English language requirement

[Quizzical Bob]

But less use than English, the international language of air traffic control

And how many of us every use that?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Anyone who flies relies on it. But my point QB was that for the average person on holiday, not the diplomats or gifted linguists like yourself, the most widely spoken language in the western world, and third most widely spoken in the whole world, is English. French is not even in the top ten. If we want to learn another European language Spanish is more use than any other.

[anniec]

French is the language of diplomacy. I have spoken it in various parts of the world, in particular Canada.

Mind you, I also speak German, Spanish, Italian and some Danish. I love languages and being able to have a few words with the locals and immerse myself in some of their culture.

I'd like to get to know Russian, Mandarin and Arabic but as they used to say at school,

Ars longa, vita brevis.

It's much less of a faff to simply shout

[Ranchi]

To digress, but only a little, Bill Bryson states that when Ford got involved with Iveco the truck manufacturers in Italy in the late 1970s/early 80s they insisted that English was used by management. This was a direct result of the problems faced by Alfa Romeo when they produced the much maligned & ill fated Alfasud. The Alfasud was so called because it was produced in southern ItLy (Naples?). The problem was that management was Turin based & spoke a different dialect tho the Neapoltan work force causing much resentment and this was identified as a major factor in the disaffection of the workforce, resulting in poor workmanship on the Alfasud car.
I like Bill Bryson as an author but sometimes he gets the odd thing wrong so I took this with a pinch of salt.
A few years ago I was at lunch on Aurora and shared a table with a couple & the gentleman said he had worked for Ford. It turned out that he had a senior position worldwide in the organisation so I asked him about the Ford/Iveco language agreement. He said he didn't know about that but he wouldn't have been surprised as the Germans had allowed Ford to use English during the war in their engine plants in Europe.
That really surprised me as prior to that time I had never considered the role of multinational companies in times of war.

[Quizzical Bob]

Anyone who flies relies on it. But my point QB was that for the average person on holiday, not the diplomats or gifted linguists like yourself, the most widely spoken language in the western world, and third most widely spoken in the whole world, is English. French is not even in the top ten. If we want to learn another European language Spanish is more use than any other.

Unless you happen to be in France, of course.

[Keechy]

What ever happened to Esperanto? It was supposed to be easy to learn and could be used all over Europe - assuming they could speak it themselves!

[Onelife]

I generally find an acknowledging smile and a few hand gestures helps break down most language barriers.

[Mervyn and Trish]

What ever happened to Esperanto? It was supposed to be easy to learn and could be used all over Europe - assuming they could speak it themselves!

It's reckoned around 2,000,000 people in the world speak Esperanto, 2,000 of them as their "native" language spoken from birth.

By contrast there are said to be 508,000,000 English speakers, for whom 335,000,000 it is their first language.

So you are 254 times more likely to encounter an English speaker. That may answer why it never caught on here!

[qbman1]

.....That may answer why it never caught on here!

That, and the fact that we are mostly bone idle where languages are concerned and expect the rest of the world to learn "our" language !

Just shout and point and "Johnny Foreigner" will understand - we're British, don't you know !!

[Mervyn and Trish]

We are bone idle, but largely because we'd have to learn a dozen languages just to go native on holiday in Europe (unless we're diplomats or only holiday in France) whereas Johnny Foreigner only has to learn English to be understood. And shout and point of course.

[Quizzical Bob]

We are bone idle, but largely because we'd have to learn a dozen languages just to go native on holiday in Europe (unless we're diplomats or only holiday in France) whereas Johnny Foreigner only has to learn English to be understood. And shout and point of course.

Some knowledge of German will get you through Germany, Austria, half of Switzerland, Luxembourg, most of the eastern states and will give you an understanding of Dutch and some of the Scandinavian words.
French covers Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, some of Germany and is a common means of communication with many educated people from all over Europe.
Spanish is becoming the lingua france in large areas of the world including the USA and nowadays I would probably recommend studying that before French.
Italian is very useful in its place as not so many Italians have much grasp of English.
Before any of these I believe that Latin is a solid basis for learning the structure and grammar of all of Western Europe.

