EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[allatc]

It's only in the last few years that the true intent of the European Union has been fully exposed - "ever greater union" leading to a single political entity with common laws and customs across the whole area.

In fact the only way it can work properly is just that.

We were mislead for decades that we were joining a "Common Market"

The "concessions" that David Cameron claims to have obtained are worthless and can be overturned by the other member states at any time.

The question for us is "Do we want to be part of a United States of Europe run from Brussels". That means being fully in, no half way house, including adopting the Euro and accepting that our laws will be made in Brussels.

If you're happy with that then vote Remain.

[anniec]

Nick Robinson did a most interesting programme last night, with some very useful reminders about the origins of the whole thing. Part 2 is (I think) next week.
If you missed it, well worth watching.

[Solent Richard]

Well I'm voting 'OUT'

Tara.

[Silver_Shiney]

Still haven't received CMD's booklet.. I was going to send it back to No 10 but then thought what's the point? The Royal Mail may not deliver it but chuck it. If they do intend delivering, they'll be put to the trouble and expense of charging No 10 for the excess postage. If No 10 do pay it, it will come out of taxpayers' money and they've wasted enough of that already.

[oldbluefox]

Yvette Cooper was talking about preserving Britain's manufacturing industry against cheap imports.
Chinese steel? How much industry has moved from UK to Poland? How does this help our manufacturing industry?
She mentioned Canada trading with the EU and the levies they have to pay. Surely if we leave the EU we will be free to trade openly with the likes of Canada without levies which will help our trading figures.
I cannot help feeling the British public are having the wool pulled over their eyes by our politicians who only have their self interests at heart. Nowhere can I see that our membership of the EU has improved the standard of life over the UK as a whole. Maybe in London and around the Channel ports there has been some benefit but I see little impact up here in the north, in fact the country is in a mess.

[Silver_Shiney]

Yvette Cooper was talking about preserving Britain's manufacturing industry against cheap imports.
Chinese steel? How much industry has moved from UK to Poland? How does this help our manufacturing industry?
She mentioned Canada trading with the EU and the levies they have to pay. Surely if we leave the EU we will be free to trade openly with the likes of Canada without levies which will help our trading figures.
I cannot help feeling the British public are having the wool pulled over their eyesby our politicians who only have their self interests at heart. Nowhere can I see that our membership of the EU has improved the standard of life over the UK as a whole. Maybe in London and around the Channel ports there has been some benefit but I see little impact up here in the north, in fact the country is in a mess.

Would that be domestically-produced wool, or imported from the EU?

[barney]

No benefit to the Channel ports Foxy

All we get out of it is congestion on the motorways

You'd actually be amazed.
9 out of 10 trucks have foreign EU plates and many look in pretty rough nick.

We also have the constant problem of them parking in lay-bys and pretty well anywhere else they fancy, to avoid paying truck stop fees.
On the A2 near to Gravesend, there are literally dozens parked up on the hard shoulder of the slip roads and the police seem to do very little about it.

Even very near to the first truck stop at Folkestone, you'll see them park up in any lay-by they can get into, often within a few hundred yards of the official truck stop.

Do I blame the truckers?
Well, yes.
Truck stops with showers are provided but are chargable.
They chose to park up in lay-bys and often leave their rubbish behind when they go.

Maybe the Police should have a truck stop team giving out on the spot fines.
That would sort it out.

And don't even get us started on Operation Stack

[towny44]

We do seem to be covering the same ground repeatedly. Clearly those supporting Remain will put forward their spin, as will the Brexit crowd and neither can produce any hard facts to support their cases, because there aren't any until we actually vote leave and begin exit negotiations.
IMO immigration and the control of our borders is a none issue, our borders are already breached and our social services are sinking under the strain, and I cannot see this improving whichever way we vote.
Trade is however vital and my hope is that if we do leave, the EU will be just as desperate not to rock the trade boat as we are in any negotiations.
The overriding benefit of leaving in my view is that the EU can then continue down its federal path without the UK being affected, other than by economics if the federal dream turns sour and the EU implodes. Which if it happens we will be in a far better state to weather the economic storms by being outside rather than inside the EU.
Barney, I sympathise with your dilemma but in or out of the EU I would expect the same volume of traffic, however maybe by being outside the EU we might find it easier to police these issues and improve your situation, but in all honesty we ought to be able to do that now.

