Flooding

[kaymar]

I see that large areas of Cumbria are underwater again and, in particular, Cockermouth is once more in danger of serious flooding.

Are you O.K. up there oldbluefox?

[oldbluefox]

Thank you kaymar for your concern. You must have faced the storm over there. Are you alright?
We are fine as we live high up from the river but others have not been so fortunate. I went out to a meeting in Workington on Friday evening and had to drive through a couple of deep floods. By then most of our bus services had been suspended and didn't resume until high tide had passed. Friends we met in town eventually left on the last Carlisle bus at 9.40 and had a long journey home as the bus avoided flooded roads. Rail links along the coast are cut off by land slips.
Unfortunately Cockermouth, Keswick, Kendal and further inland Appleby, as well as Carlisle have been seriously flooded. I feel really sorry for those who have been flooded out of their homes again especially just before Christmas. My SIL lives just outside Cockermouth and didn't get to bed until 1.30 this morning as they had to open the village hall to make tea for those rescued from their homes. About 32 people are thought to be in the Trout Hotel, Cockermouth where there are reports that water is going up the stairs. Whilst millions have been spent on flood defences since 2009 it just highlights a total lack of investment in flood control over the years. Arguably the rivers have been left to silt up and the ground is already saturated so the water cannot get away.
We should be going out today down to Windermere but I doubt we will be going anywhere until the flood waters subside. In the meantime I'll go and return my swing seat back from the other side of the garden!! Despite fastening it to a tree it broke its moorings and made its way half way across the garden!!!
Is notso alright up in the Carlisle area?

[kaymar]

Glad you're O.K. obf but it doesn't sound too good for the rest of them. As you say, it's easy to blame climate change and "exceptional" rainfall but the lack of maintenance over the years has certainly played its part. Surely it can't be a repeat of 2009.

Like you, we live well above and away from the nearest river and have had no problems, although several nearby manhole covers were dancing on the top of fountains on Thursday evening. The major sufferers here seem to be commercial properties, although a few householders have also been evacuated. There are a couple of bridges down and the river in Laxey is partially blocked by a double-decker bus which fell in when the bridge it was crossing collapsed. Fortunately there were no passengers on board and the driver got out in good time. Also lots of trees down in last nights winds.

At least we have a brief respite today - it is really quite pleasant, but back to wind and rain tonight.

Mind how you go out there!

[Not so ancient mariner]

The part of Carlisle where I live is far enough from the river to be safe, but the wind has taken part of the felt off our dormer roof, so you can have a cold shower in the bathroom whether you want it or not! But at least it's relatively clean water and a few hundred pounds for a new roof is pretty small beer compared with what those whose houses have several feet of contaminated water in them are going through.

[Frank Manning]

Glad you are OK OBF, Sue and I were both wondering how you were. I was going to send an email addressed to 'Soggy Foxy'. I guess 200mm rainfall on Shap has to go somewhere and the coastal part of Cumbria is in the firing line. We live on about the highest point in this area, not so wet as very windy. Fences down everywhere, and Sue hardly slept last night for the noise of the wind.....but then I shouldn't really eat Vegetable Madras on Saturday evenings.

[Ray Scully]

The flooding is truly shocking, let up hope that H M Government makes all the help and resources needed, readily available.

Ray

[ITWA Travel Writer]

I am really glad to know that all you guys are ok and safe from all the flooding.

Frank, my dear Lady Macbeth has never been able to eat spicy food which means that I often as not have to also forgo that pleasure. My father was stationed in India with the army for more than thirty years and whilst in Goa was taught to make a great Goa Vindaloo. The origin of the hottest Indian curry. My mother and brother hated it but my father, cook and me used to sit down in the kitchen every Saturday night for one of his curries, so I am deeply jealous of your Saturday evening Madras.

[wolfie]

Really awful at any time but particularly at this time of year.

[GillD46]

I can't begin to think how awful it must be to deal with this sort of catastrophe. My thoughts are with everyone affected.

[Onelife]

I hadn't realised how bad the flooding has been up north until I watched the evening news this evening. Like others have said it must be devastating for all those affected. Sadly there are no easy fixes for these poor people and my heart goes out to them.

I'm not sure if this is feasible or even economically viable but instead of building flood defences l would have thought building a number of new reservoirs would be a better long term solution to what appears to be a losing battle where flooding is concerned ....at least with reservoirs you can regulate how water is released back into rivers?

