EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Everybody? That's a sweeping statement and completely untrue.

[towny44]

QB, how do you know for certain our GDP would be smaller if we left, there is a lot of speculation from a whole host of so called experts, but they have been wrong so many times in the past.
Do you perhaps have a direct line to the man in charge?

Everybody, but everybody, agrees that if would reduce. Maybe even to a recession.

I would love Brexit to win if only to see you squirm when the UK enjoys a boom period, unfortunately it looks unlikely, if you believe the polls.

[towny44]

Our postal ballot papers arrived this morning, so we can place our votes before our 19th June cruise which means we will be away on June 23rd.
Any advice on how I should vote?

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'd vote stay Towny. QBob will tell you why.

Interesting that today's news is staying in will put pensions at risk.

Earlier this week leaving would put pensions at risk.

Perhaps the government intends raiding pensions, again, and is hedging its bets on excuses.

[johnds]

I just voted
Sorry QB I voted LEAVE

John

[Manoverboard]

... Interesting that today's news is staying in will put pensions at risk.

Earlier this week leaving would put pensions at risk.

Perhaps the government intends raiding pensions, again, and is hedging its bets on excuses.

I've been reading up about that .

Leaving will / could adversely affect the spending power of those living on a State pension ... so tis true I guess.

However ( as I understand it ) ...

The EU have been beavering away inventing rules n regs for the Insurance Companies etc to put monies to one side to prevent any likelihood of their not being able to stump up on maturity, this action will increase the price / reduce the benefit of annuities. UK inc have only introduced part of this requirement so far. That will adversely affect those who will ' eventually ' get a pension.

Worse is to follow in that they ( the EU beaurocrats ) also intend to impose the same rules, or a variation thereof, for final pension providers which will deffo affect the value of one's existing pensions of this type plus possible claw back percentage changes for anybody who excluded themselves from schemes like Serps. Final salary schemes are not set in concrete or at least part of them isn't, the taxation aspects can also be reviewed and revised at any time. Those of us with such schemes from the Private sector should be concerned about this, State Sector employees however are unaffected !!!

What does this mean ?

Mobietta and I are going to vote to LEAVE ... sod the grandchildren they can sort themselves out .


I am

[Mervyn and Trish]

My attitude at the start of this was I was inclined to out, but was willing to be convinced to vote in. But from the moment Dave delivered his Neville Chamberlain like piece of paper, through the hysterical fear mongering from the in campaign, I am more out than I started.

[Silver_Shiney]

I just voted
Sorry QB I voted LEAVE

John

YOU DID WHAT?? What are you, some sort of patriot?




Come the day, I'm doing the same

[oldbluefox]

Mobietta and I are going to vote to LEAVE ... sod the grandchildren they can sort themselves out .

I am

What?!!! Get well soon Mob.

[barney]

For those who have Sky, Dave will be questioned by the public, live on SkyNews at 8.00 pm, for an hour

Gove to follow tomorrow under the same conditions.

Wouldn't it be great if the had a dunk tank behind them for every question they tried to dodge.

Hopefully they will answer the public's questions instead of avoiding them !

[Silver_Shiney]

For those who have Sky, Dave will be questioned by the public, live on SkyNews at 8.00 pm, for an hour

Gove to follow tomorrow under the same conditions.

Wouldn't it be great if the had a dunk tank behind them for every question they tried to dodge.

Hopefully they will answer the public's questions instead of avoiding them !

Oh, come on, these are politicians!!! I wouldn't hold your breath.

[johnds]

For those who have Sky, Dave will be questioned by the public, live on SkyNews at 8.00 pm, for an hour

Gove to follow tomorrow under the same conditions.

Wouldn't it be great if the had a dunk tank behind them for every question they tried to dodge.

Hopefully they will answer the public's questions instead of avoiding them !

Not a chance
John

[Mervyn and Trish]

For me we're only just starting to get to the heart of the debate. For weeks they've been exchanging blows over the economy, a deliberate ploy by the remain lot to avoid the issues the electorate are most concerned about. And they, I believe, are the level of immigration and the pressure it is causing on housing and public services, and national sovereignty and the ability to control our own destiny. Someone tell me I'm wrong, but that is what I believe started this whole thing.

[Quizzical Bob]

For me we're only just starting to get to the heart of the debate. For weeks they've been exchanging blows over the economy, a deliberate ploy by the remain lot to avoid the issues the electorate are most concerned about. And they, I believe, are the level of immigration and the pressure it is causing on housing and public services, and national sovereignty and the ability to control our own destiny. Someone tell me I'm wrong, but that is what I believe started this whole thing.

