Feeling sorry for a criminal...

[suespud]

Following on from another thread, I wondered how peole would feel if their child had commited a serious crime.
Would you stand by him/her and support them?
Would you feel sorry for them?

When my children were at the local comp, which is in the same street where I live, I came across a young man dealing drugs from his car in the lane at the back of my house.
I didnt know at the time, it was my friends's son and reported it to the Police.
I did find out within a few hours it was my friend's son and told my friend I had reported him.
I also allowed the police to use my house to watch this scumbag(from my loft bedroom window) dealing his drugs before they arrested him.
My friend agreed I had done the right thing, he was not aware his son was dealing drugs.
I would have reported my own children if I suspected anything along those lines too.
My friends son was arrested and charged, but my friend paid the bail and got him out of custody.
I would have left him there !!!
My friend and I are still friends, we see each other most days taking our grandchildren to school.
The son in question, did go to Jail, but turned his life around and now lives in Kent.

As for Oscar Pistorius.... not an ounce of sympthay would I have for him if he were my son.
Some people are just bad/evil.
I would feel nothing but shame.

[anniec]

Would stand by and support, but not sympathise (I think - would need to be actually in that position to find out what I'd actually do).

Good for you, you did the right thing.

[Boris+]

Suespud - in your story, you said that you saw a young man dealing drugs. It turned out to be your friend's son, but surely you know your friend's children? Couldn't have been much of a friend then?

I think that a good parent would have a pretty shrewd idea of what a child is up to, and that parent should try and be a good parent and sort things out before the law is broken.

The drug dealer in your story - well, it's a bit late for the parent to try and be a good parent after the event, they've sort of missed the boat (completely).

Drawing a comparison between your story about a drug dealer (who knew precisely what he was doing) and the Mnr Pistorius case is stupid - one was purposeful (eg selling drugs) and the other was a cross between an accident (Mnr Pistorius couldn't see his target, therefore he was just shooting to frighten intruders off) and self defence.

Not the same at all. Two completely different situations, and it's stupid to try and compare completely different things.

[Frank Manning]

Yes Sue you did exactly the right thing. A criminal is a criminal, and if you catch them in the act, so much the better, whoever they are.

I don't have an ounce of sympathy for Tony Blair, and as for that vile Alastair Campbell saying the BBC were to blame for the death of Dr David Kelly...words fail me. It is amazing how these people turn in oscar winning performances in lies and appeals for sympathy.

If you have had a son killed by someone's unlawful act you know the pain, and watching those poor people on TV last night we both felt tremendous sympathy for them; knowing the cavalier way that their childrens' lives were sacrificed for those big fat egos. Not that we didn't feel sympathy too when we watched the missiles crashing into Baghdad, randomly killing Iraquis. War and defence is one thing, unwarranted murder is just that. Murder.

[screwy]

After 25+ yrs as a Prison Officer, Sympathy for a criminal.....Never..!! In my time i have dealt with the Mad the Bad and the down right Evil. Now were coming out f the EU i wonder if it is at all possible that we could bring back the Death Penalty..? It was Jack Straw who signed away our rights to the EU. An imotive subject i know but one that needs to be addressed..in my opinion, the bleeding hearts would say otherwise.

Bunker time again.

[suespud]

Suespud - in your story, you said that you saw a young man dealing drugs. It turned out to be your friend's son, but surely you know your friend's children? Couldn't have been much of a friend then?

I think that a good parent would have a pretty shrewd idea of what a child is up to, and that parent should try and be a good parent and sort things out before the law is broken.

The drug dealer in your story - well, it's a bit late for the parent to try and be a good parent after the event, they've sort of missed the boat (completely).

Drawing a comparison between your story about a drug dealer (who knew precisely what he was doing) and the Mnr Pistorius case is stupid - one was purposeful (eg selling drugs) and the other was a cross between an accident (Mnr Pistorius couldn't see his target, therefore he was just shooting to frighten intruders off) and self defence.

Not the same at all. Two completely different situations, and it's stupid to try and compare completely different things.

The son in question was in a car,.. I couldnt actually see him, I could see what was happening . Before you ask..no I did not know the make of the car my friends son drove....

Ohhh BTW I am far from stupid......

[GillD46]

I subscribe to the "being cruel to be kind" philosophy, and in your situation, Sue, like to think I would have done exactly the same. Being caught and punished has been the trigger your friend's son needed. But even if he hadn't sorted himself out, it would be one less drug dealer off the street.

Some years ago, we thought we heard an intruder, wrongly as it happened, the very first thing we did was each check that the other was ok. So knowing the girlfrind was absent from the bedroom, repeated shooting doesn't sound like self defence to me!

[screwy]

I subscribe to the "being cruel to be kind" philosophy, and in your situation, Sue, like to think I would have done exactly the same. Being caught and punished has been the trigger your friend's son needed. But even if he hadn't sorted himself out, it would be one less drug dealer off the street.

Some years ago, we thought we heard an intruder, wrongly as it happened, the very first thing we did was each check that the other was ok. So knowing the girlfrind was absent from the bedroom, repeated shooting doesn't sound like self defence to me!

