EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[screwy]

Getting sick and tired of all the bleating and prophets of doom. Wether you believed all the arguements from each side or not this was Democracy at it's best..a free vote. One side wins..to the losers ..accept it and get on with it

[Gill W]

Ah Gill. That's the populist way. Rubbish anyone who disagrees with you but don't offer real alternatives. Did I read today Farage is saying the £350M slogan was a mistake?....hang on a minute it was all over the Brexit Bus Nige.

We want a new hospital every week now. Oh! wait a minute, no foreigners allowed in either, so we cant staff them.

Nobody - NOBODY - has said "no foreigners allowed in". All we want in controlled immigration, so we choose who can come in to work and contribute to our country. What we don't want (and cannot afford or sustain) is an open door policy where people are free to come here (from anywhere in the world) and abuse our benefits system, overload the NHS and general creaking infrastructure. Yes, some eastern Europeans have come here to work in low paid jobs (because some of our home grown youth can't be bothered to get out of bed) - but their wages are probably too low for them to pay tax, so while they are working, they're not contributing.

Immigration has always happened in this country, and no doubt always will. As you say some people have come here to so the jobs the Brits won't do.

Maybe they don't pay much in tax, but it's very harsh to say they're not contributing.

When my mum had to go into a care home, most of the care staff were from overseas, mostly Eastern Europe or Africa. They cared for her with kindness and devotion, and visited her in hospital during her final illness and came to her funeral. I will never forget their contribution to my mum's welfare and how they made the last few years of her life a bit more bearable.

I would much rather have people like that care for a loved one, rather than a bored home grown youth with no interest in their job and who would rather be spending their time checking Facebook on their mobile

[oldbluefox]

I agree with the valuable contribution being made by our Eastern European and Asian immigrants. The problem with immigration is the fact it is uncontrolled and over the years has lacked integration into British society leading to a Little India/Pakistan etc in many areas ands suspicion of one for the other. However you only have to look in our hospitals, as one example, to see the contribution they make.
I always find the Eastern Europeans I have come across in hotels and restaurants polite, friendly and attentive and our young people could learn a lot from them.
We can blame interference from political do-gooders for causing disharmony where none exists - banning Christmas Nativities in case we offend our Muslim neighbours being a good example.

I find an irony that those from the left of the political divide espouse the rights of man to live in a democracy and fiercely protects those rights. However it is they who are shouting loudest when the vote goes against them. Seems like you can have rights but we will kick and scream if you don't use them as we want them used.

[Silver_Shiney]

When I said they "don't contribute" I thought it obvious I meant in terms of tax....

[Not so ancient mariner]

We have just got back from a Charter Night meal at the local rotary Club. In view of yesterday's referendum, we had a prize quiz (obviously compiled before the result was known) on the subject of Europe This consisted of 40 questions, of which I knew the answers to a mere 20.

Yet that was enough to get me second prize, and even the winner managed only 22!

[Not so ancient mariner]

I find an irony that those from the left of the political divide espouse the rights of man to live in a democracy and fiercely protects those rights. However it is they who are shouting loudest when the vote goes against them.

Don't they always?

[Frank Manning]

It is the total hypocrisy of a bus saying £350M per week, and a poster which at best is racist being used to sway people, then suddenly it is a "mistake" that I loathe. It was xenophobic whether you like it or not. Person after person has appeared in TV interviews after the vote to say "It was the immigration for me". Sorry guys, you will get what you asked for, and God help common decency and common sense. The Sky break down of the voting patterns was revealing. The young and the better educated voted remain. As one who has been sneered at for being academic by the middle class pretentious snobs in this area, I know only too well their thinking patterns....not pretty at all.

[Not so ancient mariner]

Voting with balls vs voting with brain??

[Frank Manning]

Which reminds me. We once had a Marketing Manager who was a serial womaniser, and one of my Area Sales Managers used to say "B....'s brains are in his ba*ls". Oh for the fun of those lost days. Six friends going back over 55 years have died this year. I keep looking over my shoulder for the grim reaper stalking me.

[Boris+]

Well, I must admit that on one hand I'm saddened by the result of the vote. On the other hand, they say that the people who voted to leave were the 'oldies' - so, that therefore makes me a 'young un'. Whoopee. Currently, that's the only 'joy' I can find in this unfortunate situation.

[Peter D]

My final thought on the subjest.

It has now been 24hrs since we awoke to the news that the leave had won. Yes, I think a shock to many.

So, what has happened, the pound and markets dropped, that was expected. However, the pound is now higher than it was in February, yes still down on May, but still up. The markets are still down 2% on the week, but has analysts have said this morning 2% on a week is not too bad. So, no Armageddon there.

