Holiday Property Bond

[oldbluefox]

Is it worth having?
The accommodation we have seen does look very inviting, of a high standard and with interest from savings being poor we have often thought about investing some money into one but what happens when you decide to withdraw from it?
Considering they have your money and then make all sorts of charges for admin, cleaning etc I sometimes wonder if I'm just as well off to go to a hotel.
However I am open to be convinced.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We invested in it years ago and have never regretted it.

You're spot on, the accommodation is of a high standard and importantly for us predictably so. We've stayed in some great non-bond holiday cottages over the years, but we've also had some disappointments.

If you're even considering it you should talk to the Bond directly. They don't employ pushy salesman and once you've heard about it if you decide "no" they don't hound you. They periodically have open days at the properties when you can have a nose round. Quite near you is Braithwaite, one of their oldest, and a little further away at Merlewood, just outside Grange-over-Sands, is the newest. If you visited both you'd see the range in the UK. Of course they are abroad too.

Financially, in a nutshell, when you invest a percentage of the money vanishes into set up and admin charges, much like any Life Assurance, on which it is a variation. The rest is invested, mainly in the properties, and your money buys you units which have a monetary value, which varies over time depending on the market, and if you want out in the future you can get out. The only stipulation is there may be a delay (up to 12 months I think it is) if your withdrawal involves disposal of any assets. But with new investors coming in all the time I'm not sure that ever happens. But the thing is you can get your money out, unlike most timeshares.

If you want to pass it on, as an investment and holiday opportunity, to your children you can include them as joint lives assured on the policy, or failing that it pays out cash on death.

Each year you get points to use to book holidays, based on your investment. There are also opportunities when properties are vacant at the last minute (28 days in the UK, 56 days abroad) to book them without using points, thus conserving your kitty, and there are also other points free deals from time to time. Once invested your points and therefore holiday entitlement is adjusted against inflation. So someone investing, say £10,000, next year, may not get the same entitlement as you, but whatever your investment will secure in holidays now it will do so forever.

There are a wide range of properties from studio apartments up to 4 bedroom cottages and villas and the sites have great facilities. It varies depending on the size of the site, but there are games rooms, swimming pools, tennis courts, bowling greens, putting greens and on site shops and restaurants on the bigger ones. They all have some sort of clubhouse area, and laundry rooms (never seen a fight in one though, so a bit different from cruising). The on-site management are excellent and have good local knowledge about places to go and things to do. The points charged for a property reflect its capital cost, so newer properties need more points, as do bigger ones. They also vary across the seasons.

Apart from the points, the other thing you pay when you book a property is a Non-Profit User Charge. This covers the cost of cleaning, maintenance, utilities etc, and it just does that, there is no profit added to it. No shareholders to pay out. The Bondholders own the properties. Hence the charge is lower than the charge for comparable private properties. The user charge varies with the size of the property but not the seasons. Once that's paid there's nothing else (unless you use the restaurant or shop) - no charges for electricity for example.

There is also a quarterly management charge, currently just under £30.

I can honestly say it's one of the best things we've ever done. Once the set up charges have gone you still have the rest of the money (subject to ups and downs of the market, but since we've been in it's been nowhere near as volatile as the stock market, for example)

If you're even remotely interested, have a look at it and get some more details from them. As I said before there really is no pressure. It sells itself, so they don't have to push reluctant customers. I think there's even a full money back offer if you don't like it after you've joined and tried a holiday or two.

If you do fancy it, send me a PM with your details. If I fill in a referral card they'll send you some bumph and me a small gift. Win win!

[oldbluefox]

Many thanks for your long and informative reply Mervyn.
We have been to the Braithwaite site and to Merlewood (which is lovely) so we had some idea of the standard of HPB but little notion of the practicalities or how the thing worked.
I have now ordered a brochure and bearing in mind the help you have given me, let me know whenever you are up in Braithwaite and I will be happy to come and see you and Trish and make sure you get a small gift from me (still or carbonated!!! ).

[GillD46]

Thanks for the post Mervyn. I'll await further info.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Many thanks for your long and informative reply Mervyn.
We have been to the Braithwaite site and to Merlewood (which is lovely) so we had some idea of the standard of HPB but little notion of the practicalities or how the thing worked.
I have now ordered a brochure and bearing in mind the help you have given me, let me know whenever you are up in Braithwaite and I will be happy to come and see you and Trish and make sure you get a small gift from me (still or carbonated!!! ).

We shall be there in September, so get 'em in!

[Stephen]

Many thanks for your long and informative reply Mervyn.
We have been to the Braithwaite site and to Merlewood (which is lovely) so we had some idea of the standard of HPB but little notion of the practicalities or how the thing worked.
I have now ordered a brochure and bearing in mind the help you have given me, let me know whenever you are up in Braithwaite and I will be happy to come and see you and Trish and make sure you get a small gift from me (still or carbonated!!! ).

Cheap skate. At least make it Minton

[Onelife]

Hi Mr Foxy

Holiday bonds (mumsnet) have quite a few reviews, most of which are positive....might be worth a peek.