A lot of people do speak some English but mainly in the service sectors and upper business levels but if you really want to get to know people and receive the best attention then some knowledge of their language and culture will go a long way and is very rewarding. Much is often lost in translation and speaking only English will mark you down as a tourist and invite exploitation. I can recall many occasions where I have been able to converse with someone in a common language which was not native to either of us.

It is not necessary to be fluent, but making some sort of effort is often much appreciated.

[Mervyn and Trish]

You do it your way and I'll do it mine QB. You are clearly able at languages. I am not. I do manage a little Portugese as we go to Madeira twice a year, because I agree it is nice to try, but when I do so generally they answer in English.

You mention four languages for your European tour. Life is too short for me to start on those. It took me five years to achieve a three year old's grasp of French.

And it's the service sectors I'm interested in. I'm not about a try to sell something, enter the diplomatic corps or take over a company.

It may be lazy but if they can't understand my order for two coffees, which I can do in English, Portugese or French, I'll go to the cafe next door.

[qbman1]

I can order two beers or a coffee and say please and thank you in 7 or 8 languages and understand a lot of the signs and menus. I get by. As QBob says, even if you cannot hold a conversation, it is appreciated if you at least try to communicate in the native language. Mind, you, in predominantly non-english speaking areas, I find a lot of people in shops, bars and cafes welcome the chance to try out their English

I can say "cheers" in Serbo Croat too !!

[Silver_Shiney]

A conversation I had with a Calais shop assistant sticks in my mind. There was a cute little backpack in the window, that I thought my daughter would like, so I went in to ask how much it was, using the word "fennetre" (sic?). The girl looked at me as if I'd just landed from Jupiter. In the end, I had to drag her over to the window and point to it.

When I got home, I spoke to a colleague who was a fluent French speaker and I asked her to translate what I was about to say in French - "how much is that backpack in the window" she correctly said.

I later met a French girl in London and asked the same of her. She, too, looked quizzically at me and asked what I was trying to say.

Apparently "fennetre" is a house window, a shop window is "vinnitre" (sic?). Surely that shop assistant would have realised that she was dealing with an ignorant Brit and made the appropriate allowances?

Sadly, making the effort isn't always appreciated by the locals...

[qbman1]

I'm just impressed you know the French for "backpack"

[Silver_Shiney]

I don't, I had to look it up in my pocket dictionary, which unfortunately didn't differentiate between the two words for window!!

[Quizzical Bob]

I don't, I had to look it up in my pocket dictionary, which unfortunately didn't differentiate between the two words for window!!

Vitrine HTH

This story may be apocryphal but allegedly there was an EU meeting where the French delegate was speaking about a problem and, referring to the renowned ability of the people of Normandie for wise counsel, said:

Cce problème sera résolu par la sagesse Normande'.

The English delegates fell about laughing when this was translated in their ears as:

'This problem wil be resolved by Norman Wisdom'

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm just impressed you know the French for "backpack"

I think you'll find it's LE BACKPACK

[Manoverboard]

I'm just impressed you know the French for "backpack"

I think you'll find it's LE BACKPACK

LA Backpack, surely ?

[Silver_Shiney]

It's academic, really, as I didn't buy it!

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm just impressed you know the French for "backpack"

I think you'll find it's LE BACKPACK

LA Backpack, surely ?

To be sure buy two, then it's LES backpacks.

[Quizzical Bob]

Sac à dos, actually. You could always try the German word which is...

Rucksack

[Silver_Shiney]

Thanks, QB, I had it in mind that it was sac a dos - it was nearly 30 years ago!

[qbman1]

I'm just impressed you know the French for "backpack"

I think you'll find it's LE BACKPACK

LA Backpack, surely ?

To be sure buy two, then it's LES backpacks.

Les Backpacks ? I'm sure that was the name of my old Scout Leader !!

[Silver_Shiney]

To try and get the thread back on track, I don't think it unreasonable to expect people who want to settle in another country to have even a rudimentary knowledge of the new language.