Regarding the result. It seems that the British people have put their future before money. All this doom and gloom, Armageddon and we will loose Billions from the Government, Finance and Business leaders if we leave and guess what. The British public took it all in, thought about it and said. So what, we would prefer to be Governed from the UK and not Brussels.

On Brussels. They must sit back and look at themselves. How could it happen that one of their strongest countries has decided to leave its club. The majority of the blame lies at their door on the way they want to expand their control over countries. Then think about this. If you were so happy with the renegotiation that our prime minister had agreed with you then why wait until after the vote. If you had ratified it before the vote it could have been a very very different result. So, you must take part of the blame.

On the result. If the remain had won, they would expect the leave voters to accept the result and work with the Government to move forward and build a new relationship with the EU. But all I am hearing at the moment is still negative and threatening moves from remain against the leave voters. Sorry, now is the time for you to accept the result and work with the leave to work towards a better Britain.

Now, what next. It looks like that the Government had no plan B. Sorry if you are going to ask the public which direction they want to go, then you need plans for both routes just in case. You do not put all your eggs in one basket and try and bully your way to the results you want.

For myself. I am optimistic, yes there is going to be uncertainty, yes there will be turmoil, but I believe in this country, I believe in the British people and I believe we can move forward and become a great country with trading partners all over the world.

[Raybosailor]

It will be a rocky ride for a bit. But there is another side to this generation argument. The older generation who rely on shares for their incomes and pensions will undoubtedly suffer straight away. So how can they have let the younger generation down? I liken their action to that they took in the wars of the last century, when they made painful decisions without any thought for themselves, even giving their lives, for the benefit of future generations. A admirable sentiment that some of the younger generation don't seem to have grasped yet, much less give the older generation credit for. These days young couples want everything now when they move in together, some even getting into debt for it. They don't seem to be able to look into the future and consider the repercussions of their actions. Sometimes you have to go though the tough times to create a secure future.

Well said Ann, the lyrics of the Queen song sum it up "I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now".

I "married" Cheryl at the age of 21 (she was just 18) and we had nothing but a couple of second hand chairs, a second hand table and a second hand bed. We rented a 1 bed flat and we didn't get any housing benefit or other state handouts, our bank account was a number of jars with labels like gas, electric and rent. We had to work hard and save for anything we wanted and holidays were something we only dreamed of.

Now we are retired the younger generation want to know why we are able to run two cars and go on luxury holidays several times a year. This answer is "WE BLOODY WORKED FOR THEM" and we didn't do it on credit apart from a sensible "affordable" mortgage on our house.

The pensions we receive are the result of 50 years hard graft and financial planning not the financial suicide that the young of today seem to be comfortable with.

[Onelife]

It is the total hypocrisy of a bus saying £350M per week, and a poster which at best is racist being used to sway people, then suddenly it is a "mistake" that I loathe. It was xenophobic whether you like it or not. Person after person has appeared in TV interviews after the vote to say "It was the immigration for me". Sorry guys, you will get what you asked for, and God help common decency and common sense. The Sky break down of the voting patterns was revealing. The young and the better educated voted remain. As one who has been sneered at for being academic by the middle class pretentious snobs in this area, I know only too well their thinking patterns....not pretty at all.

.............

Hi Frank.....given the demographic pattern of voting it would appear most of the young and better educated live in either London or Scotland....this surely can't be true can it?

Regards

Keith

[Gill W]

It is the total hypocrisy of a bus saying £350M per week, and a poster which at best is racist being used to sway people, then suddenly it is a "mistake" that I loathe. It was xenophobic whether you like it or not. Person after person has appeared in TV interviews after the vote to say "It was the immigration for me". Sorry guys, you will get what you asked for, and God help common decency and common sense. The Sky break down of the voting patterns was revealing. The young and the better educated voted remain. As one who has been sneered at for being academic by the middle class pretentious snobs in this area, I know only too well their thinking patterns....not pretty at all.

Yes, I thought the voting patterns were interesting too.
The poorly educated and the old are often the people who feel they have no voice and that government and the establishment in general aren't interested in them.

There's a theory that these people weren't voting leave as such, but we're using the referendum to vote against the establishment in general, seeing it as their one opportunity to be heard.

But, what's done is done, and we are to leave the Eu. I think Boris J and his leave cronies need to get on with it now, and not prevaricate. I saw Boris on TV this morning saying there's no rush. Strange really, now his side has won you think he'd be jumping up and down wanting to get on with it!

