Current Affairs

[Mervyn and Trish]

Sorry.............

[Onelife]

I've carefully considered it.








I'm still waiting, too....

Clearly devastated but I'm ready to move on...Anyone fancy some keefy chocolates

[Mervyn and Trish]

I've heard about your never to be delivered chocolates

[colin parry]

I see MPs have packed up for Easter. I was under the impression it was still a fortnight away!

[Onelife]

I've been giving this Scotish referendum saga some thought....Whilst we don't have to give them another referendum l am starting to think perhaps it is something we should now be considering and not leave it until Mrs Krankie feels she can get the backing of the Scotish people.

None of us know what the economic climate will be in, let's say 15 months time, but if, as l expect we start feeling the pinch of economic uncertainty l wonder if by delaying this decision we are falling into a trap that could lead to the break up of the UK. Of course we are not legally bound to succumb to the SNP's wishes but people power can be a very powerful persuader 'should the pinch come a little harder than we are expecting' ...A few million disgruntled Robert the Bruce's lifting up their kilts could just be enough to force the Goverment into another independence referendum.

Whilst it would be another distraction to the Brexit process l think by allowing a vote 'now' we stand a good chance of repeating a 'no vote' to Scotish independence.... give it another 15 months we could be looking at a whole load of Scotish bollocks demanding a vote..and it won't be a pretty sight ...especially so if NI and Wales join them.

We could 'on our terms' put this to bed once and for all.

Be assured l shall be writing to my good friend Theresa tomorrow.

Sleep well.

[wolfie]

My understanding is that the country was asked to vote in a referendum as to whether or not we stayed in a corrupt political union.

It was a non binding poll. I do not believe the E.U. is anymore corrupt than Westminster (nowhere is perfect).

Having given that decision, it is then up to the government to carry out the wishes of the majority.

It is up to the government to protect the country and it's people.

That is all the mandate that is needed.

We live in a parliamentary democracy. It all has to go through parliament. They are 'superior' to the 'will of the people'.
If asked, the people would vote for, say, free chocolate. Should we ask them and then implement the decision?

I take my hat off to the Prime Minister who is (albeit slowly) carrying out those wishes, even though she did not agree with them.

She is riding a tiger for her own self interest and trying to keep her party together. Her position is untenable in the long term.

HI there, JS.

How's about something other than political posts ? It would be good to hear more, or even something about cruising from you. I can't find any such posts by you on cruising? Such as, your preferred cruise line, cruise lines I have cruised with, reviews on ports and so much more to do with cruising.

There is so much more than political chat on here, so maybe start a new thread,.............. you could call it, The Political Post/column/thread/...................sorry one of those just may be copyrighted on another forum.
Looking forward to your future contributions on cruising and not just politics, though that is also quite interesting.

[Jack Staff]

I've been giving this Scotish referendum saga some thought....Whilst we don't have to give them another referendum l am starting to think perhaps it is something we should now be considering and not leave it until Mrs Krankie feels she can get the backing of the Scotish people.

None of us know what the economic climate will be in, let's say 15 months time, but if, as l expect we start feeling the pinch of economic uncertainty l wonder if by delaying this decision we are falling into a trap that could lead to the break up of the UK. Of course we are not legally bound to succumb to the SNP's wishes but people power can be a very powerful persuader 'should the pinch come a little harder than we are expecting' ...A few million disgruntled Robert the Bruce's lifting up their kilts could just be enough to force the Goverment into another independence referendum.

Whilst it would be another distraction to the Brexit process l think by allowing a vote 'now' we stand a good chance of repeating a 'no vote' to Scotish independence.... give it another 15 months we could be looking at a whole load of Scotish bollocks demanding a vote..and it won't be a pretty sight ...especially so if NI and Wales join them.

We could 'on our terms' put this to bed once and for all.

Be assured l shall be writing to my good friend Theresa tomorrow.

Sleep well.

".......let's say 15 months time, but if, as l expect we start feeling the pinch of economic uncertainty......" - You think?

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.
The Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so as to ensure their future in the EU, and voted against Brexit in 2016.
We have always said the future of Northern Ireland is up to them. Re-unification is now on the cards because of Brexit.
The Gibraltarians desperately want to remain British, but the future Brexit negotiations leave this very much in doubt.

So no Scotland, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar (Wales is still thinking about it).

