EU referendum - Stay or Leave?

[oldbluefox]

You just love locking things up screwy!!!

[johnds]

Pesonally i think it's time this topic was put to bed, weve had the Ballot, result is in wether it's to your liking or not, lets move on.

I'll vote for that !!

[Silver_Shiney]

Ray, Frank, QBob - suppose, just suppose, that Remain won and Brexiteers started bitching about the need for annulment and a second referendum. Would you entertain such a notion, or would you remind us that it was democracy in action and expect us to get used to it?

[Stephen]

And finally .....

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[Ray Scully]

Ray, Frank, QBob - suppose, just suppose, that Remain won and Brexiteers started bitching about the need for annulment and a second referendum. Would you entertain such a notion, or would you remind us that it was democracy in action and expect us to get used to it?

Frankly SS it would appear at the moment, apart from a £1800 drop in my equities, which may come back, that it is unlikely to effect me in a big way.
I am part of the 'golden generations' who have seen their house values rise enormously, have a DB pension, and was fortunate in retiring early. So in voting I did not in anyway consider what effect it would have on me.It was purely the effect it would have on my children and grandchildren generations. Why am i still upset? well the answer is that they were deceived into believing that immigration (which is a problem) would be dramatically reduced, it won't ( Daniel Hannan) the rules may be changed but the numbers will always be dependent on the workers required in the UK economy, and then there was the NHS logo on the Brexit bus and the inference that a large pot of the rebate would go to the NHS, according to Mr Farage it wont.
Two many people of my generation adopt the attitude of "I'm on the bus jack ring the bell' it saddens me intensely

[Gill W]

Pesonally i think it's time this topic was put to bed, weve had the Ballot, result is in wether it's to your liking or not, lets move on.

The Leave result of the ballot means this is just the beginning.

The democratic voice of the people advises the government that they want BREXIT.

As a result of this, we need a new PM, who will then have to work out how they want to negotiate the leaving process. This will take ages, due to the fact no one had thought about what the plan would be if it was a Leave vote.

Then they'll prevaricate about invoking article 50.

Then the leaving red tape will go on for years

It'll be well into the 2020's by the time we leave.

Then we'll more than likely have the Scots wanting independence, Northern Ireland wanting to leave the UK to unite with Ireland, and the Welsh wanting an independence referendum because they don't want to be left out of the action.

It would have been easier to move on from a Remain vote, as the status quo would have been maintained, and there wouldn't have been this domino effect that'll drag on for ever and a day.

[Frank Manning]

I am not in the mood to be conciliatory. There is chaos in my country, and as Gill says it will continue for some time now. I lived through the chaos of Labour under Wilson, Callaghan and Michael Foot. The miners strikes, the three day week of Ted Heath, rubbish in the streets, power cuts, Red Robbo in the car factory. That was replaced by the abrasive and divisive darling of the right, Thatcher with her stupid "We are going to be a service economy". Poll tax, and confrontation. Just as John Major seemed to be getting things right the Tory loonies started all over again and then we had smug smarmy Blair and glowering Brown running up massive national debt. Now another centre-ist Tory has had to fall on his sword, and we may get buffoon Boris, while some of those who voted Leave are already saying they 'now realise they made a mistake'. What a mess, God help us, we certainly don't help ourselves.

[Raybosailor]

I agree with Screwy this wants putting to bed, the vote is cast and we have to make it work.

There have been a few remarks as why the votes went the way they did ranging from the oldies have stuffed the young to the better off or better educated voted in and the poor and dim voted out.
Looking at the voting statistics which are 100% accurate the only overwhelming remain votes in my opinion came from :

Scotland the we want out of Britain until our North Sea resources run out brigade.
Northern Ireland we don't know if we want to be British or European like our neighbours.
Gibraltar we have had it so good for years with a foot in both camps.
London borough's like Chelsea and Windsor, we are the rich and Europe sends the money our way first.

If England voted as one nation the out vote would have won by a landslide.

As for the age gap the polls say that the only big gaps between in and out were the 18-24's in by 73% and the over 65's out by 60% but by the time the voting age reaches 36 it is 50% either way then the out vote takes over.
So please don't blame it on the oldies put it down to people growing up with a few life experiences by the time they reach 36.

[Ray Scully]

I agree with Screwy this wants putting to bed, the vote is cast and we have to make it work.

