The General Election

[Onelife]

Hi Ken..nice to see you back on here and in good form

It matters not which party were in power at the start of the global recession the repercussions would have been the same give or take a few billion. When all things considerd this present governments 38 policy u-turns would probably amount to a few billion, and thats not taking into account the billions it will take to rebuild a NHS which this goverment has all but brought to its knees. Undoubtedly mistakes were made by the labour party but all goverments base their economic decisions on the economic climate of the time, very few, if any look further than their term of office which is why we will be back facing the same predecument in a few years time, unless of course they have a crystal ball that can predict how world economics will pan out. For better or worse you make the best call you can, sometimes you get it right sometimes you get it wrong but the only thing you can be sure about is that some will fair better than others when it happens

Regards

Keith

[Onelife]

Don't get me started on the housing market - we could be here all day.

The biggest issue with the current housing market is that the Government have a "one size fits all" approach. Whilst there is a problem in certain parts of the south the current policies are creating problems in other areas. We keep being told that there is a housing shortage - if that is true then why are all the estate agent's windows full of housed for sale?

Part of the economic crisis was, supposedly, people over-stretching themselves so what do the Government do? - you've got it - they encourage people to get into deeper borrowing/debt. "Help to buy" is a misnomer - it is "help to build" and its aim is to encourage the building industry to build more houses.

With all the enticements available for new build houses it is possible for a first time buyer under 40 to buy a £250k house by saving £9k and with a £140k mortgage. Mark my words in a few years time there will be so many "new" houses on the market it will be unbelievable because people will not be able to repay the Help to Buy loans.

Then there is the issue of trying to get people to buy their own homes instead of renting - so what happens to all the houses that are currently being rented?

All of this is from the experience of trying to sell our house for the last 18 months - all to no avail.

Hi David..

I do understand how frustrating it can be trying to sell your house without having to practicality give it away, however, the choices are limited if you really want to move house, you either sit and wait in the hope you will get near to your asking price or you drop the price to that that which will sell...

I think you are right about estate agents windows being full of houses for sale but that dosent tell the whole picture as there are dramatic shortfalls in housing stocks in certain parts of the country. One of the reasons for this is that private landlords have been buying up housing stock at an alarming rate only then to charge extortionate rents for those who haven't up till now been in a position to get onto the housing ladder. It's always been my understanding that more houses built allows more movement in the housing market, it also has the effect of keeping a cap on prices going through the roof.

I don't agree with you that the new prospective house buyers will fall into the same trap as those who bought on the back of low interest rates...time will tell but when interest rates start going up so will the repossession.

You ask what will happens to the houses that are presently being rented...I don't know but would imagine the landlords will either sit on their portfolios at a reduced rental or sell before the new build housing boom kicks off.

Regards

Keith

P.s Apologies now if I have misinterpreted what you were saying...which I may well have.

[Kendhni]

Hi Ken..nice to see you back on here and in good form

It matters not which party were in power at the start of the global recession the repercussions would have been the same give or take a few billion. When all things considerd this present governments 38 policy u-turns would probably amount to a few billion, and thats not taking into account the billions it will take to rebuild a NHS which this goverment has all but brought to its knees. Undoubtedly mistakes were made by the labour party but all goverments base their economic decisions on the economic climate of the time, very few, if any look further than their term of office which is why we will be back facing the same predecument in a few years time, unless of course they have a crystal ball that can predict how world economics will pan out. For better or worse you make the best call you can, sometimes you get it right sometimes you get it wrong but the only thing you can be sure about is that some will fair better than others when it happens

Regards

Keith

You are relying too much on spin ... we could also mention the 140+ new taxes/tax rises introduced by the Labour government.

Saying 'It matters not which party were in power' is a bit like saying it does not matter which road user crashed the vehicle ... it does matter. As I pointed out very few people dispute the concept of 'global crisis' but you are 100% wrong to say 'the repercussion would have been the same' ... that is pure speculation since there is absolutely no way of determining if any other party would have managed the early days of the recession better or worse ... what we do know is that the Labour party were crassly incompetent in their attitude towards the economy both before the crisis and in the first 3 years of managing the crisis (plus they have contributed nothing to the recovery in the last 5 years ... apart from whining from the sidelines).