So the real Brexiter question, do you want to make this country great again, or do you want Brexit?

Sleep tight.

[Jack Staff]

HI there, JS.

How's about something other than political posts ? It would be good to hear more, or even something about cruising from you. I can't find any such posts by you on cruising? Such as, your preferred cruise line, cruise lines I have cruised with, reviews on ports and so much more to do with cruising.

Princess
P&O and Princess
Port Said sucks

There is so much more than political chat on here, so maybe start a new thread,.............. you could call it, The Political Post/column/thread/...................sorry one of those just may be copyrighted on another forum.
Looking forward to your future contributions on cruising and not just politics, though that is also quite interesting.

I took the photo that is my profile pic.
While chatting with my regular cruising buddies they said we are members of this forum and there are a bunch of guys on there that 'have certain views', you enjoy a good political discussion, you should join and inform them that there are others, who may not contribute, but who have different views.

[Stephen]

BREAKING NEWS

Government makes U turn on Brexit. We are staying in the EU

[Happydays]

BREAKING NEWS

Government makes U turn on Brexit. We are staying in the EU

April Fool......... I hope!

[oldbluefox]

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.

This talk is coming from Mrs Krankie. Mrs May disagrees

The Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so as to ensure their future in the EU, and voted against Brexit in 2016.

The majority of Scots, given a choice, did vote to remain in the EU. However, because they chose Remain does not necessarily mean they were voting against Brexit any more than if I chose a bar of chocolate instead of ice cream I dislike ice cream.

We have always said the future of Northern Ireland is up to them. Re-unification is now on the cards because of Brexit.

Sinn Fein always have re-unification on the agenda. The government have already stated their views on open borders.

The Gibraltarians desperately want to remain British, but the future Brexit negotiations leave this very much in doubt.

Don't believe everything Donald Tusk or the Spanish say about Gibraltar. Gibraltar will always be a thorn in Spain's side but Brexit seems to be a good excuse to raise the issue again. Gibraltarians are unequivocal in remaining British and, as such, the issue is not open to debate.

So no Scotland, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar (Wales is still thinking about it).

Pessimists R Us......................

[oldbluefox]

I am always mystified by the Remainers assertion that we need another referendum because 'the Brexiters didn't know what they were voting for'.
That argument assumes that those who voted to Remain did know.
How very clever of them or is this just another example of their arrogance in chasing a lost cause?

[Onelife]

I've been giving this Scotish referendum saga some thought....Whilst we don't have to give them another referendum l am starting to think perhaps it is something we should now be considering and not leave it until Mrs Krankie feels she can get the backing of the Scotish people.

None of us know what the economic climate will be in, let's say 15 months time, but if, as l expect we start feeling the pinch of economic uncertainty l wonder if by delaying this decision we are falling into a trap that could lead to the break up of the UK. Of course we are not legally bound to succumb to the SNP's wishes but people power can be a very powerful persuader 'should the pinch come a little harder than we are expecting' ...A few million disgruntled Robert the Bruce's lifting up their kilts could just be enough to force the Goverment into another independence referendum.

Whilst it would be another distraction to the Brexit process l think by allowing a vote 'now' we stand a good chance of repeating a 'no vote' to Scotish independence.... give it another 15 months we could be looking at a whole load of Scotish bollocks demanding a vote..and it won't be a pretty sight ...especially so if NI and Wales join them.

We could 'on our terms' put this to bed once and for all.

Be assured l shall be writing to my good friend Theresa tomorrow.

Sleep well.

".......let's say 15 months time, but if, as l expect we start feeling the pinch of economic uncertainty......" - You think?

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.
The Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so as to ensure their future in the EU, and voted against Brexit in 2016.
We have always said the future of Northern Ireland is up to them. Re-unification is now on the cards because of Brexit.
The Gibraltarians desperately want to remain British, but the future Brexit negotiations leave this very much in doubt.

So no Scotland, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar (Wales is still thinking about it).

So the real Brexiter question, do you want to make this country great again, or do you want Brexit?

Sleep tight.

Hi flashbjack,

As far as l am concerned 'Great Britain' has always been 'Great' but Yes we can make it even greater once we have released ourselves from the shackles of the EU.

[Jack Staff]

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.

