Heathrow, Gatwick, Boris’s Thames Barge or is there a hidden agenda?

[ITWA Travel Writer]

England’s First Minister campaigned in 2010 saying “absolutely no third runway at Heathrow”. As he back tracked over Sir Howard Davies’s “Airports Commission” report today, me smells a rat!!

Little England says that they need more air transport capacity to stop companies flying into Schiphol or Frankfurt. Personally it is much cheaper for me, in the far north, to fly via the European hubs, for long distance flights, thus reducing the crippling air tax.

However, am I the only one to make the connection that within the First Ministers constituency of Witney lies a large airport structure called Brize Norton. Plenty of scrub land around there to expand and expand and expand!! Why are they reducing the armed services so much? Is this a cunning Tory plan hatched in the toilets of Matthew Parker Street in London?

[Silver_Shiney]

That'll be my aftershave, John - Essence of Alley Cat.

Brize Norton is out - it's the RAF's transport fleet headquarters.

But what about Lyneham? It's got the same infrastructure as Brize Norton, probably easier to get to, being just off the M4.

Also, some of the smaller, short-haul, aircraft could just as easily be based at Northolt, which isn't too far from Heathrow. That would free up space.

[Meg 50]

as long as they don't look at Biggin Hill or Croydon Airport

[barney]

Kent International (Manston) is currently closed and it looks like it will become building land.

Alledgedly the longest runway in the country but too far out on a limb.

Where ever it ends up so one will be unhappy.

It seems a bit bizarre to me that we allow planes to fly so low over London given the threats.
Boris Island would have been a great solution that could have made Heathrow a hub only airport.
A tad expensive though.

[Silver_Shiney]

as long as they don't look at Biggin Hill or Croydon Airport

Croydon Airport seems to be built over (according to Google Earth) but Biggin Hill does have a longer runway than Northolt. It seems that the Government has looked at developing Northolt, but discounted the idea

[Meg 50]

yes, I was being facetious about Croydon Airport which is no more other than a visitors' Centre built in the terminal. The rest is factories and warehouses and a hotel (Hilton billed as London - very ambiguous detail in how it justifies that - but that's another story).

Biggin Hill was slightly less facetious

[Sarah62+]

Biggin hill won't be in the mixi. Had enough trouble trying to expand a teensy bit for more Leerjets to fly. We have noticed the extra flights, but nothing much to worry ourselves about at the moment.

[Boris+]

Hey Alan,

Getting to Lyneham to/from the M4 isn't a bed of roses!

I reckon they should build the new requirement at LHR, then expand LGW, and then build Boris Island and when that is ready, close LHR completely.

But, before they do all that, can we please have enhanced links to Southampton?

[Silver_Shiney]

Hey Alan,

Getting to Lyneham to/from the M4 isn't a bed of roses!

It's not that bad, Em, I had to do it every day for a couple of months. Admittedly it would need a bypass for Royal Wootton Bassett.

I reckon they should build the new requirement at LHR, then expand LGW, and then build Boris Island and when that is ready, close LHR completely.

Looking at aerial photos, they'd have to do a lot of demolition work around Heathrow - Sipson is most likely to be lost.

heathrow.jpg

On the other hand, there would appear to be more room at Gatport Airwick to the south of the existing runways - requiring "just" the loss of the off-site car parks and a few industrial units, and possibly some farm land to the west. It would also help if the train fare on the Gatwick Express wasn't so expensive.

gatwick.jpg

But, before they do all that, can we please have enhanced links to Southampton?

[oldbluefox]

With all of this hassle about where to build an extra runway why not take a simpler option:

carlisleairport.jpg

The advantages would be many fold:

• plenty of labour
  plenty of land
  easy access to the motorway for England and Scotland
  no complaints or bickering from the locals
  and moreover, and more importantly, it would help to regenerate an area in the north which has for too long been starved of initiatives.

I know it will never happen but with the overcrowding problem in London is it not time for our politicians to start looking at alternatives. I feel sure it is not necessary to bring all freight into the capital. Surely there are other areas of the country with better distribution prospects.

[Silver_Shiney]

Until a couple of years ago, there was Filton - right by the M4/M5 intersection and stone's throw from Bristol Parkway railway. Now it's being transformed into a housing estate.

[Meg 50]

On the other hand, there would appear to be more room at Gatport Airwick to the south of the existing runways - requiring "just" the loss of the off-site car parks and a few industrial units, and possibly some farm land to the west. It would also help if the train fare on the Gatwick Express wasn't so expensive.

gatwick.jpg

that's easily solved - go by Southern train - same route but half the price

[david63]

Let's revive an "old chestnut".

If Liverpool was to become a cruise turnaround port then cruise passengers from USA (other countries are available) could fly into Liverpool or Manchester and in doing so relive some of the traffic from LHR, and the motorway network getting to Soton. Kills two birds with one stone at a fraction of the cost.

[Quizzical Bob]

Let's revive an "old chestnut".

If Liverpool was to become a cruise turnaround port then cruise passengers from USA (other countries are available) could fly into Liverpool or Manchester and in doing so relive some of the traffic from LHR, and the motorway network getting to Soton. Kills two birds with one stone at a fraction of the cost.