There have been a few remarks as why the votes went the way they did ranging from the oldies have stuffed the young to the better off or better educated voted in and the poor and dim voted out.
Looking at the voting statistics which are 100% accurate the only overwhelming remain votes in my opinion came from :

Scotland the we want out of Britain until our North Sea resources run out brigade.
Northern Ireland we don't know if we want to be British or European like our neighbours.
Gibraltar we have had it so good for years with a foot in both camps.
London borough's like Chelsea and Windsor, we are the rich and Europe sends the money our way first.

If England voted as one nation the out vote would have won by a landslide.

As for the age gap the polls say that the only big gaps between in and out were the 18-24's in by 73% and the over 65's out by 60% but by the time the voting age reaches 36 it is 50% either way then the out vote takes over.
So please don't blame it on the oldies put it down to people growing up with a few life experiences by the time they reach 36.

Rather than older peoples judgement and actions being down to life experience. Sadly for too many its a matter of narrow self interest. Recently I was berated by the older members of our community for supporting a new development of 50 houses in the village that we have lived in for approaching 50 years, which by the way has grown only by 15% to nearly 2000 in that time. It seemed that the status quo was all that mattered to them, not sharing our village with a few more families.

[anniec]

I agree with Screwy this wants putting to bed, the vote is cast and we have to make it work.

There have been a few remarks as why the votes went the way they did ranging from the oldies have stuffed the young to the better off or better educated voted in and the poor and dim voted out.
Looking at the voting statistics which are 100% accurate the only overwhelming remain votes in my opinion came from :

Scotland the we want out of Britain until our North Sea resources run out brigade.
Northern Ireland we don't know if we want to be British or European like our neighbours.
Gibraltar we have had it so good for years with a foot in both camps.
London borough's like Chelsea and Windsor, we are the rich and Europe sends the money our way first.

If England voted as one nation the out vote would have won by a landslide.

As for the age gap the polls say that the only big gaps between in and out were the 18-24's in by 73% and the over 65's out by 60% but by the time the voting age reaches 36 it is 50% either way then the out vote takes over.
So please don't blame it on the oldies put it down to people growing up with a few life experiences by the time they reach 36.

Rather than older peoples judgement and actions being down to life experience. Sadly for too many its a matter of narrow self interest. Recently I was berated by the older members of our community for supporting a new development of 50 houses in the village that we have lived in for approaching 50 years, which by the way has grown only by 15% to nearly 2000 in that time. It seemed that the status quo was all that mattered to them, not sharing our village with a few more families.

Had more of the young been self interested enough to roll out of bed and vote, Remain would have won...

[Silver_Shiney]

Ray, Frank, QBob - suppose, just suppose, that Remain won and Brexiteers started bitching about the need for annulment and a second referendum. Would you entertain such a notion, or would you remind us that it was democracy in action and expect us to get used to it?

Frankly SS it would appear at the moment, apart from a £1800 drop in my equities, which may come back, that it is unlikely to effect me in a big way.
I am part of the 'golden generations' who have seen their house values rise enormously, have a DB pension, and was fortunate in retiring early. So in voting I did not in anyway consider what effect it would have on me.It was purely the effect it would have on my children and grandchildren generations. Why am i still upset? well the answer is that they were deceived into believing that immigration (which is a problem) would be dramatically reduced, it won't ( Daniel Hannan) the rules may be changed but the numbers will always be dependent on the workers required in the UK economy, and then there was the NHS logo on the Brexit bus and the inference that a large pot of the rebate would go to the NHS, according to Mr Farage it wont.
Two many people of my generation adopt the attitude of "I'm on the bus jack ring the bell' it saddens me intensely

A politician's response - you did not answer the question

[qbman1]

Ray, Frank, QBob - suppose, just suppose, that Remain won and Brexiteers started bitching about the need for annulment and a second referendum. Would you entertain such a notion, or would you remind us that it was democracy in action and expect us to get used to it?

Frankly SS it would appear at the moment, apart from a £1800 drop in my equities, which may come back, that it is unlikely to effect me in a big way.
I am part of the 'golden generations' who have seen their house values rise enormously, have a DB pension, and was fortunate in retiring early. So in voting I did not in anyway consider what effect it would have on me.It was purely the effect it would have on my children and grandchildren generations. Why am i still upset? well the answer is that they were deceived into believing that immigration (which is a problem) would be dramatically reduced, it won't ( Daniel Hannan) the rules may be changed but the numbers will always be dependent on the workers required in the UK economy, and then there was the NHS logo on the Brexit bus and the inference that a large pot of the rebate would go to the NHS, according to Mr Farage it wont.
Two many people of my generation adopt the attitude of "I'm on the bus jack ring the bell' it saddens me intensely

A politician's response - you did not answer the question

That's because we already know the answer, SS !

