Are our kids tough enough ?

[allatc]

Anyone seen this programme on BBC 2 ?

A class of "typical" year 9 kids are being taught chinese style.

Even our Year 9 grand-daughter is appalled by the behaviour of the class !

[Onelife]

Hi alltac

I didn't see the program but l'm presuming you are referring to an unruly class of children being taught in the style that Chinese children are taught.. re behaviour, manners etc?

My personal opinion is that l wouldn't like to see the Chinese teaching system adopted in this country...Whilst l think Chinese children are brought up to value and respect their education l still think our way of teaching is still up there with the best. I'm a firm believer that a 'good head master' with equal good teachers can bring out the best in every child...including those who are considered lost causes.

Regards

Keith

[oldbluefox]

Seems to sum it up to some extent.........................

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Onelife mentions 'brought up to value and respect their education'. In too many homes education is not valued and respect for education in particular and other people in general is virtually non existent.
A father summed his attitude up nicely the other day when asked about taking his children out of school for a holiday. 'Education stops at the school door'. I give up!!!

[Silver_Shiney]

'Education stops at the school door'. I give up!!!

From what I've seen and heard of some schools, it certainly does ... on the way in....

[Raybosailor]

I have not seen the program and have no knowledge of Chinese style education but Nottingham University has strong links with China and even has a campus in Beijing. Beeston where I grew up is on the doorstep of the university and has a large Chinese community, the students are the most polite and well mannered people in the area and it is quite obvious that they have had a good standard of education before coming to our university.

I think Foxy's cartoon just about sums it all up, education and discipline starts at home and an unruly child is usually the result of poor parenting. Before some of you jump down my throat and say some children have behaviour problems caused by mental or medical conditions they are not the children I'm talking about.

Cheryl and I are looking after our two youngest grandchildren during the six week holiday and the first thing they do when they walk through the door is hand over iPhone and game station etc. We bought a load of educational stuff just before the holidays and we sit them down doing writing and maths exercises or painting on a huge roll of paper I bought from Ikea.
Cheryl has been teaching the 12 year old French for some time now which has resulted in her going into the top grade French in her first year at senior school.

Its not all hard work for them as we take them out for the day twice a week, not to theme parks but to nature reserves and museums which they thoroughly enjoy. On a number of occasions we have been told how polite and well behaved they both are but we never notice because that's the way they and their mother before them have been brought up.

My idea of schooling is the one I experienced, discipline at home, discipline at school and discipline on the streets, to put it more bluntly a clip round the ear from my mum in the morning and a clip round the ear from the teacher followed by a clip round the ear from the local bobby if he caught us doing anything wrong.
We didn't go screaming to our parents that we had been given a clip round the ear from a teacher or policeman, we didn't dare or she would give us a bigger clip for getting the clip in the first place. I loved my mum to bits and had respect for the teachers and police and those clips made me a better man.

[Silver_Shiney]

Very well said, Raybo

[barney]

It's definately a generation thing Ray

I recall my son saying to a friend recently, who mentioned he was 'lucky to have gone to a Grammar School', that luck had nothing to do with it.
His education started from birth and both we and he worked very hard to make sure he had the very best start in life.
He is now reaping the rewards of his education.

[Raybosailor]

It's definately a generation thing Ray

I recall my son saying to a friend recently, who mentioned he was 'lucky to have gone to a Grammar School', that luck had nothing to do with it.
His education started from birth and both we and he worked very hard to make sure he had the very best start in life.
He is now reaping the rewards of his education.

Your spot on Barney, I am a prime example of this as my dad was an alcoholic and never gave us a good example but dear old mum had to work hard to keep the family fed and clothed the lad next door on the other hand had two good parents who encouraged him to study. He went to grammar school and on to university while I went to secondary modern and left school with no qualifications, although I have never been out of work from leaving school to retirement (and still working).
Yes you can learn a lot from your parents, the lad next door learned academic skills and from my dear mother I learned life skills, my two kids learned both skills from us and our grandkids are more fortunate having caring parents and grandparents.
That's the word he should have used Barney "Fortunate" fortunate that your son had parents that took time to care.

Got to go my grandaughters teaching me to play the guitar.

[Onelife]

l wasn't aware of the content of the program but took a stab at what l thought alltac's post was referring to. Being a little better informed l don't think my post was far off the mark and l still hold the view that you can't introduce a method of teaching/ideology from a country/culture that is so far removed from that of our own country.

I have to say l thought OBFs pictures gave a fair insight as to how things have deteriorated over the last couple of decades and in doing so one has to have a certain amount of sympathy for teachers caught up in what continues to be challenging times in the class room.

I would agree with all of what has already been posted as there is no doubt in my mind parental irresponsibility is often the precursor to children's bad behaviour inside and outside of the educational system.

I don't think there are any easy fixes but l do think we are starting to make some progress in the area of disruptive behaviour at schools.... perhaps this is due to the realisation that this situation can't carry on.

Good head teachers who implement unwavering high standards of both staff and and pupils is imo the way forward with the introduction of stiff penalties for perents who's children don't respect them.

