EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[CaroleF]

A very interesting article by James Dyson in today's Telegraph - well worth a read. There's a canny business man and he's in no doubt that Britain would be better off outside the EU.

Carole

[Silver_Shiney]

Wasn't it EU red tape that drove him and his business out of the UK to start with?

[towny44]

Peter, if that doesn't get Qbob to respond then nothing will.
My postal vote has already been sent off, and its goodbye EU from me.

This kind of list just makes me mad.It is so selective that it is the epitome of misinformation. Why don't you compile a list of all the businesses that operate in the UK and sell to Europe? I'll start with Toyota at Burnaston near Derby which exports over 85% of its production to Europe. How long do you think that would last?

The real question is why nobody thinks it's worth making anything in Britain any more, and if anyone thinks that manufacturing will improve outside the EU then they are completely off their trolleys.

I really, really, really despair for our future.

It may be selective in outcomes but it certainly seems to be quite extensive in content, whereas yours was quite limited. You could of course have included Nissan in Sunderland, Honda in Swindon and Land Rover Jaguar, as well as JCB; but of course Lord Bamford as well as being a major manufacturer and exporter is a Brexit supporter, so maybe not.
I suspect you are reading far too much into the desperate attempts of the Remain group and their EU acolytes to frighten everyone into voting to stay Bob.

[oldbluefox]

Peter D, I had decided long ago which way I would vote if given the chance of a referendum. However what you have detailed just strengthens my resolve to get away from the EU as quickly as possible and face any short term upheaval because I know UK will be better off in the long run, with or without Scotland. I knew UK was being asset stripped but did not realise the extent. That came as quite an eye opener.

[Peter D]

Peter, if that doesn't get Qbob to respond then nothing will.
My postal vote has already been sent off, and its goodbye EU from me.

This kind of list just makes me mad. It is so selective that it is the epitome of misinformation. Why don't you compile a list of all the businesses that operate in the UK and sell to Europe? I'll start with Toyota at Burnaston near Derby which exports over 85% of its production to Europe. How long do you think that would last?

The real question is why nobody thinks it's worth making anything in Britain any more, and if anyone thinks that manufacturing will improve outside the EU then they are completely off their trolleys.

I really, really, really despair for our future.

You are right QB, a very selective list. But, they are UK companies who have either moved abroad or been bought by other countries with eu blessing.

So a task for you. Pick one other eu country, not them all only one other. Then compile the same list of their companies that have been bought by other countries, with eu blessing.

Then in case you do not know, Toyota is Japanese and moved here to get its hands on the European market without going through all the Red Tape that the eu threw in front of it. By producing in the UK it automatically opened the market up.

From Toyota's Case Study which is available on-line: Quote: Toyota's need for a European location came in 1992. The quotas and tariffs that had protected domestic car industries since the 1970's would be removed in January 1993 to create a 'Single European Market'. By locating a transplant in Burnaston, Toyota effectively became 'a European car manufacturer', and could therefore avoid paying the tariffs that still existed for countries outside the EU. Toyota's previous problem was that it could not supply enough cars to meet demand in Europe due to quotas restricting the number of cars that could be manufactured. In 1992, they were able to overcome this by moving the manufacture of the more popular models to the Burnaston plant. The less popular models were still produced in Japan. unquote

Proof the the eu puts that much red tape and taxes on companies, Honda, Nissan etc included, that are outside the eu they need to find other ways of dealing with them. If the UK were outside the eu there would be no Red Tape and maybe we would be able to lower the taxes on these companies.

[Silver_Shiney]

Peter, I think you are wasting your time. Bob talks the talk as you do, but unlike you, he gives no concrete evidence to back up the arguments. Thank you, again, for bringing these facts to our attention - although in my case, it made no difference, I'm voting out anyway!

[Mervyn and Trish]

QBob is of course fully entitled to his viewpoint, as are we all. And I make no secret my position is based on wanting to regain control of our borders and who has and has not the legal right to come here, and to bring the final arbiters of law and legislation back within our borders.

To fully understand QBob's position I'd invite him to honestly answer two questions.

1. What proportion of his business involves exports to the EU?

2. What proportion of his workforce (percentage or headcount) are EU nationals from other countries on minimum wage or lower?

