EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[Silver_Shiney]

However, if they come, as, for example, those Romanian gypsies encamped around Marble Arch did a year or so back (are they still there?), to cause problems,leach our benefits system and cause a strain on our already-overburdened education and health services, then no.

SS
that is my point in a nut shell, the vast majority of our country think this is the norm and we will be overrun, all the discussion about trade, GDP, trade agreements etc is a ruse to divert people away from what is seen as the main issue, immigration and that fear is fuelled by underlying racism.
People are too quick to dismiss Farage and his ilk but I bet his message gets through to more people than does Cameron's

I don't think it is racism to be wary of those who come to cause problems etc - we have more than enough home-grown lazy gits who milk the system to import more. I still believe that becoming entrenched in a federal government, in which we have little say, is a major reason for wanting to leave. I voted for a common trading market, not a common political union.

[qbman1]

I would defy anyone in here to give a honest unbiased summary of what will happen if we stay or if we leave because you simply cannot,despite your protestations one way or another.
The decision to leave will be made out of fear, not information and that fear will show the true nature of our country, as the underlying reason most people will vote to leave is racism, pure and simple, the fear we will be overrun by foreigners, muslims, poles. turks, people coming here to claim benefits to send back home, fear of open borders and that our way of life will be subsumed by the rest of Europe until and we will become a puppet of the German state. That's the real reason for an exit, all the talk of economics is conjecture with no basis in fact, all the talk of trade deals is a myth.
No, the real issue here is that the UK is an inherently racist country that still thinks we have an empire and that we are superior to most other cultures and that racism and bigotry will be the underlying reason most people vote to exit
whether people are honest enough to admit it is another issue

It is not racist, wanting to maintain some degree of control over our borders. A tad xenophobic, maybe, but racist, no !

[Silver_Shiney]

One of the main reasons they come here it to get work. They are eminently employable, my experience being that they are extremely competent and give value for the wages page. That is if they have not set up their own companies. So without them and to attempt to grow our economy we would have to fall back on our own resources,
many of whom are unemployable IMHO

Many of the Lady C's colleagues are from Eastern Europe and are doing jobs that many Brits would turn their noses up at. Two of them (a married couple) have now earned enough cleaning the Mall's toilets that they've bought their own house in Hungary and intend to return there. Why are they here? Because wages are higher than at home. Because the vast majority of Brits think it's beneath them to clean a public toilet (if I lost this job, I'd be up there like a shot to earn my crust, rather than have you lot pay for my upkeep). But if we were truly a common market/entity/whatever, should wages not be the same throughout, thereby negating the need for such economic migration? Not sure if that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say, don't know if it's come out correctly....

[Dark Knight]

yes yes, you can all stop shouting how you aren't racist: but Border control , stopping migrants, migrants on benefits looms large in all areas of the EU referendum vote, so whilst you yourself may not be a raging Nazi or a member of the National front, many in this country are and the older generation are worse than anyone , the number of times I have seen OAP stating that the EU is the the Germans coming to finish what they started in 2 world wars is beyond embarrassing and shows just how stupid and ill informed people with a vote are
Part of the EU charter was open borders and full migration for its member states' population and our biggest reason for leaving will be exactly that
I have yet to see one iota of credible economic evidence as to what will happen either way but I have seen plenty of jingoism, racism and downright stupidity when discussing borders and I am willing to bet that if most were truly honest, that would be their biggest concern

[Ray Scully]

After some soul searching I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT
I think we should call the EU bluff and get out. They will still want to sell to us but let them pay 10% for the privilege. They would not dare to slap a tariff on our exports in fear that we would sell everything they need into friendlier markets. As far as immigration is concerned, of course we will adopt a liberal view and accept highly educated professionals cutting out the costs of training ourselves. The overall result being that the GBP would soar, cutting the cost of foreign travel for all. The foreigners will still clammer to visit the UK but because of the new exchange rate will be paying twice as much for the experience. Our scientists unfettered by EU constraints will develop and have up and running atomic fusion reactors within ten years. By this time the EU will be bankrupt and we will be able to annex it at a cost of a few thousand Pounds

[Silver_Shiney]

I'm not sure that sarcasm is your strong point, Sir Scully....