Can't help wondering if he's now thinking 'just what the hell I've got myself into..... I didn't think Leave would actually win!'

[oldbluefox]

My final thought on the subjest.

It has now been 24hrs since we awoke to the news that the leave had won. Yes, I think a shock to many.

So, what has happened, the pound and markets dropped, that was expected. However, the pound is now higher than it was in February, yes still down on May, but still up. The markets are still down 2% on the week, but has analysts have said this morning 2% on a week is not too bad. So, no Armageddon there.

Regarding the result. It seems that the British people have put their future before money. All this doom and gloom, Armageddon and we will loose Billions from the Government, Finance and Business leaders if we leave and guess what. The British public took it all in, thought about it and said. So what, we would prefer to be Governed from the UK and not Brussels.

On Brussels. They must sit back and look at themselves. How could it happen that one of their strongest countries has decided to leave its club. The majority of the blame lies at their door on the way they want to expand their control over countries. Then think about this. If you were so happy with the renegotiation that our prime minister had agreed with you then why wait until after the vote. If you had ratified it before the vote it could have been a very very different result. So, you must take part of the blame.

On the result. If the remain had won, they would expect the leave voters to accept the result and work with the Government to move forward and build a new relationship with the EU. But all I am hearing at the moment is still negative and threatening moves from remain against the leave voters. Sorry, now is the time for you to accept the result and work with the leave to work towards a better Britain.

Now, what next. It looks like that the Government had no plan B. Sorry if you are going to ask the public which direction they want to go, then you need plans for both routes just in case. You do not put all your eggs in one basket and try and bully your way to the results you want.

For myself. I am optimistic, yes there is going to be uncertainty, yes there will be turmoil, but I believe in this country, I believe in the British people and I believe we can move forward and become a great country with trading partners all over the world.

[allatc]

Peter D
D

[Raybosailor]

My final thought on the subjest.

It has now been 24hrs since we awoke to the news that the leave had won. Yes, I think a shock to many.

So, what has happened, the pound and markets dropped, that was expected. However, the pound is now higher than it was in February, yes still down on May, but still up. The markets are still down 2% on the week, but has analysts have said this morning 2% on a week is not too bad. So, no Armageddon there.

Regarding the result. It seems that the British people have put their future before money. All this doom and gloom, Armageddon and we will loose Billions from the Government, Finance and Business leaders if we leave and guess what. The British public took it all in, thought about it and said. So what, we would prefer to be Governed from the UK and not Brussels.

On Brussels. They must sit back and look at themselves. How could it happen that one of their strongest countries has decided to leave its club. The majority of the blame lies at their door on the way they want to expand their control over countries. Then think about this. If you were so happy with the renegotiation that our prime minister had agreed with you then why wait until after the vote. If you had ratified it before the vote it could have been a very very different result. So, you must take part of the blame.

On the result. If the remain had won, they would expect the leave voters to accept the result and work with the Government to move forward and build a new relationship with the EU. But all I am hearing at the moment is still negative and threatening moves from remain against the leave voters. Sorry, now is the time for you to accept the result and work with the leave to work towards a better Britain.

Now, what next. It looks like that the Government had no plan B. Sorry if you are going to ask the public which direction they want to go, then you need plans for both routes just in case. You do not put all your eggs in one basket and try and bully your way to the results you want.

For myself. I am optimistic, yes there is going to be uncertainty, yes there will be turmoil, but I believe in this country, I believe in the British people and I believe we can move forward and become a great country with trading partners all over the world.

And applause from me too Peter

[poole boy]

I to really would like to congratulate peter on a very well written post.
graham

[oldbluefox]

The demographics of the voting pattern show that Scotland, Northern Ireland and London were Remain strongholds. Coincidentally they were the areas which had benefited most from the EU so it is natural that they should be keen to maintain the status quo. I don't blame them.
This is not reflected in other parts of the country where people feel disenfranchised and ignored by central government, and whilst suffering the disadvantages of our membership of the EU they are denied the benefits. The EU is seen as a rich man's club which benefits the wealthy and privileged.
Maybe if the politicians had listened and not chosen to ignore them as being uneducated, ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic, racist etc we would not have the deep divisions which exist in our society today.

[Dark Knight]

it is sad to see the remain devotees are stooping to name calling on here and inferring those that voted remain are less educated ,less socially aware or bigoted racists and not aware of the ramifications of the leave vote
it is also sad to see the remain voters cannot accept a gracious defeat and look to the future, if this is the calibre of people who voted to remain, it is little wonder that the majority voted to leave.
the moneyed educated elite are solely responsible for disenfranchising the rest of the country and now they are reaping what they sowed

[Raybosailor]

It was not surprising that Gibraltar voted 96% against leaving the EU as only 12% of the population are of British origin anyway.
Gibraltar has enjoyed the protection of Britain for hundreds of years whilst still being self governing and enjoying a very favourable tax system compared to us in the UK.

