Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

... a ' kind of ' is quite likely but did Winston really envisage and desire a version that would essentially be controlled by Germany.

I doubt it.

No, he thought we British had the gumption to stand our corner rather than just giving them the continent as we are going to now.

Which is exactly what Brexit is all about.............................

[Manoverboard]

... a ' kind of ' is quite likely but did Winston really envisage and desire a version that would essentially be controlled by Germany.

I doubt it.

No, he thought we British had the gumption to stand our corner rather than just giving them the continent as we are going to now.

In reality they already have control of the continent but now we are leaving the Germans will have to foot the entire bill if they intend to keep it ... can't see that being a popular option in the eyes of the people of Germany.

[Jack Staff]

In reality they already have control of the continent but now we are leaving the Germans will have to foot the entire bill if they intend to keep it ... can't see that being a popular option in the eyes of the people of Germany.

Now I'm really confused. Are you saying the Germans have bought Europe with our money????

[Jack Staff]

... a ' kind of ' is quite likely but did Winston really envisage and desire a version that would essentially be controlled by Germany.

I doubt it.

No, he thought we British had the gumption to stand our corner rather than just giving them the continent as we are going to now.

Which is exactly what Brexit is all about.............................

You mean the Dunkirk spirit? The last time we ran away from Europe.

[Stephen]

For gawds sake give it a rest. Your like a dog with a bone.

[CaroleF]

Agree Stephen. You can't argue sensibly with some people. If we hadn't managed to get our troops back after Dunkirk we would have been lost. My father was one of those who 'ran away' and after several days of dodging the guns managed to get back to England on a British Rail Steamer ship.

[Jack Staff]

For gawds sake give it a rest. Your like a dog with a bone.

You guys have been at it for forty one years. My turn now.

[Jack Staff]

Agree Stephen. You can't argue sensibly with some people. If we hadn't managed to get our troops back after Dunkirk we would have been lost. My father was one of those who 'ran away' and after several days of dodging the guns managed to get back to England on a British Rail Steamer ship.

My father too was in the war. He fought against the right wing politics that swept across Europe the same as your father did.
I feel I owe it to his legacy to carry on that fight to preserve what he and his generation achieved (but in no way do I feel my efforts are comparable).

So Carole, sensibly, what are we going to gain from this mess?

Sovereignty? The Government in a white paper stated “The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.” (in other words it suited the British government(s) to blame the EU for any of our local problems)

Immigration control? In her record number of years as Home Secretary, Theresa May failed to implement the immigration restrictions (on E.U. citizens) that are used by most other E.U. countries such a France and Germany. The immigration of Syrian refugees to Germany was at their invitation.

I have been asking for a year now, what are we going to gain from Brexit? If you could tell me something, anything, that might be better in future I may be able change my mind on this fiasco.

[oldbluefox]

I think the benefits of Brexit are very apparent and don't really need us to go over them again and again. Of course if you close your ears that is not something we can change.
We know what we get from being in the EU and can see where future membership of the EU will be taking us. Like many others I voted to join the Common Market, not a federal Europe and the sooner we disentangle ourselves from this extravagance of an organisation the better.

[Jack Staff]

I think the benefits of Brexit are very apparent and don't really need us to go over them again and again. Of course if you close your ears that is not something we can change.

I'm sorry I must have missed those posts and as is obvious from my posts the benefits of Brexit still elude me.
Please can you do me the favour of explaining just once more. I and I am very sure most other members of the forum will be most grateful as it could mean that we might finally be able talk about something else.
My ears are open.

[oldbluefox]

There are currently 1192 posts for you to read. If you don't know what the arguments for Brexit are by now, you never will. And if you don't know what the arguments are, for and against Brexit, how could you vote in the referendum? To think the likes of Tiny Tim accuse Brexiteers of not knowing what they were voting for!!!!
A question for you, Jack................
Why does the EU persist in having the 'Travelling circus' whereby they move parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month at a cost of £130 million? Do you think this is money well spent?
Just one of the extravagances of the EU.

[Jack Staff]

There are currently 1192 posts for you to read. If you don't know what the arguments for Brexit are by now, you never will. And if you don't know what the arguments are, for and against Brexit, how could you vote in the referendum? To think the likes of Tiny Tim accuse Brexiteers of not knowing what they were voting for!!!!
A question for you, Jack................
Why does the EU persist in having the 'Travelling circus' whereby they move parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month at a cost of £130 million? Do you think this is money well spent?
Just one of the extravagances of the EU.

