the banks in exchange for shares. We were skint before the bank crisis and a bloody lot worse after.

[Silver_Shiney]

But this is what the world in general is doing - printing money to "buy" our way out of debt by creating even more debt, money which has nothing to back it up. China and Russia, on the other hand, have considerable stocks of gold to back up their currencies, which will become the main players, unlike the USD, which is about to collapse.