[Silver_Shiney]

I know, Cubie, just want to hear them admit it

[towny44]

I believe that a large number of Remain voters were probably eurosceptics but were frightened into voting to stay by the Remain rhetoric, so all the talk of a divided nation is a bit over the top. If the vote had been would you like to leave the EU ,without the threats, the majority would have been far greater.

[Frank Manning]

I believe that a large number of Remain voters were probably eurosceptics but were frightened into voting to stay by the Remain rhetoric, so all the talk of a divided nation is a bit over the top. If the vote had been would you like to leave the EU ,without the threats, the majority would have been far greater.

Dont speak for me on that one Towny. I have heard lots of interviewees regretting their decision to vote leave, and saying "It was about immigration". Well some of the Leave leaders are back tracking on that already. I voted Remain purely on my experience of being a Project Sales Engineer in high value export engineering projects, and on being a business graduate. (Also; loathing the Tory right wing aka Boris etc and everything they stand for.) I will admit to wanting to get rid of Jean Claude Junker, I still do.

Boris has got what he wanted any way;Cameron out. Now he has got to put up or shut up. I see the Brexiteers are prevaricating like mad and disagreeing already.

[Raybosailor]

My last post on this subject is.

I am sick of hearing the young slating the so called oldie vote to come out and stitching their future up.
All the young people I have spoken to or listened to on media were all talking about how the vote would effect me, me,me.
My vote was for the future and hopefully security of the future generations of the country I love, yes my vote was for you the younger generation of this nation. I would like to think that I like many others of my generation helped to make Britain the wonderful, democratic and prosperous nation you now live in.

Being a retired person living off a pension that I worked hard for 50 years to receive I know times may get tough in the coming years for pensioners and workers alike but as in previous times of turmoil I hope you young ones rise to the occasion as we and our predecessors did before us.

Its time to stop moaning and get on with making a nation to be proud of again.

MY VOTE WAS FOR YOU

[oldbluefox]

I see the Brexiteers are prevaricating like mad and disagreeing already.

This one isn't Frank!! There will always be those in the 'don't blame me' camp. Meanwhile the politicians on both sides are heavily into the blame game and tearing each other apart and the media are desperately trying to whip up a storm.
George Osborne gave a very measured speech this morning but that wasn't enough for the media who like to make a drama out of anything they can pick up on. What was reported had little relevance to what was actually said. Fortunately I don't believe too much of what they say any more than I believed the exaggerated claims of Brexit or Remain.

[oldbluefox]

My last post on this subject is.

I am sick of hearing the young slating the so called oldie vote to come out and stitching their future up.
All the young people I have spoken to or listened to on media were all talking about how the vote would effect me, me,me.
My vote was for the future and hopefully security of the future generations of the country I love, yes my vote was for you the younger generation of this nation. I would like to think that I like many others of my generation helped to make Britain the wonderful, democratic and prosperous nation you now live in.

Being a retired person living off a pension that I worked hard for 50 years to receive I know times may get tough in the coming years for pensioners and workers alike but as in previous times of turmoil I hope you young ones rise to the occasion as we and our predecessors did before us.

Its time to stop moaning and get on with making a nation to be proud of again.

MY VOTE WAS FOR YOU

[qbman1]

My last post on this subject is.

I am sick of hearing the young slating the so called oldie vote to come out and stitching their future up.
All the young people I have spoken to or listened to on media were all talking about how the vote would effect me, me,me.
My vote was for the future and hopefully security of the future generations of the country I love, yes my vote was for you the younger generation of this nation. I would like to think that I like many others of my generation helped to make Britain the wonderful, democratic and prosperous nation you now live in.

Being a retired person living off a pension that I worked hard for 50 years to receive I know times may get tough in the coming years for pensioners and workers alike but as in previous times of turmoil I hope you young ones rise to the occasion as we and our predecessors did before us.

Its time to stop moaning and get on with making a nation to be proud of again.

MY VOTE WAS FOR YOU

One bright little snowflake was interviewed at Glastonbury over the weekend. She was "distraught" at the outcome but admitted she didn't vote in the referendum. She thought she would be able to vote at Glastonbury - "I've brought me poll card and everyfink" !! I'm not sure any of us have a future with idiots like that coming up through the ranks !!