[Silver_Shiney]

We should, indeed, "find it easier to police these issues and improve [Barney's] situation, but in all honesty we ought to be able to do that now" but are our hands possibly tied by some arcane EU regulation? Infringement of the truckers' "yuman rites"??

[barney]

No, not at all S_S - nothing to do with the EU directly

Just an under resourced police force with different priorities.

Last time Stack was on, it cost Kent Police (us) an additional £2.5 million

The PCC applied to central government for some redress and was basically told to do one!

Following on from OBF's earlier comment, I can't really think of any major benefit to our region.

Paradoxically, my brother lives and works in Malta and the EU (us) has virtually rebuilt the island
They fly the EU flag from every building

Even the new Aquarium at Qwara AND the new lift from the dockside up to Upper Barrakka Gardens was EU (us) funded

[Onelife]

The pro Euro camp seem to be spreading the doom and gloom predictions faster than charities are dishing out food parcels. If you read any off their doomsday senarios you will find that they inevitably start with....If, could or might which basically means they also haven't got a clue how things will pan out.

OBF is right.....We have all but lost our Industrial base (in this our beautiful country) but in doing so we are losing the skill base that goes with it. What do people think will happen when we have to import more and more because we don't have the skill base to make them ourselves...well my prediction is that we will be charged a hefty price for allowing the demise of our industrial heartlands.

Vote out and let's start rebuilding our country again.

[oldbluefox]

Barney, you do have that wonderful rail link to the Continent. We travelled down to Ashford from London and were gobsmacked by the new coaches, the smooth line and the speed of the thing. Up our way we still have steam and if you're going from Barrow to Carlisle you will need to take sandwiches!!!!
Apart from the rail link you have (and the wonderful views of the Stack) I couldn't really think of any other benefits....................
Meanwhile there are some wonderful projects in place on the Continent being financed by the EU. Are we getting a good deal?

[barney]

Yep, gotta admit that the train is pretty impressive

Ebbsfleet to London in 12 mins.

Hardly time to sit down.

We've also done Ashford to Paris a few times and it was flawless

Back in the day ( a few years ago) we would take the old ferry to Calais for the day and visit our favourite sea food restaurant.
We couldn't run the risk anymore as the French have allowed these awful camps to set up and there are gangs everywhere.
It must be costing the business of Calais a fortune.

[Silver_Shiney]

Thanks, Barney, we were toying with the idea of getting the ferry back from Calais next year. We'll go from Dunkirk instead.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So the latest scare from the Chancellor is if we leave the EU mortgage rates will go up. Has he seen the rates at the moment? There's only one way they can go whether we leave or not.

Plus as a saver who's been thoroughly screwed by the low rates I'd welcome them going up!

Another reason to vote OUT!

[Happydays]

So the latest scare from the Chancellor is if we leave the EU mortgage rates will go up. Has he seen the rates at the moment? There's only one way they can go whether we leave or not.

Plus as a saver who's been thoroughly screwed by the low rates I'd welcome them going up!

Another reason to vote OUT!

I agree

[david63]

Well after seeing Corbyn's speech on Thursday and Boris's last night I know who inspired me the most!

[Mervyn and Trish]

Well after seeing Corbyn's speech on Thursday and Boris's last night I know who inspired me the most!

And the winner is......

[oldbluefox]

Well, Mrs Krankie, Leanne Wood and Natalie Bennett are all in favour of us remaining. If that's not enough to make you want to exit I don't know what is!!!

[barney]

Very impressed with Grayling this morning on Andy Marr show.

He spoke an awful lot of sense in a very measured manner.

[barney]

The attack from the Remain campaign seems to be that the Leave campaign cannot tell anyone exactly what will happen if we leave, because 'they don't know'!!!

Err! yeah, that's sort of the point isn't it.

No one can possibly know because it's never happened before.

I like to think that I'm not a total idiot (some may argue) but how can anyone decide the endgame before the game has even started?

[oldbluefox]

But we do know what the EU is offering us at the moment - and its track record in the past and future prospects are not very good.

[Happydays]

If we stay the EU will try and stuff us for having the audacity to have a vote! I'm still for leaving....

[Onelife]

Our future isn't about waiting to see what happens it's about creating it so it dose happen.

I'm out

[oldbluefox]

Very philosophical OL!!! I think I know what you mean but it really sounds good anyway.