My best man, best mate and lifelong friend is a practising Catholic and I still love him to bits....next you’ll be saying I shouldn’t be going to his church to celebrate family occasions.... let alone going out for a meal this coming Saturday
I have no problem whatsoever with people of any faith as long as their faith isn’t used as justification to commit heinous crimes against humanity.
Keefy toady
my statement is simple
if people get so upset by religion, then stay away from it and all it's trappings
can't be that hard , if people have the courage of their convictions, now can it
it seems it is all too easy for people to decry religion and cherry pick the bits people need to justify their views, whatever those views maybe
but these very people who attack and belittle religion are happy to go and vist the wonderful architecture which celebrates and venerates the very same religion, these people belittle, when it suits them
DK, I quite enjoy visiting the odd church or two for similar reasons to Mo. I love to see architecture, the ornate carvings, sculptures, windows etc. and find out a bit about its history. Similarly I have thoroughly enjoyed visits to Ephesus, Pammukale, Giza, Ciaro, Luxor, Petra, Tulum, Kohunlich, Chacchoben (sp?) etc.
I am far from being a history buff, and am not looking a deep in depth understanding of such things, but enjoy them from an architectural and 'relic' point of view and to understand the design and psychology that brought them about.
A while back I posted a link to a 3D image of the Cisitine Chapel .. I have never seen the inside of the chapel and was amazed at how ornate it was. Similarly I recently visited the Van Gogh museum (temp) in Amsterdam (which also gave access to the impressionists gallery) and again found it amazing to stand in front of and see the actual pictures that I had only read about (again I am not an art buff (apart from Julie's Doug Hydes), but I can still be in awe at the use of colour and skill of the artist.
I prefer to look at old everyday buildings - to see the number of windows and those blocked up (possibly due to window tax), or to see an old pulley system to facilitate getting goods in and out of upper floors .... raising the question why couldn't the goods go in and out of the ground floor and this makes a building and an area more interesting.
We visited an old pub in the Cotswolds - and some of the parts made no sense - doorways and stairs to nowhere ..... I was quietly puzzled.
I enjoy a building mystery - and religious buildings don't turn me on at all. The ordinary everyday buildings however - well that's a different story.
My city has a Cathedral and I once went in there to sign the book for Diana, Princess of Wales, but I am not a hypocrite because of that or because I have visited religious buildings as part of an excursion but I did have the courage of my convictions not to get married in Church, or have my children baptised (too many people do these things because that's what you do - not me!). In my opinion having the courage of my convictions is what matters.
I believe, and as I have already said, I have faith.
I was married in a church, my children were baptised, BUT they are not being brought up as Catholics. Christians..... yes
I didint like the way the Catholic schools were run, (30 years ago) I knew too much about certain parish priests.
It caused a lot of trouble in my family and I was alienated for a while from some of the friends I had because of my choice.
But I felt very strongly about it and stood my ground.
I believe in God. But dont have to accept the way some people in the Catholic church behave.
I am Roman Catholic, I see no problem in anyone of any religion visiting any Church of any denomination. There are wonderful examples of architecture in many church/cathedrals throughout the world. I personally feel a sense of peace in any religious building, I don't think an atheist would feel this but I could be wrong.
I am Roman Catholic, I see no problem in anyone of any religion visiting any Church of any denomination. There are wonderful examples of architecture in many church/cathedrals throughout the world. I personally feel a sense of peace in any religious building, I don't think an atheist would feel this but I could be wrong.
Thats exactly how I feel. It would be interesting to know from those who dont believe, if they do feel anything.
As an atheist/agnostic, but when I have visited a Church I feel a sense of what that space means to those with faith, and I know about the comfort some have from belief. For me, the feeling inside a Church has a lot to do with the quiet and stillness, the need to behave in a certain way, and the feeling of peace is because one has to be still, and generally speaking, contemplative.
Does an atheist do Christmas?.....I'm not an athiest..I am a Palace fan
The church teaches and preaches a good message on how we should live our lives and how we should care for others but a great deal self confessed Christians are indeed the biggest hypocrites going.
I am an agnostic / atheist Grade 1 but we live our lives within the spirit rather than the word of Christianity. Some folk that we have met, or in one case are related to, are religious because of what they think they will get out of it ... their idea of giving support is to keep well out of the way but to pray at a suitable distance for the person in need of their personal hands on comfort. I do however respect the rights of others to believe, if that is their wish, providing they do not attempt to impose such thoughts on me.
So ....
We do far more overseas coach trips than cruises so are very familiar with ABCs ... Another Bl**dy Church ... I always go into them to marvel at the craftsmanship and to take pictures, where allowed, of the wealth that the common man has been deprived of.
However there have been a couple of ' outer experiences ' and one where my own imagination had earlier captured the moment of devout Catholics crawling on the hands and knees to repent for their earthly sins, but once inside ' Our Lady of Fatima ' in Northern Portugal there was even for me a presence .... like a ghost, not something to fear but something that was totally peaceful and calming.