I think I have read most, if not all of those posts. I even wrote a few myself. You are correct, if you don't tell me the arguments for Brexit I guess I will never know, because no one else can come up with a reason either.
I am very well aware of the arguments against Brexit, which enabled me to place a reasoned vote last June.

I still do not know what the Brexiters voted for (except the £350m for the NHS, which we now know was a lie), so I ask you again, please can you do me the favour of explaining just once more.

I have never said the EU is perfect. There are a number of things that could do with attention. These things will be resolved in time, but not now necessarily with our input and so not in our favour.

On your specific question, of course I do not think it is money well spent and the EU agree. Strasbourg was picked as it symbolised peace in Europe, having been fought over by the French and Germans to many times. That situation is now purely down to the French, who want to maintain an overblown sense of their importance (like some other countries I could mention).

[Cunard Princess]

For people like me, who have dipped in and out of this thread and do not have such a deep understanding ........please, please please tell me what the benefits are going to be?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Seems you and Call Me Dave must be buddies Jack. He never understood the arguments for Brexit either and utterly failed to address them in either his negotiations with the EU or the Remain campaign.

[barney]

Please tell us jack, what do you consider to be a sustainable population for the UK? 80 million ? 100 million? Surely you are aware of the EU expansion policy? Are you lucky enough to live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration? My local roads are gridlocked due to population explosion. Kent need to find 23 thousand extra school places by 2020.

[Jack Staff]

Seems you and Call Me Dave must be buddies Jack. He never understood the arguments for Brexit either and utterly failed to address them in either his negotiations with the EU or the Remain campaign.

Cameron and I could never be buddies. But you are correct in that he never understood the arguments for Brexit, simply because there are none. Unless of course you have one?
His actions were purely to try and hold the Conservative party together. While he and his successor seem to have temporarily avoided that split, it has created a divided and poorer country.

[oldbluefox]

A bit of reading matter for Jack................
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... inationals
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 04016.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... city-jobs/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39356664

...............................just for starters

[Jack Staff]

Please tell us jack, what do you consider to be a sustainable population for the UK? 80 million ? 100 million? Surely you are aware of the EU expansion policy? Are you lucky enough to live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration? My local roads are gridlocked due to population explosion. Kent need to find 23 thousand extra school places by 2020.

What on Earth has this got to do with world population? (unintended pun)

The population is rising everywhere, due to sustainable food supplies and the lack of (major) wars. Something the EU has been very successful at.
Are you suggesting that Europe would be better when we are all fighting over the last sandwich?

EU expansion is about territory, yes the population rises as the area of the Union rises.

Unfortunately I do live in an area that has not been swamped with EU immigration. Here (Blukip territory) there are many people who are scared of foreigners because they simply do not know any.

Kent better get on and build those schools then. How are they going to do that without Polish builders I wonder.

[Jack Staff]

A bit of reading matter for Jack................
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... inationals

Opinion column written by a guy who lead the successful business campaign to leave the EU, as Chairman of the Vote Leave Business Council and is now Co Chairman of Leave means Leave a lobby group set up to promote a "clean" Brexit. Impartial? I think not.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 04016.html

Again an opinion piece, written in June 2016, before all the lies were exposed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... city-jobs/

Being a tight git, I do not subscribe to the Torygraph, but from what I can see that article says as far as Lloyds of London are concerned, they will only be losing a small number of jobs? So what Brexit benefit are you trying to impart?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39356664

The BBC has not done well lately for impartiality. Here they are reporting what The Times and The Daily Telegraph have described as a "right-of-centre think-tank" and The Times has described Civitas as an ally of former Education Secretary Michael Gove. So I would not really trust the contents.

...............................just for starters

You will have to try harder than that.

Come on, give me a Brexit benefit.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Here's one Jack. If you hate it so much perhaps you'll move to Belgium

[Jack Staff]

Here's one Jack. If you hate it so much perhaps you'll move to Belgium

Would love to, but because of Brexit I will be unable.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Go now Jack. The door's not shut yet.

[Jack Staff]

Go now Jack. The door's not shut yet.

But I would have to return by April 1st 2019.

[Mervyn and Trish]

No one has said that yet. Negotiations not started. But the EU borders are such a shambles they'd never find you anyway. And here's the thing. Did you know that people actually travelled around Europe before the EU was invented? Shocking eh?

[Jack Staff]

No one has said that yet. Negotiations not started. But the EU borders are such a shambles they'd never find you anyway. And here's the thing. Did you know that people actually travelled around Europe before the EU was invented? Shocking eh?

But not to live, work, study, retire. We are losing the right to do all that.