[Dark Knight]

bring back corporal punishment
bring back loco parentis
increase the fines for taking kids out of school during term time
reduce summer holidays to 4 weeks in summer
extend the school day from 8.00 to 4.30
and tell parents that their children are not at school to doss about and any disruptive behaviour will not be tolerated and parents will be expected to collect their badly behaved children when they are sent home for being disruptive and be fined for the priviledge


Sorted...next

[Silver_Shiney]

bring back corporal punishment
bring back loco parentis
increase the fines for taking kids out of school during term time
reduce summer holidays to 4 weeks in summer
extend the school day from 8.00 to 4.30
and tell parents that their children are not at school to doss about and any disruptive behaviour will not be tolerated and parents will be expected to collect their badly behaved children when they are sent home for being disruptive and be fined for the priviledge


Sorted...next

[oldbluefox]

extend the school day from 8.00 to 4.30

Do you mean shorten the school day? I think you will find nowadays in many schools with breakfast clubs and after school/homework clubs the day is actually longer than that.

[Dark Knight]

I am talking about compulsory school time , not ad hoc clubs added on here and there, I mean actual lessons from 8,00 till 4,30

[oldbluefox]

Get to 2.00 and many of them are already on their uppers. Work them till 4.30 and they'd be to carry out.

[Dark Knight]

it is a sad reflection on our education system that we are now so badly run as a country that we cannot and do not educate our children fully.
it seems to me that the only thing that matters is giving a child enough education to get in to and out of university and have them leave with some sort of degree, however worthless or useless that degree is and any child that is not university material is left to rot
we need more life skills and more practical application to be taught in school and college which can help people find work and manage their day to day lives, not media studies and golf course management

[Silver_Shiney]

We need to bring back polytechnics. Not every child is suited for university and the country still needs hairdressers etc

[oldbluefox]

IMO we need fewer universities, far fewer university places and more apprenticeships. We could then afford to fund further education properly without the level of student fees currently in place. Blair's idea of 50% of the population going to university has led to a devaluing of degrees and an unrealistic expectation from our young people. I feel great sympathy for those who are ending up with degrees which are virtually worthless, student loans to pay off and three years wasted.

[Dark Knight]

IMO we need fewer universities, far fewer university places and more apprenticeships. We could then afford to fund further education properly without the level of student fees currently in place. Blair's idea of 50% of the population going to university has led to a devaluing of degrees and an unrealistic expectation from our young people. I feel great sympathy for those who are ending up with degrees which are virtually worthless, student loans to pay off and three years wasted.

Totally agree Foxymodplod

[Stephen]

University. Just another excuse for getting out of doing a days graft for the another three + years. As Foxy mentioned, apprenticeships are the way forward.

[oldbluefox]

As are gap years. Sorry. You don't embark on a round the world gap year and then complain about tuition fees (which are extortionate anyway). Currently further education is a mess, skewed by irrelevant exam results and a headlong chase towards 'uni' with few prospects of a worthwhile job later.

[Raybosailor]

I think that one day of the school week should be the choice of the student.

Yes we need our kids to learn the key subjects such as Maths, English and Science but a lot of the school week is taken up by subjects that they are not interested in or wont need in their adult life.

For instance my granddaughter is really into dance and performing arts and would love a whole day dedicated to this subject as she wants to make a career in performing arts, maybe as a teacher.
Another student may want to pursue a career in accountancy or banking so an extra day of maths would suit them.

In my opinion few students finish up in a career where Religious Instruction, Geography, History, Art, PE etc are required qualifications unless they seek employment in those fields.

How many of us have sat through a lesson bored to tears because the subject does not interest us ?, I used to love woodwork and metalwork and was very sporty so much so that I joined after school clubs in all three subjects.

I know that in year 9 students can make a choice what subjects they want to major in but they have had two years doing subjects that are dictated to them. Surely the years spent in junior school can be used to find a students strengths and interests.
I believe in building on a persons ability not ramming unnecessary training down their throats.

[Silver_Shiney]

Not to mention degrees in mickey-mouse subjects - "werewolfs from a teenage lesbian vampire perspective". Hello? Earth calling Planet Academia....

[Happydays]

We watched this last night as we were curious about the different methods. What I can say is if any of those pupils were may son or daughter I would have been embarrassed and ashamed that they would behave in such an rude, ignorant and nasty manner. A mother who was called into school about her son taking an electric kettle into class was just as bad as the son, she thought he was funny!!! That explains the bad behavior. If this is how some pupil behave in class I despair for the the future. As the Chinese teacher said they don't have to worry about not making the effort as they can always claim benefits! The Head of Department & Headmaster had poorer grammar than the Chinese teachers. I am very glad that my children are adults and not attending school now!

[Onelife]

Well our daughter is certainly tough enough having struggled with dyslexia all of her life.

She achieved AAB in her A levels and in doing so has secured her place at York University to study biosciences.

Very proud Mom and Dad

[oldbluefox]

Well done Miss Onelife!!!