Berlin Christmas Market Attack

[screwy]

Myself and the wife were horrified to see the Attack tonight on the Market in Berlin, We were there 2 Weeks ago in the same Market.

Our Thoughts are with the people of Berlin and the Families of the injured and those who Died.

R I P

[GillD46]

Absolutely. Yet another despicable act of hatred.

[Boris+]

Indeed this is horrific, and should not have happened - whatever the time of year.

[barney]

Absolutely horrific but unfortunately not unexpected.

Many security experts predicted this after Germany's decision to open their borders.

A wonderful gesture that has backfired on them, as expected.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We really need to see all our communities of whatever race or religion united so there is nowhere for these scum to hide.

[barney]

Unfortunately Merv, there's an elephant in the room.

Most commentators are reluctant to mention the fact that many from that part of the world are not like us and don't share western values.

I watched 'Muslims like us' on TV last week and was a bit surprised by some of their attitudes.

Five of the ten refused to go to a war memorial because it 'did not represent them'
When it was pointed out that all religions fought, they still wouldn't budge.
And these were all British born Muslims but with varying views.
One even insisted that all Shia Muslims should burn in hell !

Germany now has a million plus in their country with absolutely no idea who they are.

[Onelife]

"Mohammed; The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed). Al Bukhari vol 1:35"

....as long as we in this country and other countries allow the indoctrination of Muslim children into a religion where they can read text that condones the killing of none Muslims "if it is done in the name of allah" then we only have ourselves to blame for the atrocities that have taken place in Berlin.

If we want to make a start eradicating this evil then closing every Islamic school in this and every other none muslim country would be a good place to start.

[Silver_Shiney]

"Mohammed; The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed). Al Bukhari vol 1:35"

....as long as we in this country and other countries allow the indoctrination of Muslim children into a religion where they can read text that condones the killing of none Muslims "if it is done in the name of allah" then we only have ourselves to blame for the atrocities that have taken place in Berlin.

If we want to make a start eradicating this evil then closing every Islamic school in this and every other none muslim country would be a good place to start.

It's "funny" how those in the higher echelons of Islam who preach this evil won't don a Semtex waistcoat themselves - a point missed by their acolytes

[Meg 50]

Unfortunately Merv, there's an elephant in the room.

Most commentators are reluctant to mention the fact that many from that part of the world are not like us and don't share western values.

I watched 'Muslims like us' on TV last week and was a bit surprised by some of their attitudes.

Five of the ten refused to go to a war memorial because it 'did not represent them'
When it was pointed out that all religions fought, they still wouldn't budge.
And these were all British born Muslims but with varying views.
One even insisted that all Shia Muslims should burn in hell !

Germany now has a million plus in their country with absolutely no idea who they are.

Interesting though, I watched the 'religions round the Med' programme a year or so ago, and the most intolerant , least welcoming, weren't the Muslims, but the evangelical Christians. I was appalled at their intransigence

[oldbluefox]

the most intolerant , least welcoming, weren't the Muslims, but the evangelical Christians. I was appalled at their intransigence

One of the reasons why I practice my Christian values but no longer go to church and have little time for the Church as an institution. I know a good many decent, honest and dedicated Christians who are faithful to their beliefs. However I feel they are let down by the Church who preach love of one another, forgiveness, tolerance etc but are themselves totally intolerant of any belief other than their own.

Rant over and back on track,
I think it was a huge error in judgement for Mrs Merkel to allow refugees into Germany en masse without proper screening and safeguards. I dread to think how many extremists slipped in and are now laying low. I hope I am wrong but the killing of those innocent people in such a cowardly fashion puts a great strain on integrating the genuine refugees into the German society.

[Silver_Shiney]

Interesting though, I watched the 'religions round the Med' programme a year or so ago, and the most intolerant , least welcoming, weren't the Muslims, but the evangelical Christians. I was appalled at their intransigence

You mean "evangelical churchians", who were carefully selected for their unacceptable views in order to paint Christians in a bad light? It's easy to say you're an [evangelical] Christian, doesn't mean you are one.

[towny44]

Interesting though, I watched the 'religions round the Med' programme a year or so ago, and the most intolerant , least welcoming, weren't the Muslims, but the evangelical Christians. I was appalled at their intransigence

You mean "evangelical churchians", who were carefully selected for their unacceptable views in order to paint Christians in a bad light? It's easy to say you're an [evangelical] Christian, doesn't mean you are one.

You may well have a good point there Shiney, but that still does not mean that Christianity, or indeed any other religion, is the correct way forward in the modern world.
OBF's view would be closer to mine if he did not call his values Christian, the belief that tolerance, understanding, compassion and love for other people is the way that we should live our lives is a worthy aim, but wrapping that up with a theological name is no longer, IMO, the correct way.
It worked when the peasants were illiterate and ignorant of life outside their small world, but today when billions are well educated and knowledgeable about life and conditions worldwide, then old style religion is about as meaningful as BBC repeats.