Spain will be knocking on the door of Gib again and trying to claw away at a very attractive micro economy.

[Golden Princess]

So Spain is looking for Gib, France wants to move the borders from Calais, Scotland wants to go independent and remain in the Eu, NI will possibly go into the EU, London (where all the money is and money talks) want to go too. So we could be left with England and Wales and Wales will be looking to England to replace their EU grants, if they dont want to go to as well! So no Great Britain, no UK. Just little England, minus London. And how long before Argentina make waves towards the Falklands. Does no one else find this scenario scary, or will I just be accused of scaremongering?

[Silver_Shiney]

My final thought on the subjest.

It has now been 24hrs since we awoke to the news that the leave had won. Yes, I think a shock to many.

So, what has happened, the pound and markets dropped, that was expected. However, the pound is now higher than it was in February, yes still down on May, but still up. The markets are still down 2% on the week, but has analysts have said this morning 2% on a week is not too bad. So, no Armageddon there.i

Regarding the result. It seems that the British people have put their future before money. All this doom and gloom, Armageddon and we will loose Billions from the Government, Finance and Business leaders if we leave and guess what. The British public took it all in, thought about it and said. So what, we would prefer to be Governed from the UK and not Brussels.

On Brussels. They must sit back and look at themselves. How could it happen that one of their strongest countries has decided to leave its club. The majority of the blame lies at their door on the way they want to expand their control over countries. Then think about this. If you were so happy with the renegotiation that our prime minister had agreed with you then why wait until after the vote. If you had ratified it before the vote it could have been a very very different result. So, you must take part of the blame.

On the result. If the remain had won, they would expect the leave voters to accept the result and work with the Government to move forward and build a new relationship with the EU. But all I am hearing at the moment is still negative and threatening moves from remain against the leave voters. Sorry, now is the time for you to accept the result and work with the leave to work towards a better Britain.

Now, what next. It looks like that the Government had no plan B. Sorry if you are going to ask the public which direction they want to go, then you need plans for both routes just in case. You do not put all your eggs in one basket and try and bully your way to the results you want.

For myself. I am optimistic, yes there is going to be uncertainty, yes there will be turmoil, but I believe in this country, I believe in the British people and I believe we can move forward and become a great country with trading partners all over the world.

VERY well said, sir

[Stephen]

My final thought on the subjest.

It has now been 24hrs since we awoke to the news that the leave had won. Yes, I think a shock to many.

So, what has happened, the pound and markets dropped, that was expected. However, the pound is now higher than it was in February, yes still down on May, but still up. The markets are still down 2% on the week, but has analysts have said this morning 2% on a week is not too bad. So, no Armageddon there.

Regarding the result. It seems that the British people have put their future before money. All this doom and gloom, Armageddon and we will loose Billions from the Government, Finance and Business leaders if we leave and guess what. The British public took it all in, thought about it and said. So what, we would prefer to be Governed from the UK and not Brussels.

On Brussels. They must sit back and look at themselves. How could it happen that one of their strongest countries has decided to leave its club. The majority of the blame lies at their door on the way they want to expand their control over countries. Then think about this. If you were so happy with the renegotiation that our prime minister had agreed with you then why wait until after the vote. If you had ratified it before the vote it could have been a very very different result. So, you must take part of the blame.

On the result. If the remain had won, they would expect the leave voters to accept the result and work with the Government to move forward and build a new relationship with the EU. But all I am hearing at the moment is still negative and threatening moves from remain against the leave voters. Sorry, now is the time for you to accept the result and work with the leave to work towards a better Britain.

Now, what next. It looks like that the Government had no plan B. Sorry if you are going to ask the public which direction they want to go, then you need plans for both routes just in case. You do not put all your eggs in one basket and try and bully your way to the results you want.

For myself. I am optimistic, yes there is going to be uncertainty, yes there will be turmoil, but I believe in this country, I believe in the British people and I believe we can move forward and become a great country with trading partners all over the world.

And applause from me too Peter

Couldn't have put it better myself Peter. Ever thought of throwing your hat into the mix for PM.

[anniec]

The young and the better educated voted remain.

That's a rather sweeping statement. My mother, brothers, sisters-in-law, husband and I are all graduates. Most of our friends likewise. We all voted out.