My take is that I was receptive to the acoustics and humbling nature of this place and that it was not the Good Lord looking down on me ... it was however very real and comforting at the time.
By the way...for what its worth, I think the Pope has done a very brave and honorable thing....Good luck to the old boy...I hope he has a long and happy retirement.
Personally I avoid religious buildings like the plague. It seemed to me that if people were so completely certain in their beliefs etc that a simple edifice should suffice, and therefore I can only conclude (for myself, personally) that ornate religious buildings could possibly have been built or adorned either for the self-agrandisement of whoever was funding the building or adornment thereto to 'feed and support an ego' or perhaps to overawe people and unduly infuence them through the impression which the building has created.
Give me an honest working everyday building every time - places which have been built and developed with no 'hidden' agenda.
As to what do I feel if I should be in a religious building (I did once enter a church in Paris but only to shelter from a shower of rain) - probably a draught.
I most certainly do not expect anyone to agree - it's just me.
Quote from PTE "The church teaches and preaches a good message on how we should live our lives and how we should care for others but a great deal self confessed Christians are indeed the biggest hypocrites going."
This is what I cannot bear. I do not know how some people reconcile their faith with how they treat others and how they live their lives. Religious dogma, fundamentalists, I don't think any religion condones the use of violence yet people are terrorised and murdered by those who do not want their faith. Priests who abuse children, surely they must be deranged for no decent person could abuse a child whilst being a man of the cloth? It is unbearable.
I think I fall in to the category of an atheist although I think a more intellectual description would be agnostic as science hasn’t as yet proved conclusively the theory of how it all came to be...it will in time.
I have been in many churches, cathedrals and places of worship and can understand why those with faith would feel peace and spiritual warmth from entering such places. Being an athnostic doesn’t exclude me from feeling the serenity of a religious building or indeed empathy with those who seek solace in them.
surely as tony Blair puts his self forward for any top position in the world he would be an obvious choice the only problem being could the Catholics pay him enough to keep him and the wicked witch happy
Poole Boy. I heard that Tone is waiting for the TOP job to become available....GOD!
Why not? "Christmas" is actually a pagan festival hijacked by christianity.
As an atheist, I love Christmas, I love getting together with the family and being given some pressies ... pity they expect me to buy them something back
December celebrations - I used to have a nativity set and an angel for the top of the tree, and I used to select cards which had religious scenes.
Nowadays I don't do the nativity set, the top of the tree does not have an angel on it, and my festive cards do not have religious scenes (just typical view of a snowy landscape) - but we do quietly celebrate the end of the calendar year. We celebrate that we have made it through another year, and toast our plans for the forthcoming new year ahead.
We were a bit pensive about being on a cruise during the christmas period, but having done one which was immediately before the festivities it was just fine, and now we can plot and scheme and plan for a potential christmas cruise.
My faith is personal to me.
If you met me you would never know.
The only point I was making is that you can have fiath, believe in whatever God you like, but dont ever come over a religious person.
I agree their is a lot of hypocrisy in all religions.
Why not? "Christmas" is actually a pagan festival hijacked by christianity.
As an atheist, I love Christmas, I love getting together with the family and being given some pressies ... pity they expect me to buy them something back
Yes me too Ken. Religion is faintly ridiculous if you agree with Darwin. It's impossible for me to believe that there is some being somewhere that controls all this!
I can't think of anybody...(that's not true, I know of two) that celebrate Christmas because it was a Pagan festival.....Most of us celebrate Christmas because it is the recognised birth of Jesus...The Pagans do their own thing at some other time of year.
Father Christmas ain't a Pagan...If anything he is a Palace fan.
Now that we have that bit out of the way, surely Santa has been invented as a means of blackmailing children into behaving?
As explained above we don't do xmas, but we do celebrate the end of a year. Similarly we don't do the religious thing at easter time - but we do embrace the start of a new spring season.
I refuse point blank to be conned by commercialised 'events' and blackmailed by marketing.
Now that we have that bit out of the way, surely Santa has been invented as a means of blackmailing children into behaving?
As explained above we don't do xmas, but we do celebrate the end of a year. Similarly we don't do the religious thing at easter time - but we do embrace the start of a new spring season.
I refuse point blank to be conned by commercialised 'events' and blackmailed by marketing.
Em (hah bumhug!)
Em, so you dont exchange gifts with your family and friends at Xmas?
Is this an agreement you all came to?
Paul, many christian celebrations 'hijack' pre-existing pagan festivals, including christmas and easter, both of which were celebrated many years prior to the birth of 'christ'. An ntersting aside is that while the bible is not clear about the actual date of christ there is much evidence to show that it is highly unlikely to have been December ... Ir is much more probable to have been late summer ... Similarly i believe his execution is not thought to have been at easter, but i can't remember what the most likely time is.
Modern day father christmas was invented by coca cola (fat bubbly gentleman in red. And white ... Prior to that he was portrayed as a thin monk usually in purple or green robes
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