[Meg 50]

Interesting though, I watched the 'religions round the Med' programme a year or so ago, and the most intolerant , least welcoming, weren't the Muslims, but the evangelical Christians. I was appalled at their intransigence

You mean "evangelical churchians", who were carefully selected for their unacceptable views in order to paint Christians in a bad light? It's easy to say you're an [evangelical] Christian, doesn't mean you are one.

True, but I was telling someone about them a few days later, and only realised too late that she also comes from the evangelical wing and agreed with everything they'd said religion-wise.... but was infinitely less intolerant

[Silver_Shiney]

I assume from that, John, that you mean that science is proving that there is no god? The fact is, science is more and more confirming Genesis - scientists, on the other hand, because of their a priori beliefs, would have us believe otherwise and, for the most part, they have succeeded.

Pure religion, according to the Bible, is caring for the widows and fatherless and I'm sure that even the high priest of the evolution movement, Richard Dawkins is kind to old ladies and helps animals across the road. Even he has said that he has mixed feelings about the [alleged] demise if Christianity as it "seems to be a bulwark against something far worse" and he notes that he has heard of no case where a Christian has committed the sort of atrocities we see today.

Don't forget, though, that Christians are still human and we make mistakes - God knows I do

Meg, I am of the "evangelical wing". We are called to love and accept all people, even those who hate us.

[Meg 50]

Meg, I am of the "evangelical wing". We are called to love and accept all people, even those who hate us.

So is this lady - so, as you said above, praps they looked for the most obnoxious batch they could find

[towny44]

Shiney, as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on the question of whether their was some divine outside element in the creation of Earth. Until there is some evidence of another planet with such diverse life forms as exist here, then I am inclined to think that something we don't understand had a hand in our creation. But even if there was, the notion of God and religion is very much man made and subject to all the flaws that humans display.
However I am happy for those who do believe in God to have this support in their life, but I still feel that human interpretation of their religion is one of the major causes of conflict in the world.

[oldbluefox]

towny, I believe in God and Christian values. Effectively I am a Christian but accept your point that these values should be inherent in all of us irrespective of religion or no religion.
My problem lies with some of those in the establishment whose "human interpretation of their religion is one of the major causes of conflict" at local level and in the world. Some of the decisions they make have nothing to do with "interpretation of their religion" at all, merely heavy handedness. In the churchyard where my in laws are buried a sign has appeared from the Diocese saying there should be no more artificial flowers put on graves. If any are found they will be removed. Disharmony created where none existed before.
The family of a freemason were banned from including a square and compasses on his gravestone because the CofE Consistory Court considered it 'inappropriate' despite many churches asking for, and receiving money from the Freemasons towards church maintenance. Hypocritical in my book.

[barney]

I'm amazed by that Foxy, considering East Kent Province has donated over £200K to Canterbury Cathedral.

We are going to a service of thanks in the Cathedral in February.

That stinks of hypocrisy.

[oldbluefox]

There are other examples, Barney, of the Church's ignorance and hypocrisy. Do you remember this?

[barney]

I didn't Foxy, but it made me chuckle.

Satanic ????

Freemasonry about as far away from satanic as you can get.

A perfect example of when someone doesn't understand something, but comments anyway.

Hardly a secret society
http://justaskone.org/

[oldbluefox]

I didn't Foxy, but it made me chuckle.

Satanic ????

Freemasonry about as far away from satanic as you can get.

A perfect example of when someone doesn't understand something, but comments anyway.

Hardly a secret society
http://justaskone.org/

Even more frightening when they are influential and hold high office.
I see the Germans have identified their suspect. Hopefully it won't be long until they find him. I remember the 15 members of the Baader-Meinhoff gang who had their portraits up in every bank and petrol station and each one was crossed off as they caught them. I'm afraid jail would be too kind for this character, if indeed he carried out this attack.

[Onelife]

The question as to what created the universe will, for the foreseeable future be pure conjecture, but for those of you who belive that it was something called "God" then l'm more than happy to go along with you...albiet for the sake of not coming up with a alternative word.

There is indisputable evidence that everything living today has done so through the evolutionary process, anyone who still believes their ancestral line started with Adam and Eve must imo be living in denial or/are the result of religious grooming.

A bit harsh maybe, but there is no doubt in my mind that all religions have derived from the need to control. It matters not which religion one belongs too, they all have one consistent message, one that revolves around fear and hope (The fear of the unknown and the hope of what could be) which when one thinks about it are the very tools that powerful people use to control others.... here endth the first lesson in life.

[oldbluefox]

I see the suspected perpetrator has been found and downed in Milan.

[Onelife]

I see the suspected perpetrator has been found and downed in Milan.

According to a Berlin spokesperson foxy he was "neutralised" ......which l think has a more clinical finality to this scumbags worthless life.

[oldbluefox]

I thought that was a lovely way of putting it - images of a quick spray and pffffffttt!! The lowlife should have been hung, drawn and quartered!!!!