Ah, but this was South Africa where like in the States Gun Laws Rule in Favour of the Possesor..

[suespud]

Would stand by and support, but not sympathise (I think - would need to be actually in that position to find out what I'd actually do).

Good for you, you did the right thing.

Thank you.
I have never took a drug in my life, (tried to smoke a baked banana skin when I was 14) but apart from that..nothing. Never smoked either.

You know Annie, I am not sure I could even support..But like you say would have to actually be in that position to find out..

[oldbluefox]

I have no sympathy for criminals whatever their motivation, especially drug pushers.
My 90 year old mother was burgled three years ago while she was in the house and thankfully he didn't harm her but he cleared her out of all her jewellery, much of it of sentimental value. If the family could get its hands on the little scrote.................

[anniec]

Suespud - in your story, you said that you saw a young man dealing drugs. It turned out to be your friend's son, but surely you know your friend's children? Couldn't have been much of a friend then?

I think that a good parent would have a pretty shrewd idea of what a child is up to, and that parent should try and be a good parent and sort things out before the law is broken.

The drug dealer in your story - well, it's a bit late for the parent to try and be a good parent after the event, they've sort of missed the boat (completely).

Drawing a comparison between your story about a drug dealer (who knew precisely what he was doing) and the Mnr Pistorius case is stupid - one was purposeful (eg selling drugs) and the other was a cross between an accident (Mnr Pistorius couldn't see his target, therefore he was just shooting to frighten intruders off) and self defence.

Not the same at all. Two completely different situations, and it's stupid to try and compare completely different things.

I don't agree with your simplistic argument, but anyone wavering may dislike the rather personal tone.

[allatc]

When I saw the thread title I thought it was going to be about Tony Blair

[qbman1]

Now, nobody feels sorry for him !

[Boris+]

AnnieC - don't try and make trouble where there isn't any. There was no 'personal tone' etc., there's nothing in that to offend anyone; simply my view that making comparisons between unlike cases is a waste of time (in my opinion), and therefore not worth pursuing.

In my personal opinion (which I am entitled to), it's a stupid thing (eg not worth taking any further in my book) to compare (as they used to say in elementary mathematics lessons) fruit with veg. So, compare oranges with oranges if you want, but not oranges with carrots. They have the same colour (except for the purple carrots, naturally), but that is as far as it goes, qed, taking a comparison any further is stupid (eg a waste of time and effort).

So, calmly and rationally - I'll spell it out. You could compare (for instance) drug dealing offences with other drug dealing offences. But comparing a drug dealing offence (notwithstanding the fact that it's intended to make money for the dealer and their supplier) with this particular shooting - altogether different matters.

[Boris+]

Now, nobody feels sorry for him !

No, I don't feel sorry for Mr Blair - he was appraised of facts etc at the time, he made a decision and it's the public who've had to pay for it.

[suespud]

AnnieC - don't try and make trouble where there isn't any. There was no 'personal tone' etc., there's nothing in that to offend anyone; simply my view that making comparisons between unlike cases is a waste of time (in my opinion), and therefore not worth pursuing.

In my personal opinion (which I am entitled to), it's a stupid thing (eg not worth taking any further in my book) to compare (as they used to say in elementary mathematics lessons) fruit with veg. So, compare oranges with oranges if you want, but not oranges with carrots. They have the same colour (except for the purple carrots, naturally), but that is as far as it goes, qed, taking a comparison any further is stupid (eg a waste of time and effort).

So, calmly and rationally - I'll spell it out. You could compare (for instance) drug dealing offences with other drug dealing offences. But comparing a drug dealing offence (notwithstanding the fact that it's intended to make money for the dealer and their supplier) with this particular shooting - altogether different matters.

Boris, dont try and pretend there was no personal tone in your post, it was obviously there as soon as you commented on my friends son.

You then went on to mention how "stupid"it was to compare the post with the shooting.


I wasnt actually comparing them, the drug thing was something that happened to me and how I felt and dealt with it.
It is the only "criminal" thing I have experienced.

The mentioning of the shooting, was to open the discussion..if a person was in similar circumstances, how would they feel?
Your comments on the other thread made me wonder how others felt.

Just because YOU dont think something is not worth pursuing, others might not agree.

[Manoverboard]

AnnieC - don't try and make trouble where there isn't any. There was no 'personal tone' etc., there's nothing in that to offend anyone; simply my view that making comparisons between unlike cases is a waste of time (in my opinion), and therefore not worth pursuing.

In my personal opinion (which I am entitled to), it's a stupid thing (eg not worth taking any further in my book) to compare (as they used to say in elementary mathematics lessons) fruit with veg. So, compare oranges with oranges if you want, but not oranges with carrots. They have the same colour (except for the purple carrots, naturally), but that is as far as it goes, qed, taking a comparison any further is stupid (eg a waste of time and effort).

So, calmly and rationally - I'll spell it out. You could compare (for instance) drug dealing offences with other drug dealing offences. But comparing a drug dealing offence (notwithstanding the fact that it's intended to make money for the dealer and their supplier) with this particular shooting - altogether different matters.

Boris, dont try and pretend there was no personal tone in your post, it was obviously there as soon as you commented on my friends son.