[Dark Knight]

which ever way people voted, the die is cast, so lets just get on with it and make a future without close ties to federal Europe and the inexorable march into a European superstate
perhaps we, as a country have made the wrong choice, if so tough , its a democracy not a dictatorship and we will have to tough it out and make it work, if we have made the right choice then well done the UK and the naysaying remain camp may finally shut up and get behind making the UK a world leader again

I for one am heartily sick and bloody tired of pseudo economists and pseudo politicians telling others on here why they were wrong about all aspects of the vote and why the pseudo know it alls are right
the vote is over, the result in and from now on we go forward, not continually looking back over our shoulder with a rose tinted view of the halcyon days of being in the Eu or endlessly berating people who disagreed with you own opinion
as to the "golden generation", you have had it better than anyone ever has and for that you should be grateful but cut the crap, you voted with your eye on your pension, your shares and the value of your house, and as long as your pockets are lined and you can afford your middle class aspirations you don't give a toss if we are in or out of anything, you only care about your bank balance, so don't pretend eh
(Personal comment removed)

[Manoverboard]

Old vs young .... not at all.

When Sunderland Council Estate residents ( for example ) vote en mass the same way as rural Darzet then it has nought to do with age nor immigration. It perhaps has a whole lot more to do with the decimation of these areas by umpteen years of self interest legislation from Brussels.

Time to give it time and for a period of calm reflection.

Starting with the formation of a team, ideally from all parties who have a positive take on the future rather than a need to keep re-running the referendum, to head up the negotiations. Once we have identified the best way forward then progress will be made but to expect that detailed plans should already be in place is ridiculous because such plans would have been drawn up by too narrow a group.

[qbman1]

Ah, you want another lame coalition, then.....?

[Manoverboard]

Ah, you want another lame coalition, then.....?

No, I want involvement by a representative group of people who want to make Brexit work but only for the negotiation process.

[Gill W]

My last post on this subject is.

I am sick of hearing the young slating the so called oldie vote to come out and stitching their future up.
All the young people I have spoken to or listened to on media were all talking about how the vote would effect me, me,me.
My vote was for the future and hopefully security of the future generations of the country I love, yes my vote was for you the younger generation of this nation. I would like to think that I like many others of my generation helped to make Britain the wonderful, democratic and prosperous nation you now live in.

Being a retired person living off a pension that I worked hard for 50 years to receive I know times may get tough in the coming years for pensioners and workers alike but as in previous times of turmoil I hope you young ones rise to the occasion as we and our predecessors did before us.

Its time to stop moaning and get on with making a nation to be proud of again.

MY VOTE WAS FOR YOU

One bright little snowflake was interviewed at Glastonbury over the weekend. She was "distraught" at the outcome but admitted she didn't vote in the referendum. She thought she would be able to vote at Glastonbury - "I've brought me poll card and everyfink" !! I'm not sure any of us have a future with idiots like that coming up through the ranks !!

A woman said on another forum that she had wanted to remain, but wanted to be a narrow remain victory.

So she voted leave instead!now she's upset because we are leaving.

It's very disturbing that the result of the referendum was probably decided by the small percentage of idiots like this.

[Gill W]

which ever way people voted, the die is cast, so lets just get on with it and make a future without close ties to federal Europe and the inexorable march into a European superstate
perhaps we, as a country have made the wrong choice, if so tough , its a democracy not a dictatorship and we will have to tough it out and make it work, if we have made the right choice then well done the UK and the naysaying remain camp may finally shut up and get behind making the UK a world leader again

I for one am heartily sick and bl**dy tired of pseudo economists and pseudo politicians telling others on here why they were wrong about all aspects of the vote and why the pseudo know it alls are right
the vote is over, the result in and from now on we go forward, not continually looking back over our shoulder with a rose tinted view of the halcyon days of being in the Eu or endlessly berating people who disagreed with you own opinion
as to the "golden generation", you have had it better than anyone ever has and for that you should be grateful but cut the cr*p, you voted with your eye on your pension, your shares and the value of your house, and as long as your pockets are lined and you can afford your middle class aspirations you don't give a toss if we are in or out of anything, you only care about your bank balance, so don't pretend eh
oh and Frank, please stop lecturing people, you aren't really an expert on anything you were a salesman , not the PM or chancellor

Yes, they need to get on with it, but the Brexit Mp's don't seem in any hurry to push for this to be moved forward. If anything they are back-pedalling like mad!

I'd have thought they'd have wanted to get on with it, if they were really sincere in their Leave sentiments, so we don't have to keep paying the '350 million' each week to the EU.