I think you'll find that the number of cruise passengers flying through Heathrow is vanishingly small.

[Silver_Shiney]

On the other hand, there would appear to be more room at Gatport Airwick to the south of the existing runways - requiring "just" the loss of the off-site car parks and a few industrial units, and possibly some farm land to the west. It would also help if the train fare on the Gatwick Express wasn't so expensive.

gatwick.jpg

that's easily solved - go by Southern train - same route but half the price

Didn't know that, Meg, I thought the station at Gatwick was served only by the "Express". Thanks for putting me right.

[oldbluefox]

Kills two birds with one stone at a fraction of the cost.

............................... but it puts dozens of report writers on very high salaries, out of work. They won't be happy with their chums in Westminster. Just think how much this runway saga and HS2 project have cost so far and a sod of earth has yet to be turned. How much longer before they realise you can't squeeze a quart into a pint pot?

[Silver_Shiney]

............................... but it puts dozens of report writers on very high salaries, out of work.

Oh dear, how sad, what a pity, never mind.

[Meg 50]

On the other hand, there would appear to be more room at Gatport Airwick to the south of the existing runways - requiring "just" the loss of the off-site car parks and a few industrial units, and possibly some farm land to the west. It would also help if the train fare on the Gatwick Express wasn't so expensive.

gatwick.jpg

that's easily solved - go by Southern train - same route but half the price

Didn't know that, Meg, I thought the station at Gatwick was served only by the "Express". Thanks for putting me right.

It is a slightly longer (or much depending on how many stops...) journey - the fast one stops at East Croydon.

[Not so ancient mariner]

With all of this hassle about where to build an extra runway why not take a simpler option:

carlisleairport.jpg

The advantages would be many fold:

• plenty of labour
  plenty of land
  easy access to the motorway for England and Scotland
  no complaints or bickering from the locals
  and moreover, and more importantly, it would help to regenerate an area in the north which has for too long been starved of initiatives.

I know it will never happen but with the overcrowding problem in London is it not time for our politicians to start looking at alternatives. I feel sure it is not necessary to bring all freight into the capital. Surely there are other areas of the country with better distribution prospects.

I wouldn't be so sure about that!

[Mervyn and Trish]

To my mind it's simple. The issue is of capacity in the south east. The primary international airport for scheduled flights in the South East is Heathrow. That's where the runway needs to be.

To build it anywhere else will mean tranporting transfer passengers between airports which is inconvenient, expensive and messy. People who want or need to arrive in the South East don't want to arrive via London (Liverpool), London (Edinburgh) or London (Carlisle) airports. Unless of course they are regular Ryanair passengers, in which case they'll be used to it. And in the case of Edinburgh of course if Shrek and Mrs Krankie get their way, by the time it's built you'll need a visa and currency exchange for onward travel to England.

We don't need another 5 year committee meeting or a referendum. Let's just get the thing built before we find we now need two extra runways and generously compensate the people who are displaced or suffer extra noise because of it.

QED.

[Meg 50]

the problem is that Heathrow is in totally the wrong place!

we are miles away, but under the flight path - they stack over Biggin Hill which is only about 5 miles away - so the whole of Greater London is affected.

We went to Kew a few weeks ago and could pretty much see the whites of the pilots' eyes as they came into land ( what felt like every 30 secs!)

[barney]

My point earlier Meg and that is why they need a bit of lateral thinking and start again

Boris Island in the Estuary was a brilliant concept but the short sighted decision makers couldn't/wouldn't get their narrow minds around it.

Expensive without a doubt but to have 'flying bombs' going over the centre of London every 2 minutes is lunacy.

The south east is and probably will always be the economic power house of the country and expansion is definately long overdue.
It's just where ????

It's a shame that another part of the country can't pick up the slack.

[Silver_Shiney]

It's a shame that another part of the country can't pick up the slack.

Particularly as there are a number of decommissioned RAF runways around the country! Half the building's already been done for them - and the MoD is still responsible for maintainance!!

[Mervyn and Trish]

It's a shame that another part of the country can't pick up the slack.

Particularly as there are a number of decommissioned RAF runways around the country! Half the building's already been done for them - and the MoD is still responsible for maintainance!!

I refer you to my earlier comments M'Lud. If travellers want to get to London and the South East they don't want to arrive in rural Lincolnshire, for example. And it's not just a nice disused runway you need. If it's a new airport they went for the infrastructure to service it and connect it to the rest of the country would be hugely intrusive and expensive. Heathrow is already noisy and intrusive and was there before most of the people affected by it. Why spread the pain further?

[Manoverboard]

To suggest that EVERY traveller needs to arrive in, or depart from, London has about the same credibility as stating that every cruise passenger needs to depart from, or return to, Southampton.

Move SOME of the traffic away from London and surely the slack can be taken up by the projected expansion ... assuming of course that there will actually be any.

I noticed recently that Richard Branson's ' Virgin Airways ' has lost a pile, are his planes running with fewer passengers these days ?