This talk is coming from Mrs Krankie. Mrs May disagrees

This talk is now coming from the democratically elected government of Scotland.
Mrs. May can disagree all she wants, she now has little choice.

The Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so as to ensure their future in the EU, and voted against Brexit in 2016.

The majority of Scots, given a choice, did vote to remain in the EU. However, because they chose Remain does not necessarily mean they were voting against Brexit any more than if I chose a bar of chocolate instead of ice cream I dislike ice cream.

The Scots voted against Brexit in 2016. I have no idea about their choice of confectionery.
We either have Scotland or Brexit.

We have always said the future of Northern Ireland is up to them. Re-unification is now on the cards because of Brexit.

Sinn Fein always have re-unification on the agenda. The government have already stated their views on open borders.

The Governments views on open borders are impossible if they are to deliver the Brexit you want.
We either have Northern Ireland or Brexit.

The Gibraltarians desperately want to remain British, but the future Brexit negotiations leave this very much in doubt.

Don't believe everything Donald Tusk or the Spanish say about Gibraltar. Gibraltar will always be a thorn in Spain's side but Brexit seems to be a good excuse to raise the issue again. Gibraltarians are unequivocal in remaining British and, as such, the issue is not open to debate.

Everything is now open to debate. The three million E.U. nationals here under threat of removal.Withdrawing GCHQ information, threatening the lives of Europeans on the continent. The U.K. government has already proved it wants to fight dirty. Is it not fair that Spain sinks to our level?

So no Scotland, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar (Wales is still thinking about it).

Pessimists R Us......................

I wonder what the Argentinians are thinking about all this.

[Jack Staff]

I am always mystified by the Remainers assertion that we need another referendum because 'the Brexiters didn't know what they were voting for'.

I for one do not want another referendum. Certainly not after all the problems the 2016 one is causing.

That argument assumes that those who voted to Remain did know.

I never thought things would go as badly as they are heading at the moment.

How very clever of them or is this just another example of their arrogance in chasing a lost cause?

The future prosperity of my country can never be a lost cause.

[Jack Staff]

Hi flashbjack,

As far as l am concerned 'Great Britain' has always been 'Great' but Yes we can make it even greater once we have released ourselves from the shackles of the EU.

Once we lose Scotland the term 'Great Britain' will only refer to the island that we share with Scotland.
England will just be a minor player on the edge of the continent of Europe.
I don't think that's what you voted for.

[towny44]

Jack you keep finding comments and articles written by pro remainers highlighting the dangers of Brexit, but what else would you expect them to say. You also keep raising the issue which you, as a remainer, believe was the main driver for voting for Brexit, which was immigration.
Well let me give you my major reasons for voting to leave the EU.

Sovereignty. The drive by the major economies for greater political and federal union which is linked to sovereignty, that much maligned topic by remainers to label brexiteers as little Englanders, but in reality for me just the feeling that decisions were increasingly being made by an organisation that I felt more and more estranged from. I feel myself to be Huddersfield Town first, Yorkshire 2nd, English 3rd, British 4th and European primarily by reason of Geography. That’s not say that I don’t feel any empathy with other Europeans I do, I enjoy my holidays abroad and appreciate the different climates, topography and cultures, and these differences are one of the reasons that I don’t believe a European state would work.

The Euro. Since our exit from the ERM I have become increasingly disillusioned with a “one size fits all” monetary system like the Euro, it is clear that the desire to have the same tight fixed monetary policies for all Eurozone countries is not yet working, and I agree with the view that it never will. This has led to financial crises in Greece, Italy and most other Mediterranean economies, and the impact that the Euro system has had on their unemployment especially in the youth sector has been horrendous. I agree that we are not in the Euro and never would have been even if we had stayed in the EU, however the problems of the Euro seemed to have overshadowed most other issues, and even if we were not liable to contribute directly to any of the bailouts, we were certainly contributing to the increased bureaucracy this was creating.

Immigration. For me this was an issue of the consequences of higher immigration and the stress this places on public services, and whether it led to a large enough increase in economic activity to be able to afford the increases in health, education and social welfare spending that it produced. In addition we often appeared to be hamstrung by EU legislation when it came to deporting criminals from EU areas, not to mention the impossibility of vetting their immigration to check for criminal records. I accept that some sectors now depend on cheap EU immigration, from the vegetable suppliers of Lincolnshire, through the hotel and restaurant trades, care homes and the health service. I doubt we could or would want to stop this, at least in the medium term, but I want us to decide who comes in, how long their work permit extends and when they should become eligible for any welfare payments.