I thought the post from Boris was intentionally personal, and oh so obvious.

If pursued the offending post(s) will be deleted.

Be good

[anniec]

AnnieC - don't try and make trouble where there isn't any. There was no 'personal tone' etc., there's nothing in that to offend anyone; simply my view that making comparisons between unlike cases is a waste of time (in my opinion), and therefore not worth pursuing.

In my personal opinion (which I am entitled to), it's a stupid thing (eg not worth taking any further in my book) to compare (as they used to say in elementary mathematics lessons) fruit with veg. So, compare oranges with oranges if you want, but not oranges with carrots. They have the same colour (except for the purple carrots, naturally), but that is as far as it goes, qed, taking a comparison any further is stupid (eg a waste of time and effort).

So, calmly and rationally - I'll spell it out. You could compare (for instance) drug dealing offences with other drug dealing offences. But comparing a drug dealing offence (notwithstanding the fact that it's intended to make money for the dealer and their supplier) with this particular shooting - altogether different matters.

Not in the habit of making trouble, Boris. We'll leave it there.

[qbman1]

AnnieC - don't try and make trouble where there isn't any. There was no 'personal tone' etc., there's nothing in that to offend anyone; simply my view that making comparisons between unlike cases is a waste of time (in my opinion), and therefore not worth pursuing.

In my personal opinion (which I am entitled to), it's a stupid thing (eg not worth taking any further in my book) to compare (as they used to say in elementary mathematics lessons) fruit with veg. So, compare oranges with oranges if you want, but not oranges with carrots. They have the same colour (except for the purple carrots, naturally), but that is as far as it goes, qed, taking a comparison any further is stupid (eg a waste of time and effort).

So, calmly and rationally - I'll spell it out. You could compare (for instance) drug dealing offences with other drug dealing offences. But comparing a drug dealing offence (notwithstanding the fact that it's intended to make money for the dealer and their supplier) with this particular shooting - altogether different matters.

Boris, dont try and pretend there was no personal tone in your post, it was obviously there as soon as you commented on my friends son.

I thought the post from Boris was intentionally personal, and oh so obvious.

If pursued the offending post(s) will be deleted.

Be good

I love it when you get all forceful !

[qbman1]

[Boris+]

Suespud - there was no personal intention, end of story. However, I trust you will forgive my confusion, which was caused by the fact that you mentioned that this thread was following on from another thread (which I took to the Pistorius sentencing thread). Then, you ended your opening post by commenting about Mnr Pistorius.

It's a tough one - the story you told. I would have thought that a person might know that the person they think is committing a crime is their friend's child - and it's a shame that you didn't recognise the drug dealer as your friend's son and possibly alert that friend. It's a pity that the person dealing drugs couldn't have been put right by his parents, and that now that person has a criminal record.

So, I suppose if I was witness to something like what happened in your story - maybe I would have reported it; but I don't think I would have allowed the police to use my property. You did as you saw fit.

If my child was accused of committing a serious crime I'd be supportive, but purely because that scenario is completely and utterly unlikely. Before anyone starts saying that's daft - well, it's very unlikely, unless it was something like an horrendous traffic accident (but then it would be caused by something like mechanical failure). Likelihood is that it wouldn't happen.

[suespud]

Suespud - there was no personal intention, end of story. However, I trust you will forgive my confusion, which was caused by the fact that you mentioned that this thread was following on from another thread (which I took to the Pistorius sentencing thread). Then, you ended your opening post by commenting about Mnr Pistorius.

It's a tough one - the story you told. I would have thought that a person might know that the person they think is committing a crime is their friend's child - and it's a shame that you didn't recognise the drug dealer as your friend's son and possibly alert that friend. It's a pity that the person dealing drugs couldn't have been put right by his parents, and that now that person has a criminal record.

So, I suppose if I was witness to something like what happened in your story - maybe I would have reported it; but I don't think I would have allowed the police to use my property. You did as you saw fit.

If my child was accused of committing a serious crime I'd be supportive, but purely because that scenario is completely and utterly unlikely. Before anyone starts saying that's daft - well, it's very unlikely, unless it was something like an horrendous traffic accident (but then it would be caused by something like mechanical failure). Likelihood is that it wouldn't happen.

Ok..lets get this straight...I couldn't see from the bedroom window, who was handing out the drugs...but it was obvious what they were doing.
My responsibility was to the children....yes children..some of them aged 12...who were buying these drugs, regardless of who was dealing them, son of a friend or not!
Even if I had of recognised him, I would still have contacted the police.
The police wanted photographic evidence, (which they got from my window over a couple of days) then caught him in the act.
I did do as I saw fit, I stand by my actions. I told my kids as I knew there could be repercussions.
There were...I got my car keyed,my tyres slashed and bags of pooh thrown over my yard wall.
Not by the dealer..but by the little addicts he had supplied !!!
My kids were fine.
But it brought the problem in the school to a head and the school and police tackled it.

[Boris+]

Well, I have to say, I feel sorry that you suffered all that .....

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[Manoverboard]

Still at it I notice ... tut tut ... this Topic is now Locked