[Dark Knight]

well done ray, what with this cunning plan and cashing in on EU rules about flight delays, its all sorted
no need for a referendum......true genius at work
however given we have next to nowt worth exporting we are a service provider country not a manufacturing one and are a huge net importer of gas and oil ,food ,clothes cars etc, we would be back in the stone age by Tuesday after the vote but kudos for a rousing manifesto

[Ray Scully]

well done ray, what with this cunning plan and cashing in on EU rules about flight delays, its all sorted
no need for a referendum......true genius at work
however given we have next to nowt worth exporting we are a service provider country not a manufacturing one and are a huge net importer of gas and oil ,food ,clothes cars etc, we would be back in the stone age by Tuesday after the vote but kudos for a rousing manifesto

DN

I stand by all I said and what's more it is factually in keeping with Brexit policy.

[Dark Knight]

ray
based on which facts? I am sure we would all like to hear THE facts and more importantly where you alone got the facts from, as nobody including the government or the EU itself have any facts to offer the voters at all?
but go for it , I for one can't wait

[Silver_Shiney]

Comment just received from Hargreaves Lansdown:

Brexit adds huge uncertainties. Opinion is divided over how much impact a vote to leave the EU would have on the City and UK financial services in general. But very few voices are suggesting it might be a positive, and this perhaps is why the UK sector has not joined in the broader global bank shares recovery. A report by Capital Economics, commissioned by Woodford Investment Management concluded that the UK financial services sector had more to lose than most industries, especially if passporting rights were to be lost. In the longer term though, the report stressed that the City’s success was down to a lot more than simple unfettered access to the single market.

[Ray Scully]

ray
based on which facts? I am sure we would all like to hear THE facts and more importantly where you alone got the facts from, as nobody including the government or the EU itself have any facts to offer the voters at all?
but go for it , I for one can't wait

I don't need facts to put forward a Brexit viewpoint .

[Dark Knight]

Oh that's a shame Ray, I thought you genuinely had some insight rather than trying to be humorous
Looks like you failed on both counts

[anniec]

Interesting poll on the MSE site - surprising result so far, bearing in mind the participants tend to be younger than most of us:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/pol ... llid=13483

[Ray Scully]

Oh that's a shame Ray, I thought you genuinely had some insight rather than trying to be humorous
Looks like you failed on both counts

Don't need pity DN

[Silver_Shiney]

Interesting poll on the MSE site - surprising result so far, bearing in mind the participants tend to be younger than most of us:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/pol ... llid=13483

What does the article say, Annie? I find I have to create a login to read it, which I don't want to do

[Mervyn and Trish]

One thing that referenda seem to have in common, at least this one and the Scottish one, is that the arguments put forward create more heat than light.

[Quizzical Bob]

Ray, Frank, Moby, QBob, I fully understand the fear of the unknown that the prophets of doom in the remain campaign have sown in your minds, and I do admit to some similar trepidation amongst the soul searching I have done about this referendum.
But the bottom line still keeps telling me that a vote to stay in the EU is a vote to ultimately sacrifice our independence totally to Brussels, and to join the Euro, because there is no way that the major players in the EU have any intention to stop until a fully fledged Federal States of Europe exists; and this will happen regardless of the so called concessions David Cameron has obtained, and it will demand that all member states join the single currency, because that is the only way the euro can survive.
Now if you want this to happen then by all means vote to stay, but if you want to retain our independence then there is no way you should ever consider any vote other than leave.

Hi Towny,

My opinion has been solidly to remain and has not been influenced by any prophets of any sort. It is blindingly obvious to me that leaving the EU has no upside of any sort and plenty of downsides. We would have to be totally off our trolleys to ever want to leave.

[anniec]

Interesting poll on the MSE site - surprising result so far, bearing in mind the participants tend to be younger than most of us:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/pol ... llid=13483

What does the article say, Annie? I find I have to create a login to read it, which I don't want to do

Sorry, didn't realise that. It's a poll on the Money Savings Expert forum (in the section Debate the Economy or similar). The question asked is: Are you voting to stay or leave EU (nice and simple); at present, 66 people voted to remain and 103 voted to leave, which I found surprising. Perhaps there's hope .

[Manoverboard]

Ray, Frank, Moby, QBob, I fully understand the fear of the unknown that the prophets of doom in the remain campaign have sown in your minds ...

You misunderstand me.