I know the media likes to talk about u-turns (I remember them giving Gordon Brown the nick-name of 'corkscrew Brown' due to the number of u-turns he was doing) but there is no doubt that the UK is in a much better place in 2015 than it was on 2010 ... further, in 2010 we were being dragged along by many other countries whereas today we are at the forefront of leading the world out of this recession.

You make an interesting comment about the use of a crystal ball .. and normally I would agree .. except that as far back as 2003 Brown was being warned by the OECD about his spending plans ... he was warned that he needed to curtail borrowing ... he was warned the deficit was a problem ... so in this instance he had his 'crystal ball', it is just that he did not listen to what it was telling him.


So Let s talk about the NHS
I love the old chestnut of bringing the NHS into the argument ... there is a massive amount of mis-information out there and being spun in various different patterns but, my understanding is that the coalition government did (more-or-less +/-1%) maintain its promises following the 2010 review. That review was to keep health spending quite static (in real terms). However I have seen graphs that show that there have been cuts and graphs that show there have been increases ... I have no idea which one to believe, but the one that I am most likely to believe is the official spending statistics published by the NHS which shows the financial year end spending was 88bn (2009), 95bn (2010), 98bn(2011), 100bn (2012), 102bn (2013), 109bn (2014) and 113bn est (2015)

... or if I may quote another stat from the NHS Confederation published document (that I have in front of me) 'in England health expenditure per capita has risen from £1,712 in 2008/09 to £1,912 in 2012/13.' ... an increase of about 11% during that period (a period of low or zero inflation).

Sometimes you have to go with actual statistics rather than chinese whispers, hearsay and gossip ... if, as you suggest, that has 'brought the health service to its knees' then the problem, as most of us know, is within.

BTW it is known (both sides of the Atlantic) unless something very significant is done in the next 20-30 years then healthcare will be totally unaffordable (that will be within some of our lifetimes and definitely within the lifetime of our children). Last year I attended one of the major conferences about Healthcare in America and the numbers being thrown around there were horrifying. Also according to one of the speakers I got talking to, the UK is just as delusional as America about the growing cost of healthcare. He made the comment that even in the UK heath services are unlikely to remain free at point of service ... not without very large tax hikes.

[Kendhni]

Then there is the issue of trying to get people to buy their own homes instead of renting - so what happens to all the houses that are currently being rented?

This is partly the problem we are seeing in London and the South East ... many 'renters' are now looking to get back on the property ladder so the demand is pushing prices back up ... secondly there are plenty of immigrants buying up property ... also I am led to believe there are a lot of foreign investors bidding wildly on properties at the minute. Not my forte ... just what I am reading !

The North of England usually lags behind the South East by about 12-18 months, while further afield the lag is about 24-36 months.

[Kendhni]

Onelife, I have just found a summary of the NHS confederation document online (I knew it had to be there). You can read it at http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key- ... on-the-nhs

A little bit of good and a little bit of bad,

[Onelife]

Ken...you can produces as many statistics as you like about the NHS but just to be clear the NHS spending has increased with every party elected over the past 65 year so your satistics don't mean nowt when set aside what is really happening in the NHS. I do agree with you that changes within the NHS could, and should be made, and the conservative party are well on their way to achieving this by outsourcing the ever increasing waiting lists out to private companies. I think l'm right in say the Health Minister has just signed another £850 million over to private heathcare providers in an attempt to bring down joint replacment lists. In my own town hospital we have just seen five consultants resign due to unsafe working conditions, mostly due to the hospital having to meet the goverment unrealistic targets. As an aside this goverment are trying to make further cuts by closing our hospital which would require a round journey of 40 miles to our nearest hospital. If you dont believe me about the damage this goverment has done to the NHS then believe my wife who has dedecated her life to nursing but now can't wait to get out due to the constant and unrelenting pressures put on her.

I'm just about to have dinner so l'll get back to you latter about the conservative massaging of statistics

Regards

Keith

[Stephen]

I do agree with you that changes within the NHS could, and should be made, and the conservative party are well on their way to achieving this by outsourcing the ever increasing waiting lists out to private companies.