You are right, the rise of UKIP was down to immigration. The real question is whether leaving the EU would make any difference, and I don't believe it would. We have had higher immigration because we have been in the EU but it does not follow that leaving the EU would result in lower immigration.

[david63]

There is an argument that says that in the short term (next couple of years) that immigration could rise due to EU migrants coming to the UK before we "shut the door"

[barney]

It's generally accepted that we need migrants

I don't think that's ever been an issue.

What we don't need is more fruit packers & unskilled labourers.

That is why we need to attempt to control who enters the country.

And these illegals rocking up on the Kent coastline has been going on for years, but only now is it making national news.
Finding truckloads is a daily occurrence down here.
17 just yesterday found in a truck in Ashford

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/new ... ned-96728/

[Silver_Shiney]

There is an argument that says that in the short term (next couple of years) that immigration could rise due to EU migrants coming to the UK before we "shut the door"

But if we decide, in a couple of weeks time, to say we leave, what's stopping us from shutting the door a fortnight tomorrow? (apart from the political will to do the right thing by this country, of course)

[david63]

But if we decide, in a couple of weeks time, to say we leave, what's stopping us from shutting the door a fortnight tomorrow?

The fact that we will still be in the EU for the length of time (stated to be around two years) it takes to disentangle us from the EU.

[Quizzical Bob]

There is an argument that says that in the short term (next couple of years) that immigration could rise due to EU migrants coming to the UK before we "shut the door"

But if we decide, in a couple of weeks time, to say we leave, what's stopping us from shutting the door a fortnight tomorrow? (apart from the political will to do the right thing by this country, of course)

There is all the legal business, and these would be British laws that would have to be changed. We would need to invoke article 50 and wait for a withdrawal agreement to be finalised and we would have no say in the timing of this. In the meantime all exisiting laws would still be in force.

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the ... rticle-50/

[towny44]

Bob, just read through the attachment and I am no wiser now than before! Mind you I don't believe the guy who wrote it is any wiser either!

[towny44]

The lunchtime news had a report of an Angela Merkel speech she gave about our referendum. She says we would be far better off staying in and having a seat at the negotiating table about the future direction of the EU, but won't those discussions be about further federalisation, and didn't Dave agree an opt out on this for the UK?
So why would we be bothered about having a seat at the table?

[Silver_Shiney]

There is an argument that says that in the short term (next couple of years) that immigration could rise due to EU migrants coming to the UK before we "shut the door"

But if we decide, in a couple of weeks time, to say we leave, what's stopping us from shutting the door a fortnight tomorrow? (apart from the political will to do the right thing by this country, of course)

There is all the legal business, and these would be British laws that would have to be changed. We would need to invoke article 50 and wait for a withdrawal agreement to be finalised and we would have no say in the timing of this. In the meantime all exisiting laws would still be in force.

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the ... rticle-50/

In other words, lack of political will

[oldbluefox]

Apparently the EU have been negotiating a trade deal with the US for the past 7 years. This news hardly fills me with hope that the EU is an efficient machine or that it will be any better if we remain. Still I suppose it has kept a few EMPs, civil servants and back room staff in employment.
I feel sure UK on its own could achieve its goal in less time than this, at a fraction of the cost.

[Quizzical Bob]

There is an argument that says that in the short term (next couple of years) that immigration could rise due to EU migrants coming to the UK before we "shut the door"

But if we decide, in a couple of weeks time, to say we leave, what's stopping us from shutting the door a fortnight tomorrow? (apart from the political will to do the right thing by this country, of course)

There is all the legal business, and these would be British laws that would have to be changed. We would need to invoke article 50 and wait for a withdrawal agreement to be finalised and we would have no say in the timing of this. In the meantime all exisiting laws would still be in force.

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the ... rticle-50/

In other words, lack of political will

On whose part?

[Mervyn and Trish]

For me we're only just starting to get to the heart of the debate. For weeks they've been exchanging blows over the economy, a deliberate ploy by the remain lot to avoid the issues the electorate are most concerned about. And they, I believe, are the level of immigration and the pressure it is causing on housing and public services, and national sovereignty and the ability to control our own destiny. Someone tell me I'm wrong, but that is what I believe started this whole thing.

You are right, the rise of UKIP was down to immigration. The real question is whether leaving the EU would make any difference, and I don't believe it would. We have had higher immigration because we have been in the EU but it does not follow that leaving the EU would result in lower immigration.

But it would be in our power to decide who is allowed in. I'm not against immigration. I'm against uncontrolled immigration. But the point of my post was that neither side has addressed the issue, probably because it's considered politically incorrect - remember Gordon Brown's bigot comment