NOBODY has put a fear of any sort into my mind, the concerns that I have were pieced together in my own mind by little ol me.

Basically ....

I genuinely would not wish to see the value of our pension(s) drop nor would I wish to see our grandchildren facing a bleak future regarding their employment prospects, both are real risks in MY opinion. Unlike some of you I deffo do not have a village / Island mentality that fears the strangers coming from a foreign land but I do agree that sensible restrictions will eventually need to be put in place.

The concept of European union was based on an idea put forward by Winston Churchill don'tcha know and every agreement has advocated Federalism even if you didn't read the small print. Having a pound coin rather than a 1 euro piece in my pocket is meaningless if the pound coin buys less that the euro, the symbolism of English coins will surely become irrelevant once Her Maj is promoted to a higher place.

In reality I have more concerns about being governed by an opportunist buffoon like Boris than rumours of marauding Turks.

[Dark Knight]

Agreed Moby
I am more concerned about the economic impact of staying or leaving ,than having less than 5 % of the population being from the EU.
That said when I watch the roving reporters asking members of the public why they want to leave , I am profoundly embarrassed by the replies that portray the EU as a branch of the 3rd Reich and that this is an economic take over as opposed to a military one and it does seem that the older the person questions is, the more bigoted the answer

[Silver_Shiney]

Interesting poll on the MSE site - surprising result so far, bearing in mind the participants tend to be younger than most of us:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/pol ... llid=13483

What does the article say, Annie? I find I have to create a login to read it, which I don't want to do

Sorry, didn't realise that. It's a poll on the Money Savings Expert forum (in the section Debate the Economy or similar). The question asked is: Are you voting to stay or leave EU (nice and simple); at present, 66 people voted to remain and 103 voted to leave, which I found surprising. Perhaps there's hope .

Thanks, Annie

[towny44]

Ray, Frank, Moby, QBob, I fully understand the fear of the unknown that the prophets of doom in the remain campaign have sown in your minds ...

You misunderstand me.

NOBODY has put a fear of any sort into my mind, the concerns that I have were pieced together in my own mind by little ol me.

Basically ....

I genuinely would not wish to see the value of our pension(s) drop nor would I wish to see our grandchildren facing a bleak future regarding their employment prospects, both are real risks in MY opinion. Unlike some of you I deffo do not have a village / Island mentality that fears the strangers coming from a foreign land but I do agree that sensible restrictions will eventually need to be put in place.
You obviously have little faith in the entrepreneurial spirit of British business to be able to compete without being a member of the EU, shame on you.

The concept of European union was based on an idea put forward by Winston Churchill don'tcha know and every agreement has advocated Federalism even if you didn't read the small print.
You clearly did not read it all way through, WS was advocating a closer union of continental states to help avoid future conflict, he most certainly saw no place in this for the UK
Having a pound coin rather than a 1 euro piece in my pocket is meaningless if the pound coin buys less that the euro, the symbolism of English coins will surely become irrelevant once Her Maj is promoted to a higher place.
Whilst we retain sterling financial policy can be decided solely on what is best for the UK, the Euro zone needs to take account of the wider problems of all the EU countries. Do you think the German economy would still be languishing behind ours if they were not being constrained by the weaker member states in the Euro.
In reality I have more concerns about being governed by an opportunist buffoon like Boris than rumours of marauding Turks.

I can think of only one good reason for joining the Euro, and that is that it would make it a little easier for UK citizens when travelling abroad.
My other concern if we do have the b**ls to vote leave, is that once the markets realise how well the UK is performing outside the EU, the value of sterling will increase so much that our exports might suffer. However Germany coped quite well with this situation for many years before they joined the Euro, so I guess we could learn to manage it as well.

[Frank Manning]

With you all the way MOB!!
If that Mop haired twerp unseats Cameron as a result of his opportunistic support for this internecine Tory war, I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn. ....

Might as well cock things up totally; eh?

If Corbyn gets in, I for one hope he shuts down the Daily Wail. After all we have lost the Dandy and the Beano.

[Mervyn and Trish]

All power to the Guardian and the Mirror eh Frank? Nothing like unbiased papers is there!

Oh and a government that closed down parts of the press it didn't like. Now that is something to relish

[Dark Knight]

there is no such thing as unbiased newspapers, they all have an agenda, the daily wail is no worse than any other