I hear B&Q have put a bid in

[Stephen]

I think she may be tying to tell us something

cameronsturgeonnn_3305642b.jpg

[Kendhni]

Ken...you can produces as many statistics as you like about the NHS but just to be clear the NHS spending has increased with every party elected over the past 65 year so your satistics don't mean nowt when set aside what is really happening in the NHS. I do agree with you that changes within the NHS could, and should be made, and the conservative party are well on their way to achieving this by outsourcing the ever increasing waiting lists out to private companies. I think l'm right in say the Health Minister has just signed another £850 million over to private heathcare providers in an attempt to bring down joint replacment lists. In my own town hospital we have just seen five consultants resign due to unsafe working conditions, mostly due to the hospital having to meet the goverment unrealistic targets. As an aside this goverment are trying to make further cuts by closing our hospital which would require a round journey of 40 miles to our nearest hospital. If you dont believe me about the damage this goverment has done to the NHS then believe my wife who has dedecated her life to nursing but now can't wait to get out due to the constant and unrelenting pressures put on her.

I'm just about to have dinner so l'll get back to you latter about the conservative massaging of statistics

Regards

Keith

Hopefully you enjoyed your dinner

You can't just dismiss stats and facts when they don't paint the picture you want to portray.
Labour did make a bit of a mess with PFI and I am not convinced selling off vast swathes of the NHS will be any better ... but the one thing that everybody know is that something needs to be done .. doing nothing is not an option ... nor is continually treating it like a bottomless pit for throwing money at.

What we have to be careful off is listening to gossip, hearsay, chinese whispers etc. from various groups with vested interests whose only focus is on a few pieces off the jigsaw puzzle, while ignoring those that have access to the bigger picture. On the other hand we also have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. (is that too many cliches for a single paragraph?)

I believe you are correct about the Minister signing more money over to private healthcare ... fortunately Julie benefited from just such an initiative several years back ... when she was referred to one of the top back injury clinics in the British Isles (to get her off a waiting list she had been on for several years) ... BTW that meant I had a round trip journey of 230 miles (5 hours of driving), but for the sake of Julie's health it was a small price to pay.

In my own town hospital we have just seen five consultants resign due to unsafe working conditions, mostly due to the hospital having to meet the goverment unrealistic targets.

This actually made me laugh, because one of the continual complaints I have to listen to from both my brothers is the impact the RQAI is having on their lives ... another government department whose primary purpose seems to be to generate paperwork for themselves. Both now shut their practices early on Friday so that they can spend rest of the day doing necessary paperwork.

If you dont believe me about the damage this goverment has done to the NHS then believe my wife who has dedecated her life to nursing but now can't wait to get out due to the constant and unrelenting pressures put on her.

Pretty much everybody I know has at some point gone through periods where they consider jacking in their job due to pressure after dedicating years of service to the organizations (public and private) that they have worked for ... it is part and parcel of a working life these days (been there, done that, got the tee-shirt). The one thing I would question though is whether or not any pressure felt is really from "government" level (of whichever colour) or, more likely, it is much closer to home and related to poor management at a much lower level or maybe some other bureaucratic department trying to justify its own existence.

I recently had an argument with someone who came to our doorstep campaigning to save our own local hospital (a worthy cause). The hospital needed £250,000 to stay open and the person on my doorstep was boasting how their little action group already had over 50,000 signatures ... and she wanted me to sign. I suggested it would have been more beneficial to have got people to have donated £5 each rather than sign a bit of paper ... signatures, online petitions etc. etc. are just cheap gimmicks ... people have to realise that if they want the services they are demanding them they are going to have to start putting their money where their mouth is ... and when that happens you can be guaranteed that they will be expecting value for every single penny ... that is when the real pressure will start. That is the biggest problem any government currently faces.


As far as massaging figures is concerned, governments have always done that and we have spent the last 5 months listening to all sorts of spin and massaged figures (jeez, every party was caught out with deliberately spun numbers) ... that is why I said I was more inclined to believe stats generated by the NHS themselves .. unless you are about to tell me you can't believe a word anybody in the NHS says.

[Onelife]

Hi Ken...nothing like a leg of lamb with all the trimming to get the political debate back on track

From a starting point that all (with a few exceptions) politicians are habitual liars then its not suprising that the UK electorate relies on a little spin ..it just depends on which spin influences you the most and as you will see below the conservaties certainly know how to spin a goodun.


https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/ ... tory-lies/

Regards

Keith

[Onelife]

I think she may be tying to tell us something

cameronsturgeonnn_3305642b.jpg

Hi Stephen...my eyesight aint none to good these days......what is she holding in her hand..... it certainly brought a smile to his face.

[Onelife]

Ken...l don't see the funding of NHS as a bottomless pit and do agree with you that sooner or later we will have to introduce a mechanism that enables the NHS to continue providing free at the point of delivery services.