Of course he is entirely entitled to decline to answer, though that possibly would be an answer in itself

[johnds]

I see that the chairman of BT with the support of the unions has written to their 80,000 ? employees re supporting Remain

I wonder if that includes all the staff they employ in the call centres in India etc

If they cared about the U.K. they wouldn't have exported our jobs to the East

[Golden Princess]

Another naive question. (please be gentle I freely admit I do not know what I am talking about!) ........... Just if ......we leave and if Scotland remains or joins EU

How do we control the boarders between Eire (EU) and Northern Ireland (non EU) and the boarder between Scotland (EU )and (non EU) England?

[Silver_Shiney]

Not a naïve question at all, it's point I've already posited.

I have no idea what the answer is

[Golden Princess]

Sorry, missed that. I try to keep up with this thread.

[Silver_Shiney]

Sorry, missed that. I try to keep up with this thread.

Nothing to apologise for, thanks for bringing it back to the fore!

[towny44]

Attached is a brief summary extract from a referendum outcome note sent by a financial adviser. I think it very clearly outlines that although the event might trigger shock waves, the waters will settle down eventually.

"With the UK’s referendum vote on whether or not to remain in the EU almost upon us, this note looks at the impact that BREXIT could potentially have on client portfolios. The market risks may seem material, but they are mitigated by the ownership of robustly structured, well-diversified portfolios. The key is to stay calm in the face of market uncertainty. ‘This too shall pass’ as the investment sage John Bogle has said many times before at other seemingly concerning times."

[Mervyn and Trish]

That seems to be a common theme. A lot of Project Fear's claims are about short term shock. There'll probably be similar shock if we stay in as the EU commissioners laugh as they tear up CMD's deal.

[oldbluefox]

It was reported that all of Cameron's reforms could be vetoed so what value do they have?
And now Osborne is getting concerned (lol!!) that the weakest in our society will suffer most from Brexit. Since when has he (or any of the political elite for that matter) worried about the weakest in our society? The truth is we have tried Remain and from what I have seen we are no better off.
Somebody (pro Remain) on Facebook tagged me to show the EU had contributed 1,000,000 Euros towards the tram network in Blackpool. The irony of that was the trams were built by Bombardier in........................... Bautzen, Germany and Vienna, Austria. So they refund part of our contribution to their funds which is then used to keep others in the EU in employment. I don't think people realise how much our manufacturing industry has been decimated or how much has been leeched abroad. The EU is not working in the UK's best interests at all from what I see.

I have listened to the Remain argument but despite the scaremongering (from both sides) in the long term we will be better out of the EU, in my opinion. Once we leave others will follow.

[Silver_Shiney]

As a leaflet that came in this morning asked "if we were not members of the EU at this time, would we vote to join?"

I don't think so.

[towny44]

I watched Digby Jones (leave) on Daily Politics today as he savaged Labour's Rachel Reeves (remain), if the leave campaign could persuade him to join their ranks he could be the decisive final push to guarantee a leave vote.

[Silver_Shiney]

Am I missing something here? If the leave campaign could persuade "Digby Jones (leave)" to join them....??

[towny44]

Am I missing something here? If the leave campaign could persuade "Digby Jones (leave)" to join them....??

He is not an official spokesman for the leave campaign, merely a supporter, if he were part of the official team he would have a much higher profile.

[Silver_Shiney]

Am I missing something here? If the leave campaign could persuade "Digby Jones (leave)" to join them....??

He is not an official spokesman for the leave campaign, merely a supporter, if he were part of the official team he would have a much higher profile.

Ah! Thank you for the clarification, sir

[Mervyn and Trish]

Am I missing something here? If the leave campaign could persuade "Digby Jones (leave)" to join them....??

He is not an official spokesman for the leave campaign, merely a supporter, if he were part of the official team he would have a much higher profile.

Ah! Thank you for the clarification, sir

It's the only thing that has been clarified in this debate!

I see old Junker had been saying the UK leaving will bring fire and brimstone to the entire western world, or something similarly dramatic. In that case the mystery to me is why they determinedly blocked anything which might have tempted the UK electorate to remain. Thought we were crying wolf I suppose?

[towny44]

I think DC made a mistake having the referendum after the negotiations, if it had been first with a "we will leave unless you meet all our demands", he might have got a better deal.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I have seen that it is only "advisory" and not legally binding, so I still wonder if there'll be further wrangling if we vote out to try to re-negotiate / overthrow the result / make us vote again (the usual democratic EU way!)

Too late now to try to convince me now anyway, our postal votes went this morning.

[qbman1]

I'm not sure how much more of this nonsense I can take !!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... it-flotil/

[Silver_Shiney]

It's becoming very puerile on both sides.

My daughter's got the right idea - emigrate