Regards

Keith

[Mervyn and Trish]

Interesting Keith - and most of the few negative ones are based on inaccurate hearsay.

It's not for everyone, but I'd recommend anyone remotely interested to go along to one of their open days and get the facts. There's no high pressure selling. In fact before joining ourselves we went to an open day at the nearest site to us and didn't invest because it seemed to be too good to be true. They didn't chase us after. Then we visited a second site and found it just as good and took the plunge.

So far we've enjoyed holidays in Scotland (The Trossachs), Cumbria (two sites), Pembrokeshire, Anglesey, North Yorkshire (two sites), Norfolk, Cotswolds, Shropshire, Cornwall, Dorset, Kent, Mallorca, La Gomera and Madeira. We've got repeat holidays booked in Cumbria, Shropshire and the Cotswolds and are also going to Devon this summer and hopefully next year or the year after one of their three sites in France. And they're currently building at a new site in Northumbria and planning a new one in Scotland, as well as improving existing ones. The locations, by the way, are a mixture of new build and restorations of existing buildings, including a castle in Wales.

[Manoverboard]

The website for those with a pot of gold and an interest ...

http://www.hpb.co.uk/

ps ... one's chums parents were in the scheme for many years and loved it.

[Frank Manning]

Interesting thread. Having read that explanation, we might look into it ourselves. Do you have to take your own sheets and pillow cases?....I think we would anyway. Less than five weeks to go now 'Foxy' and we can commiserate on the peformance of our teams, and perhaps have a chat about HPB.

[daib GC]

Interesting Keith - and most of the few negative ones are based on inaccurate hearsay.

It's not for everyone, but I'd recommend anyone remotely interested to go along to one of their open days and get the facts. There's no high pressure selling. In fact before joining ourselves we went to an open day at the nearest site to us and didn't invest because it seemed to be too good to be true. They didn't chase us after. Then we visited a second site and found it just as good and took the plunge.

So far we've enjoyed holidays in Scotland (The Trossachs), Cumbria (two sites), Pembrokeshire, Anglesey, North Yorkshire (two sites), Norfolk, Cotswolds, Shropshire, Cornwall, Dorset, Kent, Mallorca, La Gomera and Madeira. We've got repeat holidays booked in Cumbria, Shropshire and the Cotswolds and are also going to Devon this summer and hopefully next year or the year after one of their three sites in France. And they're currently building at a new site in Northumbria and planning a new one in Scotland, as well as improving existing ones. The locations, by the way, are a mixture of new build and restorations of existing buildings, including a castle in Wales.

All this sounds wonderful but where do we fit it in to our 3 timeshare weeks, and 4/5 cruises a year. Like you we have had our money back many times over for the timeshares. We have had two of them for 25 and 22 years and used or swapped them every year. Happy Days.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I know what you mean Dai. As well as the HPB which gives us an average of three weeks a year we have four weeks timeshare, and we usually do 2 weeks cruising a year, occasionally more. We certainly couldn't have done it when we were working and restricted to five to six weeks holiday.

[CaroleF]

We have friends who have a bond and we went with them to the HPB property in Britanny and were very impressed both with the site and the standard of each invdividual property. I thought it might feel like a glorified Butlins but it was as far removed from that as it's possible to be. I've often thought maybe it's something we should consider - I'll have to bring it up in the conversation again! Thank you Mervyn for the very detailed description.

Carole

[oldbluefox]

Well, yesterday we went down to Merlewood, near Grange for their Open Day and we had a really good time. We had already received a big envelope with quality booklet, DVD and loads of information which had put us in the picture. However I still had a sheet full of questions to ask.
We were met at the door and had a tour of a number of apartments, from one bed through to some of the larger properties on site. In each one we were mightily impressed by the condition of the apartments (nothing tatty) and all the fixtures and fittings were of a very high standard. There was an ample supply of information with walks to do, attractions to see but if you just want to relax in the beautiful surroundings overlooking Morecambe Bay there was a library of books and DVDs plus indoor swimming pool, snooker and pool tables, fitness (torture) room, tennis court, crazy golf etc.
We then had a long chat with the HPB rep who gave a detailed presentation and advice. True, he was a salesman but there was very little pressure to buy. We never felt uncomfortable so it wasn't a hard sell. Actually the accommodation sells itself.
My impression? It's not cheap but quality products never are. It's certainly cheaper than private self-catering in beautiful parts of the country and you get the assurance that where you are going will be of a consistently high quality.
Result? We are going to see the rep at the Braithwaite complex tomorrow prepared to part with some money. We expect most of our holidays will be in UK but there are also loads of apartments abroad for those who like their holidays in the sun. Thanks Mervyn for your post. See you in Braithwaite!!

As an aside Braithwaite was their first property bond. At the time we felt it was morally wrong the way they bought up all the little cottages there, and one of the pubs, and literally took the village over. To some extent this still holds true today. However the policy seems to have changed and they seem to be buying up derelict properties such as large Victorian houses, castles, priories and then sympathetically renovating them to build up a complex.

