Why is free movement of labour so sacred to the EU.

[Silver_Shiney]

They are coming everywhere. This is a problem FOR Europe, NOT of Europe. Many more are going to other countries than here.
Once we leave the EU we will be on our own and we will not be able to cope

I was referring to the "free movement" of Europeans, not refugees from Syria.

]
From what you say, it appears I am now able to say things about you that are untrue.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion but I find it troubling that you do not deny my point that you seem to be happy to allow our benefits system to be milked by foreigners

[Jack Staff]

They are coming everywhere. This is a problem FOR Europe, NOT of Europe. Many more are going to other countries than here.
Once we leave the EU we will be on our own and we will not be able to cope

I was referring to the "free movement" of Europeans, not refugees from Syria.

For many years the British government has proved itself incapable of limiting immigration from Europe, because of EU regulations and the rest of the world.
To cut immigration by (say) half the obvious answer is to the one thing we can do and leave the EU.
Unfortunately, that means Europeans then fall into the rest of the world category.
Taking back control is not as easy as that sound bite suggests.

[Jack Staff]

From what you say, it appears I am now able to say things about you that are untrue.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion but I find it troubling that you do not deny my point that you seem to be happy to allow our benefits system to be milked by foreigners

That very sentence of mine that you quote, when not taken out of context, is but one example of me denying it.
I suggest you revisit post #23 and read it in context.

[Silver_Shiney]

From what you say, it appears I am now able to say things about you that are untrue.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion but I find it troubling that you do not deny my point that you seem to be happy to allow our benefits system to be milked by foreigners

That very sentence of mine that you quote, when not taken out of context, is but one example of me denying it.
I suggest you revisit post #23 and read it in context.

Reading the comments above, everyone seems happy with the idea of people comin' over 'ere......
until the subject of benefits.
Benefits are decided by the UK government (though the EU does want us to treat other nationals the same as ours).

That's the posting that gives me the impression you seem to be happy for it to happen

[Jack Staff]

That's the posting that gives me the impression you seem to be happy for it to happen

You seem to be intent on crediting me with untruths.

[barney]

I think it's best that we all agree that Jack Staff is 100% wrong on this subject and move on.

[Silver_Shiney]

That's the posting that gives me the impression you seem to be happy for it to happen

You seem to be intent on crediting me with untruths.

Rubbish - do read what I said and stop twisting my words. Best we just ignore each other from now on.

[Jack Staff]

This seems to be the offending post (#10) that has caused so much upset. Let me see if I can clarify for some....

Reading the comments above, everyone seems happy with the idea of people comin' over 'ere......

I read the preceding posts and that's what I and other people said, admittedly not in those words, but that foreigners are basically welcome in our country, Those comments are still all there.
I was trying to move the topic along, so that it wasn't met with "Here we go again, round and round...." type comments, and we could have an interesting conversation.

until the subject of benefits.

I'm guessing this is the offending line. To me it is simply where I saw the conversation going next, once we had established that foreigners were here.
I fail to see how this line can be interpreted as "I am happy to see {us} hard working taxpayers to be fleeced" or anything like it.

Benefits are decided by the UK government (though the EU does want us to treat other nationals the same as ours).

My point here is that the EU does not decide benefits.

I hope we can now all agree that I didn't actually say anything controversial to get 100% wrong.

[Manoverboard]

controversial ... no, confrontational .... yes

[Stephen]

I feel we have been here before with this type of posting

[oldbluefox]

So far nobody has answered towny's original question, 'Why is free movement of labour so sacred to the EU?' unless I have missed something somewhere along the line.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Well the EU Commission argues Freedom of movement helps to fill job vacancies in many EU countries and gives employers a wider talent pool. But on that basis I don't understand why a country shouldn't say "no thank you, we'll manage without ta". But of course it's become very popular with the poorer countries with more people than jobs as a way of letting them go elsewhere and send their money home to support their economy. It was originally about freedom to move to work. It's only more recently become freedom to move full stop.

[barney]

Plus Merv, the damage done to the economies of the newer EU countries has been grossly under estimated.

I believe that the original forecast ref Poland was about 13k per annum moving out.

Of course we now know that the best part of a million Poles live in the UK alone.
Then there are the ones in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and so on.