These were some of the issues that David Cameron tried to find solutions to, but the EU concessions were so tiny and derisory that he should have been embarrassed to try and sell it to us. If the above issues had been satisfactorily addressed by the EU, then I would have been happy to vote remain because I agree that there are significant trade benefits to membership, which is what I and many others felt we signed up to in the EEC referendum of 1975.

I just have to hope that my government can negotiate a reasonable trade deal with the EU, which allows the maximum free trade access with the minimum concessions against my above concerns.

[oldbluefox]

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.

This talk is coming from Mrs Krankie. Mrs May disagrees

This talk is now coming from the democratically elected government of Scotland.
Mrs. May can disagree all she wants, she now has little choice.

As is usual I find your arguments evasive and confused. This from the Financial Times:
"By precedent, the UK parliament has to approve the date of a referendum and it could refuse to authorise a vote full stop". Mrs May has not refused Scotland a referendum but has said it will only happen after Brexit. It is only those who oppose May who manipulate the situation to say she has refused the Scots their say.

[Jack Staff]

Jack you keep finding comments and articles written by pro remainers highlighting the dangers of Brexit, but what else would you expect them to say. You also keep raising the issue which you, as a remainer, believe was the main driver for voting for Brexit, which was immigration.
Well let me give you my major reasons for voting to leave the EU.

Sovereignty. The drive by the major economies for greater political and federal union which is linked to sovereignty, that much maligned topic by remainers to label brexiteers as little Englanders, but in reality for me just the feeling that decisions were increasingly being made by an organisation that I felt more and more estranged from. I feel myself to be Huddersfield Town first, Yorkshire 2nd, English 3rd, British 4th and European primarily by reason of Geography. That’s not say that I don’t feel any empathy with other Europeans I do, I enjoy my holidays abroad and appreciate the different climates, topography and cultures, and these differences are one of the reasons that I don’t believe a European state would work.

The Euro. Since our exit from the ERM I have become increasingly disillusioned with a “one size fits all” monetary system like the Euro, it is clear that the desire to have the same tight fixed monetary policies for all Eurozone countries is not yet working, and I agree with the view that it never will. This has led to financial crises in Greece, Italy and most other Mediterranean economies, and the impact that the Euro system has had on their unemployment especially in the youth sector has been horrendous. I agree that we are not in the Euro and never would have been even if we had stayed in the EU, however the problems of the Euro seemed to have overshadowed most other issues, and even if we were not liable to contribute directly to any of the bailouts, we were certainly contributing to the increased bureaucracy this was creating.

Immigration. For me this was an issue of the consequences of higher immigration and the stress this places on public services, and whether it led to a large enough increase in economic activity to be able to afford the increases in health, education and social welfare spending that it produced. In addition we often appeared to be hamstrung by EU legislation when it came to deporting criminals from EU areas, not to mention the impossibility of vetting their immigration to check for criminal records. I accept that some sectors now depend on cheap EU immigration, from the vegetable suppliers of Lincolnshire, through the hotel and restaurant trades, care homes and the health service. I doubt we could or would want to stop this, at least in the medium term, but I want us to decide who comes in, how long their work permit extends and when they should become eligible for any welfare payments.

These were some of the issues that David Cameron tried to find solutions to, but the EU concessions were so tiny and derisory that he should have been embarrassed to try and sell it to us. If the above issues had been satisfactorily addressed by the EU, then I would have been happy to vote remain because I agree that there are significant trade benefits to membership, which is what I and many others felt we signed up to in the EEC referendum of 1975.

I just have to hope that my government can negotiate a reasonable trade deal with the EU, which allows the maximum free trade access with the minimum concessions against my above concerns.