[Onelife]

Good luck with your new venture Foxy


Regards

keith

[Mervyn and Trish]

Enjoy Foxy. I see what you're saying about Braithwaite, but I wonder if it would have survived as it has without HPB? Regular custom year round for the shop and other businesses must be a bonus.

[Manoverboard]

Do they happen to have free to use guest suites for chums of Bond Holders ?

Just a thought, no particular reason for asking

[GillD46]

Having been through all the bumf - thanks for that Mervyn - I think it probably isn't for us just now. We will probably go down the timeshare route again, perhaps in Malta. Later on, I can see it might suit us better, so never say never.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Do they happen to have free to use guest suites for chums of Bond Holders ?

Just a thought, no particular reason for asking

Chums? Who are you thinking of as chums?

[oldbluefox]

Do they happen to have free to use guest suites for chums of Bond Holders ?

Just a thought, no particular reason for asking

Depends whether we survive in the Prem!!!

[Andrea S]

Mervyn.
Your answer is very positive for someone who has the chance to get away frequently.If I was looking for advise I would trust your experience with Bonds.

We bought Timeshare before it became a dirty word. We have 2 weeks with the Anfi group in Gran Canaria and 2 weeks with Diamond Resorts at Sunset Harbour.
We have used our weeks to travel to USA, Canada, Caribbean, Spain, Majorca , Madeira and Cruised out of the USA.
By using them off peak we can get extra holidays and last year we exchangied our fixed weeks to points and managed 12 weeks holiday. This year we are having a family holiday in Tenetife and the points have paid for 2 apartments and the airfares.

Whilst I am wary of recommending Timeshare nowadays it works wonderful for us and like yourself there are always spare weeks for next to nothing. Between January and March we grab 4 weeks of extra holidays in the winter sun.
Bonds sound exactly the same outcome but possibly a much safer investment .

[Mervyn and Trish]

Andrea, I agree timeshare has become a dirty word, with some people having a dreadful experience, usually with escalating maintenance costs.

We have a timeshare too, as well as the HPB, with the Pestana group in Madeira. We bought with a little trepidation, but they do seem to be good. Our maintenance payment can only go up in line with Portugese inflation, and everything they promised has happened. The apartments and resort are well maintained and still look brand new.

I think one downside of timeshare can be that, if you get fed up with it, it can be hard to sell if no-one else wants to buy. Our are on a fixed length lease, 30 years in one case, 15 in the other, and at the end of that time we simply hand them back. So when we bought we did the sums on the basis that the original purchase price would be gone over that time.

HPB is a different sort of product, but that too has always lived up to our expectations. It's more flexible than our timeshare and does have a value we can get back at any time.

So we're very pleased with both.

[Raybosailor]

Mervyn.
Your answer is very positive for someone who has the chance to get away frequently.If I was looking for advise I would trust your experience with Bonds.

We bought Timeshare before it became a dirty word. We have 2 weeks with the Anfi group in Gran Canaria and 2 weeks with Diamond Resorts at Sunset Harbour.
We have used our weeks to travel to USA, Canada, Caribbean, Spain, Majorca , Madeira and Cruised out of the USA.
By using them off peak we can get extra holidays and last year we exchangied our fixed weeks to points and managed 12 weeks holiday. This year we are having a family holiday in Tenetife and the points have paid for 2 apartments and the airfares.

Whilst I am wary of recommending Timeshare nowadays it works wonderful for us and like yourself there are always spare weeks for next to nothing. Between January and March we grab 4 weeks of extra holidays in the winter sun.
Bonds sound exactly the same outcome but possibly a much safer investment .

Like you Andrea we have timeshare with Diamond Resorts who seem to be getting some bad press at the moment but we joined when a company called L.S.I. ran it some 20 years ago. It is not a cheap way of holidaying and is certainly not an investment but we have had many wonderful holidays all over the world but these days we do the same as you using the 59 day booking system and have a couple of months holiday for our points.
The H.P.B. bond looks good but there doesn't seem to be many properties abroad and we already have a few opportunities to holiday in the U.K. with friends and relatives spread across the four home nations but will keep an eye on it.
Thanks for the info Merve and Trish.
Ray

[Manoverboard]

The ' Pestana Group ' are of course reputable and own 5* Hotels on the Island ( of Madeira ) inc the Casino as was ... however, many other Timeshare sales throughout the Canary Islands in particular were dodgy deals set up by Scouser scalley-wags so tis hardly a surprise that the concept has a bad name.

[GillD46]

We owned with the Disney Vacation Club for a good number of years at Disney's Beach Club in Orlando. Unlike many other Timeshares, we actually sold for more than we paid, and after having had many holidays in the mean time. It operated much like the HPB in that we were awarded points annually, relevant to our original purchase, and we could use them wherever and whenever we wished.

We found we were using it less and less often, and renting it out more and more, so decided to sell - at a profit! Now, we are considering one of the Radissons at Malta, as our good friends own there and have highly recommended it, picking up a week or two privately for an absoute song.