It has knocked the Polish economy terribly. I don't think the experts saw that coming.

To try and answer the original question, it is one of the four pillars of the EU.
I'd hazard a wild guess that it is the first one to be dropped.
Within a few years, the million plus Syrian refugees allowed into Germany could get EU documentation.
Can you imagine many of the old Eastern Bloc countries saying welcome, come in !

I expect our new friend Jack will put us straight.

[towny44]

So far nobody has answered towny's original question, 'Why is free movement of labour so sacred to the EU?' unless I have missed something somewhere along the line.

Well certainly not a satisfactory answer, lots of beating around but no bush visible to speak of.

[oldbluefox]

I can see no logical reason for it to be such a sacred cow to the EU unless it's the political dogma to introduce a border free, open access EU community. One or two countries are already getting very twitchy about the Schengen Agreement so it does make one wonder why the free movement of labour is so important. It didn't seem to cause much by way of problems before the EU so are the problems being created by the interference of politicians and bureaucrats. They can always be counted upon for making a simple task complicated and daunting.

[gilly88]

the only reason that I feel they are so dogmatic is the old adage, divide and conqueror. the more of a melting pot of people there is, the less the nationalistic tendencies raise their heads, so making it easier to control the masses. dare I say, it used to be religion, which of course it still is in some regions of the world. now I have opened a can of worms, sorry!!

[Frank Manning]

can always be counted upon for making a simple task complicated and daunting. [/quote]

Y
The old adage of design by a committee, and in this case one whose members dont seem able to agree on much.

[barney]

Other EU Nations are starting to wake up and smell the coffee.

The pack of cards is collapsing.

Out of 28 member Nations
only FIVE are major net contributors
the rest are SUPPLICANTS...
looking for handouts,
open border emigration leading directly to >
> free housing,
> healthcare,
> education,
> and BENEFITS
...all of which they have not paid towards...
and, of course jobs in Britain's successful employment market away from youth unemployment of over 50% in some of their economies
Out of those five net EU contributors THREE are currently going bust under the insane 'one currency'/federalisation dogma of the unelected EU 'elite'
that leaves TWO
It doesn't take much imagination to understand why, faced with Britain and its contributions leaving, the unelected EU 'elite' are now floundering in disarray.
The EU is a submarxist ponzi scheme for scamming sovereignty and taxpayer's money, and using it to bribe gullible neighbouring Countries into 'joining its success'.
It is only, once on the inside, that former Soviet bloc countries like Hungary suddenly recognise the dead hand of the lack of democratic accountability, fake 'Parliament', and the obsessive bureaucratic control freakery by an unlected nepotistic pampered 'elite'...that reminds them of the Soviet nightmare they recently escaped from.


''The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.” -
Who said that ?
Mikhail Gorbachev, former President of the Soviet Union.

[gilly88]

Other EU Nations are starting to wake up and smell the coffee.

The pack of cards is collapsing.

Out of 28 member Nations
only FIVE are major net contributors
the rest are SUPPLICANTS...
looking for handouts,
open border emigration leading directly to >
> free housing,
> healthcare,
> education,
> and BENEFITS
...all of which they have not paid towards...
and, of course jobs in Britain's successful employment market away from youth unemployment of over 50% in some of their economies
Out of those five net EU contributors THREE are currently going bust under the insane 'one currency'/federalisation dogma of the unelected EU 'elite'
that leaves TWO
It doesn't take much imagination to understand why, faced with Britain and its contributions leaving, the unelected EU 'elite' are now floundering in disarray.
The EU is a submarxist ponzi scheme for scamming sovereignty and taxpayer's money, and using it to bribe gullible neighbouring Countries into 'joining its success'.
It is only, once on the inside, that former Soviet bloc countries like Hungary suddenly recognise the dead hand of the lack of democratic accountability, fake 'Parliament', and the obsessive bureaucratic control freakery by an unlected nepotistic pampered 'elite'...that reminds them of the Soviet nightmare they recently escaped from.


''The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.” -
Who said that ?
Mikhail Gorbachev, former President of the Soviet Union.

its taken a long time for the people of this country to wake up, but I believe they are getting there...hooray