You probably won't agree with me but if there was a way of releasing hospitals out of their PFI contracts (buy out) this would in the long term save billions of £££ and is something l think this goverment should be looking in to doing...short term loss for long term gain.

Perhaps a seperate NHS tax should be introduce?

What l don't want to see is us having to go down the line of insurance as that would be the end of the NHS.

Regards

Keith

[Kendhni]

Ken...l don't see the funding of NHS as a bottomless pit and do agree with you that sooner or later we will have to introduce a mechanism that enables the NHS to continue providing free at the point of delivery services.

You probably won't agree with me but if there was a way of releasing hospitals out of their PFI contracts (buy out) this would in the long term save billions of £££ and is something l think this goverment should be looking in to doing...short term loss for long term gain.

Perhaps a seperate NHS tax should be introduce?

What l don't want to see is us having to go down the line of insurance as that would be the end of the NHS.

Regards

Keith

Probably the last post i will be able to make for a few days (i am sure you will be relieved to hear).
Actually I agree re: PFI, the concept was good but it was badly implemented.
Not sure about NHS tax, we already have NI (which many think we should do away with and incorporate into income tax) ... I would prefer a point-of-service charge ... When you give someone something for free they generally put no value on it, and then abuse it ... That is part of the problem with the NHS.

Insurance is probably going to pay a much larger part, but the price is likely to be higher than today .... One thing i would stop though is insurance companies paying policy holders to use NHS (our policy means we get £100 per night if we use NHS instead of private facility). We already have an n-tier health service where money/bribes make a lot of difference.

BTW one of the big problems is going to be the cost of drugs which, before 2050 is expected to totally dwarf the current NHS costs ... There is no way these can be provided by the NHS using the current funding model.

[Onelife]

Ken...l don't see the funding of NHS as a bottomless pit and do agree with you that sooner or later we will have to introduce a mechanism that enables the NHS to continue providing free at the point of delivery services.

You probably won't agree with me but if there was a way of releasing hospitals out of their PFI contracts (buy out) this would in the long term save billions of £££ and is something l think this goverment should be looking in to doing...short term loss for long term gain.

Perhaps a seperate NHS tax should be introduce?

What l don't want to see is us having to go down the line of insurance as that would be the end of the NHS.

Regards

Keith

Probably the last post i will be able to make for a few days (i am sure you will be relieved to hear).
Actually I agree re: PFI, the concept was good but it was badly implemented.
Not sure about NHS tax, we already have NI (which many think we should do away with and incorporate into income tax) ... I would prefer a point-of-service charge ... When you give someone something for free they generally put no value on it, and then abuse it ... That is part of the problem with the NHS.

Insurance is probably going to pay a much larger part, but the price is likely to be higher than today .... One thing i would stop though is insurance companies paying policy holders to use NHS (our policy means we get £100 per night if we use NHS instead of private facility). We already have an n-tier health service where money/bribes make a lot of difference.

BTW one of the big problems is going to be the cost of drugs which, before 2050 is expected to totally dwarf the current NHS costs ... There is no way these can be provided by the NHS using the current funding model.

Yeah! thank gawd for that, you're far to clever for your own good

[Stephen]

I think she may be tying to tell us something

cameronsturgeonnn_3305642b.jpg

Hi Stephen...my eyesight aint none to good these days......what is she holding in her hand..... it certainly brought a smile to his face.

It's all a numbers game

[towny44]

Hi Ken...nothing like a leg of lamb with all the trimming to get the political debate back on track

From a starting point that all (with a few exceptions) politicians are habitual liars then its not suprising that the UK electorate relies on a little spin ..it just depends on which spin influences you the most and as you will see below the conservaties certainly know how to spin a goodun.


https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/ ... tory-lies/

Regards

Keith

Keith, If you cannot see that this article and others from the same source are the work of a left wing group, then there is precious little hope for you ever having any sensible contribution to a political debate.

[Brenda W]

I think that people ought to remember why the NHS was set up. Mainly so everyone could see a Doctor without paying. I would also like to see people given an invoice for the treatment they have had (not to pay) but to show them how much everything costs.

Brenda

[Manoverboard]

.... and in the same way I think everybody should try a BMI Hospital, or similar, just once if only to appreciate that it is the ' service ' that counts rather than the dogma.