[Silver_Shiney]

I hadn't realised how bad the flooding has been up north until I watched the evening news this evening. Like others have said it must be devastating for all those affected. Sadly there are no easy fixes for these poor people and my heart goes out to them.

I'm not sure if this is feasible or even economically viable but instead of building flood defences l would have thought building a number of new reservoirs would be a better long term solution to what appears to be a losing battle where flooding is concerned ....at least with reservoirs you can regulate how water is released back into rivers?

Likewise, this is yet another (possibly avoidable) tragedy and I feel for the victims.

The reservoirs would have to be built in the path of the run-off water, which may not be practicable. However, we are constantly being told there is a shortage of water (!) so harvesting the floodwater (or, preferably, before it becomes floodwater) would not only reduce, if not eliminate, the prospect of flooding but also reduce, if not eliminate, the water shortages.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Good to know everyone is safe if soggy.

I do believe in climate change but I don't believe it is entirely, or even largely, man made and, even if I'm wrong and it is, spending money subsidising wind turbines which are useless for a lot of the time while China builds more coal fired power stations is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Much more sensible to recognise the affects and spend the money on things such as river dredging and flood defences.

I hope you all get the help needed to dry out and put things back together asap.

[anniec]

Good to know everyone is safe if soggy.

I do believe in climate change but I don't believe it is entirely, or even largely, man made and, even if I'm wrong and it is, spending money subsidising wind turbines which are useless for a lot of the time while China builds more coal fired power stations is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Much more sensible to recognise the affects and spend the money on things such as river dredging and flood defences.

I hope you all get the help needed to dry out and put things back together asap.

Well said; I agree with every word.

Just to add, for me it's tragic that the 'experts' are so bothered about the (alleged) future that they don't bother about the appalling pollution which is currently right under their noses.

[Raybosailor]

Parts of Britain under water and homes ruined again, in contrast Namibia is suffering its worst drought while neighboring countries are suffering floods.

Harvesting and culverting rainwater is not impossible as the canal builders of the 1700's proved, they dug out hundreds of miles of canals and side streams with pick axe and barrow. They built pump houses to pump water back up to reservoirs which were also dug out by hand and many of these are still in use today.

We have giant machines which can dig a tunnel under the channel to France and machines that are working under the streets of London digging out new tube lines so that the greedy finance people can get home quicker. Why cant they use similar methods to divert flood water away from these areas.

There are thousands of miles of pipelines carrying oil across the modern world but the use of a pipeline to take water to drought affected countries is not possible, why ?.

Perhaps the answer is MONEY, oil and railways make money but water only saves lives, or ruins them in the case of the flood victims.

I would be interested to know how many of the flooded houses have had their gardens replaced by tarmac, concrete or non-permeable block paving which add to the run off of rainwater into the streams and rivers and helps to swell the rivers.

[Silver_Shiney]

A well made point, Ray

[oldbluefox]

Good post Ray.
Much of the problem comes from a lack of investment in infrastructure, especially in rural areas. Talk is of building flood defences ever higher but rivers are no longer dredged, feeder streams are allowed to silt up, dykes no longer cleared out, debris no longer cleared. When the rains come there is no means for it to drain away especially when all the bridges become clogged with fallen trees etc. Meanwhile bridges are allowed to fall into disrepair (and literally fall into the water), streams left to undermine the foundations of our roads until they too crumble away and we continue to build on flood plains or areas prone to flooding. In Workington they are building a multi million pound sports hall which has already been flooded out before it's finished. You couldn't make it up!!! And as Ray says, more and more of our land is being covered in concrete and tarmac.
Meanwhile we are planning on spending billions of pounds to save 20 minutes journey time from Birmingham to London whilst not for the first time watching hundreds of our people flooded out of their homes and businesses, and the misery it brings.

[Raybosailor]

I must admit that I was one of those people that covered my front garden allowing water to run off into the street which always left a large puddle in front of my drive.
On a visit to a builders merchant I saw a rainwater harvesting system and took home a brochure, the system suitable for the sq. mtrs. of paving I had would have cost me over £2000.00.
Being a tight wad I looked at the design of the system which was like a large cage that you bury underground and cover with a special fabric and a drain gulley that terminated at the cage.