Thank you for an interesting post.I was going to counter line by line, but it is nice and sunny here (between the showers) so I must get outside. But just a few points:
I like to give an alternative to the 'facts' that appear in the Brexiter press.This, I believe is where immigration is the main driver for voting for Brexit is.
We never lost sovereignty, I know because the government stated so in its' white paper.
The Euro is an interesting subject. I take your point, but the same can be said about the Pound in places like London and deprived areas of the North or even Cornwall. I actually think that when the Pound reaches parity with the Euro (soon) if the E.U. were to rename the Euro to the Pound, all the Brexiters hatred for it would disappear (and I'm not just saying that because today is 1st April!).
Immigration and Brexit is pointless. Theresa May, as Home Secretary, was unable to control immigration from 'the rest of the world'. Brexit just means that Europeans will also be in that group.
I think David Cameron was an embarrassment.
It is not just about a trade deal with the E.U. We currently trade with the rest of the world 'via' the E.U. In two years time, we will have no trade deals with anyone at all. Not Canada, not Australia, not NZ, nobody.
We will be so desperate for deals (with anyone) we will have to accept terms that will make you cringe.

[Jack Staff]

The talk of IndyRef2 is about having a vote in eighteen months time.

This talk is coming from Mrs Krankie. Mrs May disagrees

This talk is now coming from the democratically elected government of Scotland.
Mrs. May can disagree all she wants, she now has little choice.

As is usual I find your arguments evasive and confused. This from the Financial Times:
"By precedent, the UK parliament has to approve the date of a referendum and it could refuse to authorise a vote full stop". Mrs May has not refused Scotland a referendum but has said it will only happen after Brexit. It is only those who oppose May who manipulate the situation to say she has refused the Scots their say.

I believe you are technically correct. I did say little choice. Mrs.May can refuse the Scots, causing a constitutional crisis at just the time she will be trying to extricate us from the E.U. She is quite correct to say "Now is not the right time"!
Article 50 must be triggered according to the country's constitution. I wonder if the E.U. will actually let us leave if our constitution is in a mess at the conclusion of the two years, just a thought.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Interesting thing about the attempt by the Spanish to hijack the Brexit negotiations to disadvantage Gibraltar and the threat they could cut it off by closing their air space.

Well they already do! And that's when they're supposed to be our mates in the EU. Just another reason the EU is a joke.

How do I know this? I asked a pilot why Gibraltar is one of the most dangerous airports in the world when the runway is long, flat and had good visibility? He told me. Because the Spanish deny access to Spanish airspace to planes using the airport. Yes indeed. Passengers are put at increased and unnecessary risk deliberately!

So how do we deal with the Spanish idea that Gibraltar is not included in any deal done between the EU and Europe? My suggestion is simple. Tell them we'll discuss it in the same meeting as any future access for Spanish fishing vessels to UK waters. That should focus their minds.

[Jack Staff]

Interesting thing about the attempt by the Spanish to hijack the Brexit negotiations to disadvantage Gibraltar and the threat they could cut it off by closing their air space.

Well they already do! And that's when they're supposed to be our mates in the EU. Just another reason the EU is a joke.

How do I know this? I asked a pilot why Gibraltar is one of the most dangerous airports in the world when the runway is long, flat and had good visibility? He told me. Because the Spanish deny access to Spanish airspace to planes using the airport. Yes indeed. Passengers are put at increased and unnecessary risk deliberately!

So how do we deal with the Spanish idea that Gibraltar is not included in any deal done between the EU and Europe? My suggestion is simple. Tell them we'll discuss it in the same meeting as any future access for Spanish fishing vessels to UK waters. That should focus their minds.

The British fishing industry has been poorly represented in Europe.....
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/pres ... r-20150408
http://descrier.co.uk/politics/brexit-n ... -meetings/
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/4 ... story.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... nt-8302643
https://www.ft.com/content/85563e82-8f4 ... 144feab7de

[Mervyn and Trish]

Thanks Jack.

Knew I could count on you. And knew your response would include the arch remoaner, the FT.

My suggestion stands ta.

Nigel Farage won't be conducting the negotiations. And the EU parliament and will soon be irrelevant.

We're leaving. Didn't you know?

[Stephen]

I blame the sprouts

[Jack Staff]

Thanks Jack.

Knew I could count on you. And knew your response would include the arch remoaner, the FT.

My suggestion stands ta.

Nigel Farage won't be conducting the negotiations. And the EU parliament and will soon be irrelevant.

We're leaving. Didn't you know?

You want to take us back to the glory days before the E.U. ?
When we fought a fishing war with Iceland? Yeah, we lost.

We are not leaving for two years yet. A week is a long time in politics. Didn't you know?