In my own opinion I believe that medical services should be paid for by the state but be run entirely by private specialist companies, let's face it the State have proved themselves to be totally incapable of running any business and especially not one the size of the NHS.

[Silver_Shiney]

I think that people ought to remember why the NHS was set up. Mainly so everyone could see a Doctor without paying. I would also like to see people given an invoice for the treatment they have had (not to pay) but to show them how much everything costs.

Brenda

The problem with that is that that would add to the costs and time

[Mervyn and Trish]

The reality is that whoever is the government, whoever runs it, modern medicine has given us expectations way beyond what we're willing to pay for. Whenever someone says the government should spend more on the NHS they should remember the government doesn't actually have any money. What they're actually saying is the tax payer should spend more on the NHS, which is okay if they're willing to put their hand in their pocket personally, which most aren't.

And if we are willing to spend more, what on? Should we really be subsidising the drunks who rely on the NHS to scrape them off the pavement and sober them up and stitch their wounds? And even the heart rending stories we hear about cancer drugs need to be put in context. Of course we all want the NHS (i.e. taxpayers) to spend tens of thousands buying, in many cases, a few weeks or at best months of life if it's us or a loved one concerned, but how many are willing personally to pay more tax to buy that care for someone they don't know?

[Onelife]

Hi Ken...nothing like a leg of lamb with all the trimming to get the political debate back on track

From a starting point that all (with a few exceptions) politicians are habitual liars then its not suprising that the UK electorate relies on a little spin ..it just depends on which spin influences you the most and as you will see below the conservaties certainly know how to spin a goodun.


https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/ ... tory-lies/

Regards

Keith

Keith, If you cannot see that this article and others from the same source are the work of a left wing group, then there is precious little hope for you ever having any sensible contribution to a political debate.[/quoteHi towny,

Whether it is left, right or straight down the middle, the article comes with referencees/ links which gives it more credability than what Cameron and Co would have you believe ...it'll do for me.

Regards

Keith

[Onelife]

.... and in the same way I think everybody should try a BMI Hospital, or similar, just once if only to appreciate that it is the ' service ' that counts rather than the dogma.

In my own opinion I believe that medical services should be paid for by the state but be run entirely by private specialist companies, let's face it the State have proved themselves to be totally incapable of running any business and especially not one the size of the NHS.

Hi Mob,

I certainly wouldn't dismiss your suggestion as it could be argued that a privatly run health care service would be run more efficiently. My concern would be how much it would cost and whether it would be run with the best intrests of patients at heart.

Anyhow, the way this Goverment is taking the NHS will shall soon be finding out.

Regards

Keith

[towny44]

Hi Ken...nothing like a leg of lamb with all the trimming to get the political debate back on track

From a starting point that all (with a few exceptions) politicians are habitual liars then its not suprising that the UK electorate relies on a little spin ..it just depends on which spin influences you the most and as you will see below the conservaties certainly know how to spin a goodun.


https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/ ... tory-lies/

Regards

Keith

Keith, If you cannot see that this article and others from the same source are the work of a left wing group, then there is precious little hope for you ever having any sensible contribution to a political debate.[/quoteHi towny,

Whether it is left, right or straight down the middle, the article comes with referencees/ links which gives it more credability than what Cameron and Co would have you believe ...it'll do for me.

Regards

Keith

Keith,
You seem to have made your mind up that eveything the Tories do is rubbish and that the only way is Labour, as you say we will see what the next 5 years brings, and if it is further prosperity and higher living standards I hope you will have the good grace to admit you were wrong.

[Onelife]

I think that people ought to remember why the NHS was set up. Mainly so everyone could see a Doctor without paying. I would also like to see people given an invoice for the treatment they have had (not to pay) but to show them how much everything costs.

Brenda

Hello Brenda,

I think the principal behind what you have suggested has some merit. Not sure if the if invoicing would work but including the price of treatment on standard addmission letters may be a better way forward. Being knowledgeable about the cost of NHS treatment may help when we are asked to contribute more by way of our taxes.

Regards

Keith

[Stephen]

I think it would a real eye opener if everyone new the cost of treatment.

I've used our local private hospital as an NHS patient a few times and have heard they charge £120 just for a blood test. Last year I was sitting in their waiting area and this Greek sounding chap went off for a X-ray, returned to reception ten minutes later and was coolly charged £900! He didn't bat an eye lid as he handed over his credit card. I thought as I checked my lose change and thought thank god for the nhs