I used to work at a milk depot years ago and knew that they always had damaged plastic milk crates so off I went with my trailer and begged for a load of these crates. I lifted enough paving to dig a hole large enough to bury all the crates 3 rows deep 3 rows wide and six long, I then covered the frame with 3 layers of heavy duty landscaping fabric with a layer of sharp sand in between each layer. The gulley was then built across the bottom of the dive leading to the home made harvesting system and voila !.

It is now required by building regulations that if a drive is covered by non permeable materials a suitable soak away must be put in place to prevent rainwater run off into the top water drains, 30 years too late in my opinion.

[oldbluefox]

Many of the drains are pretty well blocked anyway. I remember a time when they had linesmen who knew all the drains in their area and would clear them of leaves and debris, especially if they were liable to flood. Nowadays, if you are lucky a lorry comes around from time to time and sucks up the debris in the drain but do they actually clear anything further along the drain? There are drains around here which perpetually flood even with ordinary rain, let alone a deluge.
I like your idea of the milk crate soakaway Ray. Have you patented it?

[Frank Manning]

Reading the posts on this page really focusses the minds, unfortunately not the minds of those who could do something about it all.

[Raybosailor]

Many of the drains are pretty well blocked anyway. I remember a time when they had linesmen who knew all the drains in their area and would clear them of leaves and debris, especially if they were liable to flood. Nowadays, if you are lucky a lorry comes around from time to time and sucks up the debris in the drain but do they actually clear anything further along the drain? There are drains around here which perpetually flood even with ordinary rain, let alone a deluge.
I like your idea of the milk crate soakaway Ray. Have you patented it?

No I haven't Foxy but the local milk depot would soon run out of crates if I did, you could build a similar cage out of construction mesh there is usually some left over on a large construction site if you ask.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I heard a right pompous green bloke on the wireless yesterday proudly announcing that they anticipated the flooding we have experienced in the last few years in the 90s.

So Mr Clever d**k, a few questions for you.

1. As you're so pleased with this prediction what about the others you and your global warming buddies have made which have turned out to be tosh? It's very easy to predict the winner of the Grand National if you put a bet on every horse and conveniently forget about those that don't win.

2. As you are so clever why did you encourage us to buy "clean" diesel cars and now want to charge us to drive the same "dirty" cars into cities?

3. Why have you encouraged us to spend a fortune on subsidising wind turbines which don't work when it is a) not windy or b) quite windy and solar panels which don't work in the dark when we need our lights on, insteadof developing modern forms of power generation which actually work, now leaving us with increasing danger of the lights going out?

4. Why didn't you instead advise and encourage goverments to spend the money on some useful things such as improving flood defences, dredging rivers and simple measures such as building substations on high ground and a ban on building on flood plains?

[oldbluefox]

The major problem in this country is our determination to satisfy the whims of minority groups who find that if they beat their drum loudly enough they will get their own way. They then disappear into the ether, either with a peerage or a knighthood (or the European Parliament!) whilst their exorbitantly expensive projects are found to be totally inefficient and a waste of money.
Meanwhile for the past fifty years or more there has been a significant lack of investment in the infrastructure of some parts of the country. In the past week, due to problems associated with flooding there were no trains out of Carlisle to the north to Glasgow, the south to Preston or cross country to Newcastle and Edinburgh. Meanwhile the government are pressing ahead with HS2 which the Department for Transport estimated the cost to be £43 billion; a study by the Institute of Economic Affairs suggested a total cost of £80 billion.
I would suggest better value would be achieved by investing in securing other parts of the rail network to enable people to go about their daily business before trying to clip twenty minutes off the journey time from Birmingham to London.
Or have I got my priorities all wrong?

[barney]

Far too sensible Foxy .

Two local news stories on my TV last night that make you wonder what the world is coming to.

Story one - closing Margate School for the profoundly deaf & disabled (what would have been called deaf & dumb) due to lack of funding
Story two- £10 million being spent bringing an outdoor Lido back in to use.

Now, which is the most important ????????????????

[Mervyn and Trish]

Interesting points, but if there is a case for HS2, which I am mixed on because there is more to it than getting to Birmingham faster, then halving the overseas aid budget would pay for it in 6 years. Given we are second only to the US, a marginally larger country, in our overseas spending, I think there may be scope there.