The far left Tory Party.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I have just heard on the news that Tony Blair is putting his oar in about the Labour Party leadership contest.

Me thinks that he and a considerable number of his still vocal supporters are worried that their “Far Left Tory Party”, “New Labour” is about to be given the bums rush in favour of perhaps a true socialist party at last.

Do you think that the working man is now saying this far and no more, as they did in Scotland?

[oldbluefox]

I cannot believe Tony Blair holds any credibility in any political sphere. He was fortunate to come to power when the Tories were in disarray and promised a whole new experience of socialism. And we all know what happened over the next 13 years. As a consequence the Labour party finds itself in much the same situation with an electorate which still mistrusts them when it comes to the economy and a shadow cabinet still showing remnants of Brown's tenure - Harman and Cooper (with Ed Balls still on her shoulder) trotting out the same mantra. I feel the Tories are the best of a very poor bunch but at the moment the Labour party finds itself between a rock and a hard place.
Of course the SNP made hay whilst the sun shone and took full advantage of Labour's plight. However it will be interesting to see how well they fare over the next few years once the Scots realise that there isn't a bottomless pit of money for them to dig into and if they are to look after 'the most vulnerable in our society' they may have to change the way they distribute the money they receive through the Barnett Formula. It will be interesting to see how Cameron responds to Mrs Sturgeon's rhetoric.

[towny44]

John, without wishing to cast aspersions on the intelligence of the Scottish people, I hardly feel that a Labour party under Corbyn's leadership, however altruistic his ideals, is likely to stage the sort of lemming like response in the voters of England that the SNP in Scotland did at the last election.
My most charitable view of that result is that the Scottish voters knew full well that however they voted it was unlikely to affect the outcome of the UK vote as a whole.
I have been wrong before, but even Methuselah can't remember when.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I do believe that you both miss the point. Scotland, after the many years of oppression forced upon it during the 1800's and early 1900's under the governance by the elite few over the majority, is without doubt a socialist country. The scots live today under no misapprehension that they are universally a working class people. Perhaps a vision that our English brothers have forgotten, or do not wish to be reminded of.

This being the case it should be no surprise to witness the demise of a political party who purports to represent the working class, but which has been seen to fail badly, so much so that it totally looses its support to an other party who reiterates the broad social thinking that the masses wish to see. It should be obvious that this is why the SNP has gained so much support. It is not, as was seen by the referendum result, a desire for a total headlong march along the road to independence but a massive outcry to re-establish lost social values.

Going by the great number of young members who have recently rushed to join the labour party in England, it mirrors the same cry that we saw in Scotland.

This has little to do with the toing and froing, cross bench politics which has marred our social development, but more to do with the exasperation of the many who are still being exploited by the few. Those who believe otherwise are really just burying their heads in the sand. Remember it was the few who stripped our nation of its industrial heritage to replace it with this mythical creature called a financial industry.

[Manoverboard]

I grew up in a Labour ward .... see what I did there ... where everybody voted for Labour. Had a far right or a far left party stood they wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance of being elected.

Nothing has changed, we English still hate extremes.

Would've assumed that the mainly level headed folk of Scotland would be of the same mind.

The increased Membership has probably arrived via the militant element of Trade Union Members in areas where Labour traditionally excel rather than an uprising right across the board. At the next election Labour will flop, is my prediction.

[oldbluefox]

the exasperation of the many who are still being exploited by the few.

It was ever thus.

it was the few who stripped our nation of its industrial heritage to replace it with this mythical creature called a financial industry.

This has had a drastic effect on the whole of UK where manufacturing industry has been stripped away and has led to a polarisation of resources and infrastructure to the detriment of the rest of the nation. Fact is we need a manufacturing industry as much as we need the financial institutions and we need skilled tradesmen and engineers as much as we need academics.
The solution to this conundrum is not to throw out more money in welfare but in providing proper jobs paying decent wages and eliminating those who choose benefits as a chosen lifestyle.

[Frank Manning]

Good point Moby. I dislike some of the Tory Right wing as much as I dislike the loony left of Labour. There still are a few good on both sides, and we should applaud them.

As for the Scots, they aren't so much voting for independence as voting in frustration at being ruled from an elite in London. Some of us feel the same way. Personally I loved my time with the Scots, and I am sad at the anti English rhetoric comng out of Salmond and Sturgeon. It only serves to muddy the waters of their argument.

The whole lot of them need to stop squabbling and start putting things right in the economy, and I mean properly right, not just short term spurts in demand in the retail sector.

You can see why me and Old Blue Fox get on well; singing off the same hymn sheet.!

[oldbluefox]

You can see why me and Old Blue Fox get on well; singing off the same hymn sheet.!

It's uncanny, Frank but as they say, great minds think alike!!!
However I think the greater proportion of the British public probably think the same.

I dislike the anti English rhetoric coming from Salmond and Sturgeon. We found the Scottish Parliament a very hostile, anti-English establishment and nothing like the warmth and friendliness of the Scots we encountered on the rest of our stay in Edinburgh or, for that matter on our visits to Glasgow. For that reason I have little respect for the pair of them and I believe they do Scottish people a disservice in their quest for personal power.
Time will show whether I am right or wrong but thankfully I will not have to live with the consequences.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

It makes my heart warm to see that the bravest and brightest among us can differentiate between the "fish", the fish pond called "The Scottish Parliament" and the Scottish people!!

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not big into politics but I can see what many of those who will choose the next Labour leader apparently cannot. And that is that the vast majority of British people are pretty much in the centre of politics. There are some on the left who will always vote Labour and will love Corbyn. And there are some on the right who will always vote Tory. But it you want to get into government you need the people in the middle too. Love him or hate him Tony Blair understood that. And apparently Corbyn and his supporters don't.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

Tony Blair Merve?
You mean the Tory MP for Sedgefield between 1983 and 2007?

[Frank Manning]

Jeremy Corbyn is right about Blair though. Smirking, insincere, populist and should be tried for Iraq. Just in case anyone thinks I'm totally anti Labour, I never liked Maggie Thatcher either. She was the architect of the end of our manufacturing industry.

[towny44]

Jeremy Corbyn is right about Blair though. Smirking, insincere, populist and should be tried for Iraq. Just in case anyone thinks I'm totally anti Labour, I never liked Maggie Thatcher either. She was the architect of the end of our manufacturing industry.

I always thought that accolade went to the trade unions.

[Delboy]

Tony Blair not my Favourite politician, but he did win the Labour Party 3 elections on the trot.

Wonder how long it will be before they do that again.

More likely after the next election they will have lost 3 on the trot.

[Frank Manning]

Jeremy Corbyn is right about Blair though. Smirking, insincere, populist and should be tried for Iraq. Just in case anyone thinks I'm totally anti Labour, I never liked Maggie Thatcher either. She was the architect of the end of our manufacturing industry.

I always thought that accolade went to the trade unions.

All complicated, but still unnecessary. How come the Japanese and Germans can run successful car plants in the UK and we couldn't? Unions were one factor, bad managemnt was another.

[oldbluefox]

Manufacturing industry in UK was already on its knees before Maggie Thatcher due mainly to restrictive practices, outdated working patterns and low productivity. Unions ruled supreme and prevented modernisation which nowadays we take for granted. A good example is the dockers' refusal to accept containers in Liverpool so they were switched elsewhere. The unions have a lot to answer for in the days leading up to Maggie Thatcher. My criticism of her, having defeated the likes of Scargill & Co was that nothing was put in to replace the lost industries and no government since then has effectively promoted an industrial manufacturing base.

[Frank Manning]

Yes the Unions were partly responsible with restrictive practises, and looking at Unite and RMT I can see that they are still run by dinosaurs living in the past. I also remember Maggie's assertion that Britain was going to lead the world as a Service Economy. I had a long discussion with our Economics Lecturer and we both agreed that it was not possible for a country so dependent on imports to be a predominantly Service Economy without long term impact for over all prosperity. Endless balance of payments deficits leads to what we have now. Other countries China, Germany etc buying up our big brands, as investors and city slickers line their pockets. It cant last because in the end we will run out of family silver to sell off.

There was some terrible management as well. British Managers all thought they had a God given right to treat intelligent workers as though they had no brains and no ideas. All the best companies I worked for were run by non British management...totally enlightened compared to the old fashioned autocratic, misogynistic, know nothings I saw in British companies.

[oldbluefox]

Can we assume you weren't impressed then, Frank.

[ITWA Travel Writer]

Frank, I for one am impressed.

I bet your lectures keep the University kiddies entertained.

[Frank Manning]

Frank, I for one am impressed.

I bet your lectures keep the University kiddies entertained.

I'd like to think they did. I worked with a lady lecturer in Marketing and she was really entertaining. While running a seminar on economical use of words she told a mixed lecture theatre full of students "You can humiliate a man with three two letter words; 'is it in?'". I have never been so red in the face in my life. Of course the students fell about laughing. I might get banned from this site for that one.

[Manoverboard]

[quote="Frank Manning] ... I might get banned from this site for that one.

[/quote][/quote]

No chance but if us Hornets had been playing at Luton, instead of Preston, in the next round of the Capital One Cup and you had come up with some 1959 guff ... then deffo you would have been

[Frank Manning]

[quote="Frank Manning] ... I might get banned from this site for that one.

[/quote]

No chance but if us Hornets had been playing at Luton, instead of Preston, in the next round of the Capital One Cup and you had come up with some 1959 guff ... then deffo you would have been [/quote][/quote][/quote]

"Come on you 'atters!!"

[Manoverboard]

Good plan

[Onelife]

If you follow the money then Jeremy Corbyn will be the next labour leader. If this dose prove to be the case then it could be the turning point in British politics and not for the reason you a probably thinking. I hope he dose become the leader as l think it could trigger the emergence of a new political party, one that is made up from defectors from the right of the Labour party, the left of the disgruntled Conservative party and the wannabe's of the Lib Dem party.

Pie in the sky maybe but if there was every a time in British politics that we need a credible oposition party then it is now.

I'm right behind you Jeremy

[oldbluefox]

Whilst I disagree with Jeremy Corbyn's politics I must admit he has behaved in a very restrained manner considering what some of his 'friends' in the Labour party have been saying about him. I'm afraid some of his opponents running for leader have done themselves no credit whatsoever. If you have to resort to 'Vote for me cos I'm a woman' you really are struggling for ideas.
Rather than attacking what Jeremy Corbyn has to say why do they not put forward their own vision for the future of the Labour party? Perhaps that's why Labour lost most of its seats in Scotland and lost the last election.